2003 3.4 GLS Alero Won't Start! HELP please!
 

So my car has been sitting in the garage for a few days now because of an issue that has "seemed" to have happened all at once. Saturday (and everyday before this) I drove my car like normal and actually went on a small 175mi round trip with it. The car ran great! Come home and park the car for about 2 hours, get back in, make a run to the store (everythings still good). Park the car for the night and wake up the next morning to go to work and all I get is a car that won't start (just keeps cranking and cranking). So I had to take the truck. Get back from work, try starting the car again and it starts right up multiple times over and over again. So I wait about an hour or so and try it again...the car starts again. Thinking everything was all good I left it alone and planned on taking to work the next morning....You guessed it..Wouldn't start! Push the car into the garage and begin diagnosing the issue:

-Turn the key on, wait for dash lights and listen for fuel pump to run (CHECK)
-Next pulled and tested the three front facing spark plugs for spark...cylinders 1,4,5 I believe (No Spark)
-Pulled the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and brought it down to Advanced Auto and had them test it. They ran multiple tests over and over again to get it good and hot (all tests Green lit meaning the ICM was working fine)
-Next I reinstalled the ICM and inspected the coil packs as I reassembled the DIS (No Cracks, weather marks, wetness, etc.)
-Purchased a Crankshaft Position Sensor (CPS) and replaced that (Wasn't fun)....After reinstalling the CPS I tried starting again (the car started twice in a row for me but then on the third time it failed to start...note: first two starts were not as easy as usual)
-Next I rechecked for spark and whattya know? all three plugs had spark (with the exception of number 5 having less visible spark than the others)
-Reinstalled plugs and tested again....Still just cranking and cranking.

I want to know if anyone has any clue on what to do next? I am thinking the CamShaft Position Sensor that is under the manifold by the oil filter? but how common is it to have both sensors go at once? and does the camshaft sensor have that much to do with starting procedure? Also if this means anything I have had the common Security Bypass starting issues before (happened 3 times exactly) but this issue has not happened for about 2-3 mths now since I did the correct reset procedure where you leave the key on for 10 minutes until the light flashes etc.. I am really hoping this is not some kind of computer issue. ANY insight is much appreciated!! Thanks guys!

The front plugs are 2, 4, and 6. 1, 3, and 5 are in the back (which is actually the right side of the engine)

You tested the ICM but not the coil packs. They may look fine, but if you can test them...

Crank sensor is not fun to replace. I don't have the tools for the job and that is what mine needs. Did you have problems when flooring the car?

The Cam sensor is a PIA, but it's not too bad. There's just too much stuff in the way. Did mine twice. Buy a good sensor like ACDelco or a Wells. I bought the cheapest one and, yeah 13 months later (1 year warranty :rolleyes2: )

So which plug is not sparking and what is the other plug on that coil pack?

I'm thinking it's fuel related or the igntion switch

Actually the CRP really wasn't that bad with the help of the puller from Advanced Auto Parts.....But no I did not have problems flooring the car before all this had happened, yet the few times after the issues I had it started I had not drove it to find out.

Which leads me to this....I couldn't figure anywhere else to go or look so I really started picking mechanics brains at local shops and talking about all the possible things that could go wrong with the "amazing" alero sensor system (they are EVERYWHERE) and started talking about dash lights etc. I didn't have any dash lights when this happened mind you, but now when I turn the key and let the dash light test run (all lights should go out if all is good, except oil and battery) the service engine light stays on (this excited me=time to use OBDII and find out what to do)

Ran all diagnostics and it came up with no codes found.....so I looked at the voltage on the O2 sensors and they all checked out. After pondering the idea the ECU may play a role I disconnected the battery from both terminals for 15min to reset the computer. I know, bad idea when there were "memories" stored in their that now would need to be recreated and may cause car blah blah blah, well the blah blah blah happened to me..Car started awesome...let it run 20 min with OBDII connected to wait for code (oh yea there was nothing on the dash at all when the car started)

Well after about 20 min and nothing with the diagnostic I said screw it and took it for a drive...It drove okishh as in I was having issues with the tach, gas peddle, and gas gauge reading incorrect. I'd give it a little gas and the tach would jump to 2400-2800 (without actually revving that high because I could hear it) and then drop back down when it shifted (which was harder than usual). Next i tried giving some more pressure on the pedal (halfway, 3/4) tach was not quick to move and when it did it went from 1500-2000ish and no audible high rev again. Let off the gas and it (the tach) would dance audibly and visibly until it came back down to idle as I slowed down.

Just came home, parked it. Started it, shut off, start, off, etc. about 10 times and it started like a brand new alero now (no long hard or extended cranks). So I was lost. Came in the house and began searching some more about the computers etc. and came across an interesting article about GM introducing the flash-PROM ECUs and their ability to be so profitable because their ability to be erased and reprogrammed in one easy step (not to mention their talents for malfunctioning). The article (or maybe it was a forum from a link in the comments) went on to talk about mis-diagnosis from mechanics because they test things often like fuel pressure, injector pulse, filters, (these costs add up) when really they didn't find power, pressure, pulse, etc. because the computer malfunctioned and wasn't telling these devices to either turn on, send a signal, or whatever and it could be fixed with an easy "flash" at the dealership on a TECH II. What I am confused about though is if I would actually need to purchase a new ECU and get it programmed to my VIN and complete the GM CASE and CRANK relearn programs, or get a simple ECU "flash" reprogram the existing ECU?

Still I have many questions. I am no longer concerned about the "normal" mechanic procedures to diagnose fuel, ignition, sensors, etc. because it would be very rare for all the sensors to go bad at once, and/or lose fuel pressure, injectors, pump, all at once. It has got to be the computer losing its mind all at once and not sending the correct signals or failing to signal at all via the OE program.

****My honest (and heavily diagnosed/researched) opinion is that a new ECM, VIN reprogram, CASE and CRANK Relearn, ANDDD A security bypass (using a resistor on the theftlock wire in the ignition only after the computer has learned the parameters and is up and running though) will make ANY Alero run 250,000 miles if regularly maintained. GM made these two systems for a reason, they get people in their garage with seemingly impossible issues, yet they have the "easy" (HUGE $$$$) answer that takes them little effort to fix.

Also seeing as the security or antitheft has been recalled once in the 1999's and almost everywhere you look, Alero owners complain about this issue, I truly believe this BCM security system is a real virus that is a ticking time bomb for your computer....think about it, a virus can get into your home computer and slowly take over and be wiped away, why not in our cars? I mean really, standard procedure for starting issues are to check ICM (expensive$$ replace), cols (expensive$$ replace), CPS (cheap but expensive$$ replace if you don't want to do labor), and the other CPS- camshaft position (cheap, quick and easy for any mechanically inclined person yet hidden and a burden under the exhaust manifold for someone willing to pay$$)?? SERIOUSLY!!?

Sorry for the rant and stuff but I have literally tested voltage, resistance, spark, icm, coils, etc. I was just jumping to what I have found::That all these things were testing good but wouldn't function when you add the computer into the mix...I mean a crankshaft position sensor really? its a friggen magnet that sends a pulse down a heavily protected set of wire to a plug that is also well mounted and protected where nothing ever touches, rubs, or gets to it....TELL ME, how does that go bad when there is no oil, antifreeze, other chemicals present to corrode the wires and short it out?!!

Also to answer your questions about the coil packs, I'm not sure really, I'd honestly have to be out there to tell which cylinder was which because I simply was going by the numbers on the actual coil pack not looking at where the corresponding plug wires went. Regardless I tested one from each coil pack (each coil has one to front, one to back) and then even to a load test and they were fine....also a fairly simple device of conveniently wound wire with heavy plastic and good seal around entire case to ICM=hard to damage when they are not getting wet, too much or too little voltage which HA AH oh yea, the computer tells the ICM what to do their too.....hmmmm It's just way to odd for every single system to not operate correctly at once when the computer has been reset so that the car will start but issues still exists bc the core of the computer hasn't established baselines yet so its telling these systems to turn while it is sending incorrect program information causes the car to run like a$$ (meaning it will only start after the battery has been disconnected for 10 min+ to reset the computer) but after you drive enough and turn car on and off, computer "relearns" it's issues and will not function properly.


ANY THOUGHTS!? haha I could be WAYYY off but I feel I know my way around a garage VERY well and have worked on plenty of cars including motor swaps, computer mapping, building race engines, hell I even had the privilege to be trusted with remapping and programming my step fathers brand new (In 2011) Harley Davidson Electra Glide for the new air system, cam, pistons, exhaust, etc. he had put in (he stated it wasn't carbureted so he had no clue where to start bc it wouldn't run correctly) and this HO has got me going NUTZ over its electronics!!

Actually, to be honest I'm afraid to drive it for these reasons....could be dumping gas, not enough, etc. among many other things that improper instruction from the ECU that could be harmed while driving it like this.....It really was an amazing car for me and I love it when it works and I've had it since brand new so I know it's been taken care of and what parts have been replaced (as well as some of my own simple mods) so I don't want to ruin anything else by pushing it...

Needs a tldr; lol

tldr?

I am being told by a GM tech that my aftermarket remote start is causing the issue for the no start because of the theftlock system. He says that because remote starters are tapped into the power on the ICM, the power wire draws moisture into the plug and shorts it out. Does this sound at all plausible? The engine does crank too...

Makes sense

How many miles are on the car?

Then there should be visible corrosion of some sort to support that theory.

I have seen corrosion occur on some of my TPS sensor plugs, for example.

Which is where? because when I had the OBDII hooked up running the drive cycle system (while car was running), my TPS read (fluctuated) between 0.0-0.6...Is that anything to be concerned about?

125k. Owned since brand new. Always maintained too and did the regular wheel bearings, oil changes, all fluids, air filter, brakes, seafoam once a year after 100k (twice now), plugs/wires, etc. Has had two diff. remote start systems in the car and the one that is in it now was put in because of an "issue" with the last one (it's been in for about 3 years now and this last winter was the first time it has sat outside instead of garage when parked. I had the security issues a total of 3 times about 5 months ago now and they were consistently a day apart. About two weeks after that, my low coolant light came on so I figured I'd drain the old coolant and put new in (it was maybe 1/4 gallon low if that), and then about 2 months ago the low oil light came on when it was only 1/2 qt low.

Idk if these were signs that the remote start was starting to take its toll on the BCM or what? But I am done messing with it (I thought about doing the security bypass on it but I didn't want to try that before it was up and running solid again). I cannot get it in to a GM tech until next friday so I guess I am going to have to wait for a 100% diagnosis until then. Unless someone has some suggestion that just pops off the screen and says DUH! haha

I figure since it needs a CASE relearn anyway from changing the CPS I'd wait until it goes in anyways.

A test for TPS function needs to indicate the amount of rotation of the throttle shaft. When your foot is off the accelerator pedal, the TPS readout should be zero per cent. The readout should be smooth and continuous up to 100 % when the pedal is floored. Most scanners will show this even with key-on, engine off. If you look at the sensor terminals, there should be no signs of discoloration or residue on the pins. Use only AC Delco sensors if possible.

A bad TPS usually won't keep the car from starting, but can cause a bunch of other problems once it does start.

Did it get much rain? Could be a leak of some sort affecting the BCM, if I remember correctly.

It's funny you say that because it had rained prior to my no start issues explained in the posts above. but it's been in the garage for a few days now so it should be all dried out. Unless it caused permanent damage. I was told a blow dryer or heat gun on the coil packs can work well to determine if you have moisture or not (meaning that if your car starts after coils are heated, then they need to be replaced due to moisture).

I'm just frustrated that it went from running absolutely perfect to not even starting without showing some sort of sign (besides what I have stated, but nothing effecting the driveability)

I am also thinking rain or remote start issues.

Hey, I know this thread is kinda dead, but my car is now doing very similar thing. I turn the key and let the fuel pump kick in and pump up to the engine, then try to start it and it sounds like the fuel pump pumps fuel in squirts but the car just cranks and doesn't start. The engine being the 3.4 sequential fuel injection by what I've read it puts fuel into a cylinder and fires on that same cylinder and moves to the next, so is this an ignition problem or what. Someone help me if you can, it will be greatly appreciated.

Not enough details. How many miles, is the check engine light on (any coded stored?) fuel pressure reading? You need fuel, air, and timing for an engine to start. What are u missing.

160,000 something miles, and like I said you can here the injectors putting fuel in the cylinders (unless it's got a loss of pressure that could point toward a hole in the fuel line or a problem with the fuel pump), and there are no check engine lights on, and the only information that was in the bank last time was for my wheel hub assemblies... How do I take a fuel pressure reading... strap a psi gauge in the fuel line?

Yep, should be a valve similar to a tore valve stem located on it fuel pressure rail. Covered with a black cap. I don't know the spec by heart but I bet ur looking for 50-60 psi.