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Old 08-14-2004, 06:53 PM   #1
kwhauck
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Well, i just read about this in turbo magazine this morning.....seemed pretty f***in crazy to me...showed 60% gains on the truck they tested it on.....any of you high tech guys want to put in some input......check it out......might make putting together a custom turbo setup a hell of a lot easier.......hmm............ :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:


after reading over their website a bit, it is to my understanding we would be able to still utilize the TOG headers although they say you would not need too but it could help.....really the only thing you would have to worry about is piping..... found some decent pics from one of the camaro installs......







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Old 08-14-2004, 08:08 PM   #2
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This may make installations easier, and keep the engine compartment
lust cluttered, but it looks to me like there's ALOTTA cash riding too close to the ground....I'd be hesitant to try this set-up. For the cash, I'd go with a s/c.
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Old 08-14-2004, 08:21 PM   #3
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I'd have to see it to believe it. Seems to me that there would be too much turbo lag. I read where they were saying there wasn't any but I'm still skeptical.
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Old 08-15-2004, 12:56 AM   #4
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I just sent a request for info, I work with Caterpillar, Cummins, Detroit, and Mack turbo systems all day, and the pressure distances from turbo to intake on these trucks is not much different, I can see a fraction of a second difference in the exhaust pressure spinning up the turbine on startup, but under normal driving conditions the pressure should be constant, and the turbo would run much cooler? which inturn would help the pressured air be cooler, I just wonder how well the turbo alone would muffle the exhaust tones?
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Old 08-15-2004, 02:49 AM   #5
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check out the videos in that link... sounds kinda weird with the turbo spoolin right at the exhaust, but the car isnt horribly loud.. somethin just doesnt sound right though...
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Old 08-15-2004, 02:52 AM   #6
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I'd love to see someone drive that in the rain. Is it just me, or is the intake in possibly the worst spot ever?
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Old 08-15-2004, 08:19 AM   #7
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Young blood is right too much money sitting too close to the ground

I bottom out with the car lowered only 1 inch.

As for the intake, well you can be the first person to flood out your motor in only 2 inches of water, or your standard puddle
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Old 08-15-2004, 08:39 AM   #8
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I'm surprised someone hasn't "upgraded" the Cyclone to fit on your exhaust pipes to make gases escape with greater velocity = better acceleration. :rolleyes:
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Old 08-15-2004, 04:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
I'd love to see someone drive that in the rain. Is it just me, or is the intake in possibly the worst spot ever?

Quote:
Young blood is right too much money sitting too close to the ground

I bottom out with the car lowered only 1 inch.

As for the intake, well you can be the first person to flood out your motor in only 2 inches of water, or your standard puddle

i believe these would be the most common question from you guys..however many other questions have been discussed on the website....

With the turbo so far back, don't you get a lot of turbo lag?
No, our turbochargers are sized to operate at this remote location. Just like any turbocharger, once the turbo is up to temperature and in the rpm range for which it was designed to operate. The boost comes on hard and fast. All of our systems will produce full boost below 3000 rpm.
If you were to take a conventional turbo and place it at the rear, you would have lots of lag and consequently, our turbo wouldn't work properly if mounted up front.

Doesn't water get into your engine with the filter mounted down low?
No, even under very wet conditions the filter sheds most all water. Under wet conditions the throttle position is usually very light because of traction issues so the engine is taking in very little air anyway. However, we do rigorous testing with our truck systems because many off-road wet conditions may require full throttle. Even under extremely wet conditions, where the water is flying clear over the top of the vehicle plowing through deep puddles, we have never had a water related drivability problem with any of our kits. However, if you were to completely submerge the filter, you would draw water through the filter and into the intake tubing.

With so long of intake and exhaust tubes, doesn't it take a while for the boost to build up?
No, our intake tubing volume is about the same as most conventional turbo setups that are running a front mounted intercooler, and less than many of them that run large intercoolers. We aren't talking about a small compressor filling up a large air tank, we are talking about a huge compressor filling up a very small volume which only takes a fraction of a second. Our systems compress the intake tubing in about .05 seconds. So much for turbo lag...
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With the turbo located under the fuel tank on the Camaro, doesn't it heat up the fuel?
We have done temperature testing on this issue and found that the factory heat shield does a great job of preventing the transfer of heat into the fuel tank. The temperature of the air on top of the heat shield only rose about 15F higher than ambient temperature with a full boost run. The only time you might see an increase in actual fuel temperature would be during extensive stationary dyno testing when there isn't any substantial airflow around the turbocharger and rear of the car. We recommend running a full tank of gas for any dyno testing.
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If water hits the hot turbo, will it crack?
Seems like it might when you first think about it, however, when I asked the Garrett engineers this questions they just laughed. There is a big difference in water splashing on a hot turbo and submerging it in enough water and fast enough to really cool it down fast. Both the new turbocharged Vette systems and the new Porsche systems sit the turbo down low and exposed to water and anything else that goes under a car.
Plus, our turbos just don't get that hot and when weather conditions are such that there is a lot of water around, you can't push enough boost to get the turbo hot anyway because you'd just spin the tires.
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How efficient is the intercooling from your tubing?
We typically get at least 50% Intercooler Efficiency numbers from our systems and some of the truck systems which have better exposure to cold air are even better. Combine this with a pressure drop of only about 1/4 to 3/4 psi and it makes for very good numbers.
Testing on our LS1 produced the following results:

Turbo outlet temps at 5 psi boost were 175F and intake temps were 115F which is about 52% efficient.

Turbo outlet temps at 8 psi boost were 225F. This is a 50F increase with only 3 psi added to turbocharger boost. Even most large, expensive intercoolers have a pressure drop of at least 2+ psi. This causes the turbocharger to have to work harder to create 2-3 or even more psi to force the air through the restriction of the intercooler to get that much less boost into the manifold.

So in comparison, with our intercooler efficiency of 50%, combined with virtually no pressure drop, yields in all actuality, a better intercooler efficiency number than the 50% because with a standard pressure drop the temperature difference would be 225F at the turbo and 115F at the intake manifold which would require nearly 70% intercooler efficiency to produce.

Isn't there a huge pressure drop with such long intake tubes?
No, if the pipes were 100' long there would be but we are only talking a few extra feet and we size the charge air tubing so that it will flow without a large pressure drop. We typically will get about 1/4 to 3/4 lb difference between the turbo compressor and the intake manifold, which is nothing compared to the pressure drop across an intercooler. With high boost applications, these numbers will increase slightly.


What about ground clearance with the turbo down low on Camaro?
Ground clearance hasn't been a problem as all of the kit sits higher than the stock equipment. The lowest areas are near the wheels which give it added clearance going over bumps. We've installed the system on several lowered LS1s with no problems.
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Old 08-15-2004, 08:13 PM   #10
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Still, our main problem is fitting 2 pipes under our cars, we apparently can't run dual exhaust, so how are we gonna run an exhaust and a pressure pipe?
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Old 08-15-2004, 08:57 PM   #11
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i was thinking the same thing as jabartram
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:51 PM   #12
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Maybe someone needs to write them a little note asking them about an application for our cars.
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Old 08-15-2004, 10:54 PM   #13
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I already have, I will be talking to them this week!
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Old 08-16-2004, 03:11 AM   #14
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this just seems weird.........I mean im all for it, its cool as hell.......i mean have you guys watched some of the movies and listened.......that muscle car sound with the turbo sounds crazy......
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:04 PM   #15
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It's a great idea, esp since diesels have been running exhaust powered turbos for years, and you really won't find many that aren't. I was surprised at how far back they are located, and how low, but theoretically it sounds like it would work.
Maybe the turbo and filter could be protected by a metal shield, and the filter moved to a higher location using a bit more tubing
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:09 PM   #16
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It's a great idea, esp since diesels have been running exhaust powered turbos for years
Aren't all turbo's exhaust powered.
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:13 PM   #17
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Originally posted by jamcllw@Aug 16 2004, 09:09 AM
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It's a great idea, esp since diesels have been running exhaust powered turbos for years
Aren't all turbo's exhaust powered.
yes, yes they are......
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:15 PM   #18
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I was trying to convey sarcasm.
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:39 PM   #19
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Enjoy busting your turbo the first time you hit a curb or a rock or bottom out your car.

Also, how do they get oil all the way back there for the turbo?
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Old 08-16-2004, 12:47 PM   #20
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If that device IS really legit, I can see using it maybe on a vehicle that is only used at the track. And since it hides nicely enough under the car noone would see it if they looked in your hood prior to racing you.
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