wanna hear a story? Flood Water Sucks!!
 

So it was raining like crazy 2 days ago we even had flash flood warnings. Lots of places got flooded on my way home from work. Like about 2 miles from my house my dumb ass was following other idiots through flood water and this guy gets stuck right in front of me. So as I try to go around him and this truck is coming my way and splashes even more water my way then I get stuck in the damn flood water. There's maybe 10-12" I'm stuck in. Car shuts down, so I wait maybe 10 minutes tops as this guy in a pickup truck helps push my car out of the water. I wait till it stops raining but by that time there is a little seepage on the front carpet and the car wont start (I'm talking 3 f#@k!n hours Heavy Rain). So I get it towed to my house, let it sit over night. In the morning i knew the car wouldn't start cuz the water got in everything, so I went and got new oil new air filter and oil filter. Did the oil change and there was literally so much water in the engine it took 2 full oil pans to drain. the 1st pan was all water. the 2nd was a lil more water then the oil started coming out. Mind you, it took at least 3 seconds to dump the pan and put it back to catch the rest of the shit coming out the engine (didn't expect it to be sooo much water). After the oil change I checked the air filter and sure enough, that sh!t was water logged. Got that drained and dried then checked the tubing to the throttle body. That sh!t had water. The box on top of the throttle body had water so I drained and dried that. From the lever of the throttle body to the top had water all on there so I can imagine what's inside there. I didn't even mess with the car after that. So I let the car sit today and tried starting it when I got out of work. Lights work, No Crank, No Start, but I hear the clicking when I turn the key. What else should I do before I consider replacing the starter? Is it possible the spark plugs need to be replaced? Someone please give me good news before they tell me to junk my car.. lbvs.

i read something about hydrolock??? starting the car without the spark plugs will release the water that is stuck from the engine? Does this sound right? and my car will start after that?

Well, the car wouldn't need to be junked, and you can source an L61 pretty easy. They came in the Cavalier, Sunfire, Grand Am and first 2 years of Cobalt, although I'm told the Cobalt's L61 is different.

You need to get the water out of the cylinders... I'm not sure how you can do it, considering that the Ecotec is dual cam and has the spark plugs in the center instead of the side, but you probably flooded the whole engine. It may still be salvageable. What I wonder is if your PCM fried or not because a bad PCM will also make the engine click but not start. My friend fried his on his Stratus after a battery change. Turns out it had an electrical problem. The car wouldn't get any fuel.

With that said, lets start this at a basic level. Can you hear the fuel pump prime? If you can, then we might be looking for issues between the electrical and under the hood. You would then have to check the fuel pressure in the rail. The goal is to eliminate fuel problems first and work to the worst of the possibilities.

Also, if you can get the starter out, take it to Advance Auto or Auto Zone. They can test it for free. Take the Alternator as well. It may give you problems because alternators and water don't mix.

If everything is a dead end, then I'm betting the PCM fried when it got washed in the flood.

Yes, if you take out the spark plugs then you should be able to shoot out the water from the cylinders when you turn over the engine. You have to be careful though if anything is bent (con rods, etc...) Also check any computers that might have been fired or fuses that could have blown due to shortage.

Good luck with it!

I've been having electrical problems with this car to begin with because the top of my windshield was peeled back and water running down my A-pillar right into my fuse panels of my dash. But I've gotten my windshield resealed recently and haven't had any problems since. Where is the PCM located? Is that under the passenger side dash under the glove box or is that the BCM?

I just had my alternator and battery replaced like 3 months ago. I will be pissed if it is that. But I don't know because my lights & radio work fine it's just not turning over.

Is that the sound I hear when I turn the key on then off? Fuel pump prime? As I turn the key, ACC (lights & radio go on), On, Start (*click*like it wants to start then nothing, lights go off, everything dead) turning all the way OFF (***beeping then buzzing/vibrating***)

Where is the rail located? for fuel pressure?

My girlfriend's Ecotec Alero had a full cold air intake and went too deep in flood water and hydrolocked it right on the spot. I pushed it out of the water and pulled all plugs, removed the fuel pump relay and the upstream O2. Cranked it quite a bit of times trying to get the water purged out of the system. After about an hour and a half the car was up and running and that same engine still works to this day... The Starter ended up taking off a couple teeth on the flex plate which ended up having to get replaced which meant that the engine had to come out anyways. But god damn those Ecotecs are built to last. I gotta say I was impressed.

Edit: forgot to mention that it was our 7th year anniversary and we were at the Cafe where we had our first date. We watched as other cars get towed away, but not her Alero! Makes for one hell of a story.

Now that I know what its called " hydrolock" I'm looking on Youtube and they all seem to be ok by doing this when Their engine gets flooded. Where/when do I have to worry about bending rods warped pistons etc? Is it over turning the engine minutes at a time trying to get the water out? this is when I would think it would happen, heat + no lube = bending/warping. Should I do it in say 10 sec intervals?

So her electrical was ok? nobody mentioned anything about the fuel pump relay!!!! lol . damn I dont wanna f#@k my car up, I can't afford to buy anything new/used right now... i really don't wanna buy a new starter if I don't have to..

Yup. Electrical was all fine. The only thing you have to worry about getting fried is the PCM and they're pretty good when it comes to water/moisture. All the other sensors are also water resistant so I wouldn't worry about it. And yes I do recommend pulling the fuel pump relay because you're not trying to fire up the engine and adding gas to the mixture just makes things worse.

this is why i hate the midwest. every season is brutal. terrible & ridiculously long winters, super wet spring time, outrageous heat/hummidity in the summer. and feels like we don't even get the fall season. just jumps straight into winter. somedtimes you get every season all in 1 friggin day. believe that! but I love it cuz sometimes you need a change of scenery. plus its my home. lmao. damn this sh!t drives me nuts!

Well you give me some hope Young Boondock! lol.. Thanks I feel a lil better.

Trust me man, I know how ya feel. We had a storm here too today and my HVAC blower decided to quit on me briefly so all the windows started fogging up. Wasn't fun at all.

Love that show man. They just started airing it again lol

<-----Pimp Named Slick Back........... lmao...

Uncle Ruckus is the best lol He got the opposite of what Micheal Jackson has haha

lmao..

alright i'm loggin off thanks for the input ya'll.. will update!

Good luck man!

Yeah, it is hydrolocking. If you are worried about bending rods or valves it is now out of your hands because that would have already happened. If it is a manual car, then don't...DON'T try to push start on a gear.

Once you take the plugs out, you can crank to your heart's desire because it won't effect anything other than your battery. Just keep cranking until no more water flies out of the engine and then fit everything back, change the oil and filter again just to be sure and hope for the best.

When mine hydrolocked last September, I did this and just removed my injectors (diesel car) and cranked, then when everything was put back together it ran fine but had a slight bend in one rod from the initial suction of water.

If you need anything else, let me know buddy.

ok so i found these spark plugs at walmart.. are they a good choice for now? i'm on a real tight budget at the moment. would i need to gap these to any specification?

and where exactly is the fuel pump relay & upstream o2 located?

Autolites work my car has ran autolites...fp relay is in the under hood fuse box which should have a diagram under the cover...upstream o2 is behind your motor around the downpipe heatshield

Direct OE Iridium Replacement for a couple cents more if you're willing to wait for shipping:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

One of them even ships right from Illinois.

Well that sucks... yet again a valuable lesson in not driving thru water lol.

Stop worrying about relays and spark plugs and o2 sensors! Pull the spark plugs, see if there is water in there! If the plugs arnt DAMAGED then u can dry them off and reinstLl. And your fuel pump relay would have nothing to do omwoth the car not cranking. Also of any water is between you ranging and upstream o2, it will just go through the cat anyways. One gallon of gas into the engine equals one gallon of water out the tailpipe. So it's not like water is unusual in there!

Pull the plugs and crank. End of story. If you hydrolocked at idle you should be fine.

:p LOL NM

Lurk much?

Nobody asked the most important question: Was it fresh water or salt water.

Fresh water, yeah pull plugs and crank. You already did everything else. Salt water, don't bother, the salt will eat away at everything and the car is pretty much effed.

Talked to a lot of guys the spring after Superstorm Sandy at Raceway park. There was 25,000 cars at RP all from NYC. Exotics, antiques, DD's, you name it. All salt water damaged, all taken off and sent to the big junkyard in the sky. Then a few guys had flood cars from fresh water. Interiors had to be ripped out, dash boards, etc, but after drying out, these cars are back on the road. One car, a converitble, was full of sand, all the way up to the doors. That car had to weigh a few tons! :eek:

Not saying that's what you have here, but just to give you an idea ;)

But if he gets it quick enough it might be fine, the engine itself that is, i hit 6"~ or so of salt marsh water at 70Mph with my old alero when we had torrential rain a couple years back (before you say it, yes it was midnight and there was no lighting, all the power was out) and all that ended up happening (after my CAI sucked a ton of water and the car nearly stalled) was my upstream O2 sensor corroded and gave a null reading. the engine was fine for another year or so after that until natural causes got to the rest of the car. I think for his location and how it happened i think it was fresh water and he should be okay.


Nah, scrapped the Alero and bought a Fiesta ST. Looking for another Ho' though.

Well if it wasn't for the Honda stalling or the damn truck coming my way I would've made it. Lol.

So what you're saying is I can just go ahead and crank the engine after pulling the plugs and watch the water show. After that put the plugs back and the car should start right up?

Do I have to worry about the transmission/fluid or anything like water going back up the exhaust?

Fresh water, I live in Chicago. And the front carpet is soaked. So I know it's gonna get moldy. How would I go about that? Just replace the carpet? I would think that could get quite costly.

PCM is in the engine as far as I know. the BCM is inside.



No, that's far from it. If everything is going dead as you hold it on start and it makes a CLACKING noise (as if the starter has power but the engine won't turn over) then it's a battery/alternator problem... and it can end up being both because alternators and water don't mix. The alternator on the Ecotec is in an odd position. It's under the throttle body... or at least, that's where the cables for the alt are.

If you hold the key on start for 10-15 secs, it should make a nasty sound which is reminiscent of a "clac clac clac clac" in fast pace. If this is true, it's the battery or alternator. This is of course, assuming the battery has enough juice to even flicker the lights. Sometimes, the car will just make a softer click noise and you can hold it forever in start, but you have no lights at all, not even the odometer will be on. I think this is the situation that applies to you. I have a feeling because you've had electrical problems before, you may have issues somewhere between the battery, the alternator, and the cables. I know the cables on my Camaro have acid corrosion all over the battery area because this car has gotten wet with coolant before by the battery area, and the previous owner didn't tighten the battery terminals right. I know have to figure out how to deal with it.

If you can source another GM battery, swap it and see what happens next. TAKE OUT THE SPARK PLUGS BEFORE ANYTHING... IF that water circulates through the engine, you will damage it. That way, if you can get it to crank and turn over, you can drain the water as well.

If you can't source another GM battery, then take it to a parts store and have the battery load tested. Pretty sure it's dead from what you say, but better safe than sorry.

Also, the fuel pump priming is NOT a clicking noise, it's a quiet hum that you have to be paying attention to when you put the car on the on position. The hum usually lasts about 5 to 7 seconds. You may have to have a friend put it on the on position and listen to it by the rear driver's side tire.

The fuel rail pressure relief valve is near the oil cap.

It's a schrader valve that looks similar to a tire valve stem. You can get a small flathead screwdriver once you take off the small cap and press the little pin inside of the valve in. Fuel should spray out for 3 seconds. If the spray is weak or very little fuel actually comes out, then you have a fuel issue as well.



Regardless of whether or not this is an issue, you should check the fuel pressure just to make sure it's not something serious, but I'm fairly certain you need to start with the battery first and go from there. If you do your own work, I would suggest testing the alternator as well. You have to get it out and take it to the parts store. They will tell you whether or not it's a good alt.

I should also mention, take out the relay for the fuel pump when you crank the engine to purge the water. You don't want to exchange flooding water for gasoline in this situation because then the engine will have a hard time normalizing and then you might fry your cat with all the unburnt fuel.


stockinteriors.com sells premolded carpet. You can also look for a used carpet in the junkyard.

If you want to play your luck, purple power and pressurized water. That might help. This of course would mean you taking out the seats and pulling the carpet out. I would also recommend changing the jute padding. They sell that at home depot. Just cut to size.

I see someone is forgetting about the pressure of water...he doesnt have to have a power problem if it is hydrolocked....the water between the piston and the valves are going to keep the valves from opening and without them opening a) timing chain cant turn because of the pressure and b) the water between the head and piston will keep the piston from moving

And the reason you thought that your car would make it through was???

no clacking noise at all so i don't think its the alternator and the battery is good because all the lights on the dash, the radio, and the headlights are fine.

this situation does not apply to me as stated above.

i took out the spark plugs and yes they are wet and burnt. i also checked to see the piston position with a long screw driver and sure the screw driver was wet but also going from left to right starting with 1.
1 piston position is down. 2 piston position is up. 3 piston position is up same as 2. 4 piston position is down same as 1.


yes i do hear the hum sound. i first said it was like a buzzing sound when i was giving my description.

i have not tried to do this yet.

i don't think its the alternator. to be honest with the way how this is going i think its the starter or the PCM.

i did this as well when i took the spark plugs out. but as i said, it won't turn over so i don't think anything is mixing at this point anyway.

The PCM does what exactly? is that the main computer chip is that why you need to program it? and do i have to take it to the dealer so they can program it?

The carpet, like the carpet in your house, has padding under it. Though an automotive grade, it will still need to be removed and dried out at the very least.

I would take it out and leave it in the sun for a few days. Put the seats back in and drive the car without the carpet for that time, if you do not have another car.

I would try that first BEFORE putting the money out for new carpet ;)

The PCM is the command center of the engine. It will tell the engine when it needs fuel, when it needs air, when does it need to adjust it's a/f mix ratio, etc. Without it, the engine won't even start.

Also, if you can, take out the starter and take it to get it tested at the parts store. I know Advance Auto and Auto Zone can do this, but not so sure about pepboys and the others.

As far as the dealer thing, you don't necessarily have to if you get it from another 2004 Ecotec N body BUT you might have VIN issues. I think this is a question better suited for Milzy or Ben @ WOT Tech.

I know you can call up milzy and ask them this and they'll gladly help you out.

oh ok. i will have to give them a call...
this is very frustrating. part of my frustration is that i work a split shift so i only have about 1 good hour to try to work on the car in the morning before work cuz when i get out and its already dark outside. the other part is that the car is in my moms complex parking lot not in my driveway, no garage. 5 days no car! i hate this sh!t

One thing I've been reading up is that you need to make sure the hardware numbers match.

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/sh...89#post1964789

Then as far as retune, only if you grab a random one. I'm not sure how "plug and play" they are.

Your starter does have a solinoid (very rugged relay) attached to it. U could try jumping the two large studies with a screw driver to see if the starter turns. Do this with no plugs in it. Make sure the car is in park or neutral. Doing this will bypass anything electrical and will determine if there is a mAcanical issue within the engine at this point.

Untill you get the thing to crank, nothing fuel related or ignition (spark plugs and wires) won't matter. Doesn't matter if you have fuel or not... If it ain't cranking it ain't gonna mater

So I've been fortunate enough to use my mother's car until I can figure out what the hell is wrong with my car. I'm determined to do it myself since I can't afford to let a shop do it but at the same time I don't have enough time during the day to just knock this out. Now I've been doing here and there so this is what I've accomplished....... I've gotten most of the water to drain from the throttle body but I can see that there is more water leading to the engine. When I flash a light into the spark plug holes I only see water in the 2nd piston, the other pistons are dry. I was checking the fuse panels inside the car and everything seems to be OK.

I checked the fuse box in the engine bay and I noticed that there isn't a starter relay. Is that normal? I would think that I need that relay for a reason, right?