Aleromod.com - Twincharging...

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- - Twincharging... (http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23263)

I'm thinking about doing this next summer, along with a manual swap and a LOT of engine work. I need everyones help, but please don't post opinions, I've been debating this since early January, and am deciding to have it as my project next summer (ALL SUMMER...I'm betting my car will be out of commission at least a month and a half, I'm giving myself time so I don't mess anything up).
Theres still a lot I'm unsure about here, a low mileage bottom end built engine is a must, the manual tranny swap I've wanted to do for a while will be done at this time as well.
Should everything in my life go according to plan this year (BIG if), I will have a budget of $8,000. Yes I know that gets me a nicer used car, but this will be more fun! :) (and give me more horsepower)
I'm saying it this early because I want to do the build right; I want to know everything that can happen/go wrong. I want to know EVERY SINGLE FACTOR that will need to be put into this and come out of this.
By the time this thread dies, I hope to have a long "Parts to buy" list and costs of everything so I can prepare for the summer.
I'm hoping, with your help, to make this happen. Thanks in advance guys.

I AM NO LONGER TWINCHARGING I AM TURBOCHARGING...JUMP TO PAGE 7

The first thing you have to know is that YOU WILL be out of budget. No matter what you calculate, theres always something you wont think of.

Start Gathering your parts early, if you have some room.

The supercharge Alone cost me around 2300 installed with everything paid and I installed it myself. Count another 2500 (realistic price) for your turbo set-up and you are already at almost 5000 bucks. Now count the manual tranny, clutch, cables and pedal, center console and EVERY things you need for the swap. My guess is that would cost around 1000 if you do the work yourself. That makes 6000. Low mileage bottom end, forged pistons, crank, stronger valves and spring, + all the extra you'll need for the engine alone. Maybe your water pump is going bad and you'll notice there or maybe its your oil pump. You never know. I would think you are already near the 8000$ and I didnt even count the exhaust set up.

That is being realistic for prices, I'm sure someone will come and say that, counting all the parts, he can get lower than that. Of course! But you always have to put some extra per part. It would probly be over 8000 if something goes wrong. Lets say you bent the fuel rail, or you short your pcm while tuning or "put anything that comes to your mind here".

With all the parts involved, theres a lot of issues that could happen.

Best advice would be to take your time.

Other than that, I would love to see that kind of project seeing the light :)

Wow, that is a serious project. And by serious, I mean probably one of the largest Alero projects known to man. I have no actual information to input but I would really like to say kudos to you if it is even attempted. No doubt there will be people saying it wont happen, or people making fun of you for even thinking it, but f-them. You gotta dream big if you wanna do something as big as this.

Best of luck, and I also would really like to see it happen.:thumb:

whatever you want to do, and whatever you think is possible- DO IT

dont let anyone tell you otherwise.. "omg what a waste of money.. it's never going to work" fug' that.

Can't wait to see this get under way!

You have the LD9. Of course it's possible. In fact, it's been done, a few times (on j-bodies). Guy with the MP45 plus turbo made 240whp on 7 PSI. Says it runs and feels awesome.

The best setup is one that uses a supercharger like the MP62 and it can be bypassed once the turbo spools. That's how *real* twincharging setups work. I started on the Twincharging page a while ago on Aleromod Upgrades but never got around to it.

these from an old thread-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spilner521 (Post 363987)

Here's pics of the twin charged 2.4 on Jbody.org. It's a pretty sick setup:

Although twin charging can be done with some success, I'd much rather use just a turbo. It's a common myth that turbos always have all kinds of lag. When you properly match the size of the turbo to your engine, there will be almost no lag and you'll still have more power potential than you need, especially when using a ball bearing turbo. It's when you start matching 800hp turbos to 1.8L engines that you'll see a lot of lag.

Twin turbo and Bi turbo are the same thing, where two of the same size turbos are used and each one gets its own bank of cylinders to feed it. Sequential twin turbo is when a small turbo is used to spool a large turbo. Sometimes they will each have their own bank of cylinders, sometimes the exhaust will run through the small one and then through the large one. The most complicated version is when exhaust is routed through the small turbo and then at a certain boost pressure a valve opens and allows exhaust to flow to the large turbo, even though they're both mated to the same exhaust manifold.

His original car (blue Sunfire) made 240whp on 7psi twin charged, then his new car (silver Sunfire) with a different engine made 248whp at 11psi with the same twin charged setup that he swapped over. Those pics up top are of his new setup on a fully built engine.

I'm not sure I agree with you that twin charging is more efficient, but it's certainly a way to get good response from a big, laggy turbo. Like you mentioned, this setup would be most efficient if the supercharger could be completely bypassed once the turbo is spooled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff8928 (Post 363783)

This has got to be my favorite twin-charged setup..

16v Volvo 2.3 with a GT40 and M62 churning out 578HP and 505 Ft-lbs!

The car (Opel Manta) runs a 10.52

twin charging = boo.

GT30R = easy 400+hp with good tune, good fueling, well built 2.4L

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyhunter (Post 375790)

twin charging = boo.

GT30R = easy 400+hp with good tune, good fueling, well built 2.4L

I'd do it for the wow factor and to show it off.. compared to a regular single turbo setup--

if I had the money :p

Quote:

Twin turbo and Bi turbo are the same thing, where two of the same size turbos are used and each one gets its own bank of cylinders to feed it. Sequential twin turbo is when a small turbo is used to spool a large turbo.

not entirely true... i was under the impression that a bi-turbo setup (as seen in some maseratis) was one small turbo feeding a larger one...and then shutting down when not needed...

sequential twin turbo setup uses the same sized turbos... but only one spools until the other is needed...
and parallel twin turbos both feed the same.

?

where is the boost guru when you need him.. (blackjack)

lol yea...
I need exhaust size feedback to...i know the Pacesetter 2.5'' wont cut it when i'm at high boost...I'm thinkin custom 3'' to 3.5'' exhaust...
opinions?

props to the "thinking ahead of time" thing

good luck and keep us all posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickAlero2000 (Post 375867)

lol yea...
I need exhaust size feedback to...i know the Pacesetter 2.5'' wont cut it when i'm at high boost...I'm thinkin custom 3'' to 3.5'' exhaust...
opinions?

want to buy my 3inch exhaust?

oh on that twin charged setup. Dumping wastegate back into the exhaust = ghey. Nothing's better then scaring the shit out of someone with the rediculous cacophony of your wastegate opening up and dumping out into the atmosphere.

Then people get a clue they're screwed.

unless the setup works better with full recirculation... like my subie for example... where if its a full atmouspheric dump it casue the AFRs to go berserk... and therefore is ill advised and detrimental to performance.

im interested in that exhaust...pm me some details and how much u want for it....thanks :)

good luck, but like spy said for big power on your budget go with a single turbo.....