Ported Polished Upper Lower And Tb

[justinusaf]

Right now I know that Street Arsenal, Doctor Speed, and RSM Racing offer ported an polished uppper and lower intake manifolds. Apoc also offers the upper. Which set is the best? If anyone has had any experience with any of these can you let me know. We are going to be getting P&P Throttle body, upper and lower intake manifolds, engine mounts and Pulley. I would appreciate if only people who really know what they are talking about post.

Also if anyone knows about the Ported heads from RSM or street arsenal let me know.

There is really no telling who sells the best. P&P is pretty much dremmel tooled out for the most part. Time consuming and tedious. It's not going to give you much more HP. I'd say just try to contact all the dist. and ask them if thry do it in house, or if they farm it out....etc... and go with who you think is best.

SA Has done some questionable work in the past they are also over prices, You best bet is to go to a local shop and ask them what they can do for you to. I would recomend getting the heads done at the same time.

Get them milled for more compression if you want to go NA go with a valve job and a P&P. Its not really worth paying for a TB that has been just ported, Get one with a bigger Inlet, Stock is 58 RSM has a 62MM out, I found that it gives loads more Throttle responce. its a must for a topend buildup.

Truth be told, ported manifolds and heads have a pretty high $/HP ratio, meaning you won't see a ton of power for the amount it all costs. The stock heads really aren't too bad, but they can be cleaned up some (as with any mass-produced cast part), and milling them maybe .015" or so for a compression bump will help a bit. Worth about 10-15HP or so.
Ported/polished upper manifolds and TB produce very minimal gains, maybe 8HP for all of them. But if you are taking the time to do the heads, might as well. Basically, if you do everything right, count on $1000 or so for maybe 20HP at best. And that doesn't include labor or new gaskets.
For any V6 build, you really should look at headers before anything else. But if you're really hell-bent on getting the port/polish work, it'd be better going through a local engine builder.

Originally posted by mfuller@Aug 2 2004, 06:31 PM
Truth be told, ported manifolds and heads have a pretty high $/HP ratio, meaning you won't see a ton of power for the amount it all costs. The stock heads really aren't too bad, but they can be cleaned up some (as with any mass-produced cast part), and milling them maybe .015" or so for a compression bump will help a bit. Worth about 10-15HP or so.
Ported/polished upper manifolds and TB produce very minimal gains, maybe 8HP for all of them. But if you are taking the time to do the heads, might as well. Basically, if you do everything right, count on $1000 or so for maybe 20HP at best. And that doesn't include labor or new gaskets.
For any V6 build, you really should look at headers before anything else. But if you're really hell-bent on getting the port/polish work, it'd be better going through a local engine builder.

I agree, Headers are a must before you do any of this. I milled my heads .020 over stock, It provided loads more of low end torque. the Heads and the manifolds really improved my Mid range. My top end is slugish because of the stock catback piping witch will be taken care of this week. Also you will see so much more out of this mod if you have a good cam to back it up. I was thinking of doing a cam this year, I'm just to lazy, I'll do one with the Mild buildup this winter. If the new piping and muffler helps my topend out a bit, i'll be happy with my improvments this year over last, If I can hook up she just rockets though 1st and second.

Originally posted by Blackrider@Aug 2 2004, 12:52 PM
I agree, Headers are a must before you do any of this. I milled my heads .020 over stock, It provided loads more of low end torque. the Heads and the manifolds really improved my Mid range. My top end is slugish because of the stock catback piping witch will be taken care of this week. Also you will see so much more out of this mod if you have a good cam to back it up. I was thinking of doing a cam this year, I'm just to lazy, I'll do one with the Mild buildup this winter. If the new piping and muffler helps my topend out a bit, i'll be happy with my improvments this year over last, If I can hook up she just rockets though 1st and second.

Out of idle curiosity, since you had your heads milled, have you monitored ignition timing and/or knock retard in your car? Higher compression (and increased timing via a DHP) generally increases the chances for KR, and a colder spark plug may be required.

Originally posted by mfuller+Aug 2 2004, 07:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mfuller @ Aug 2 2004, 07:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Blackrider@Aug 2 2004, 12:52 PM
I agree, Headers are a must before you do any of this. I milled my heads .020 over stock, It provided loads more of low end torque. the Heads and the manifolds really improved my Mid range. My top end is slugish because of the stock catback piping witch will be taken care of this week. Also you will see so much more out of this mod if you have a good cam to back it up. I was thinking of doing a cam this year, I'm just to lazy, I'll do one with the Mild buildup this winter. If the new piping and muffler helps my topend out a bit, i'll be happy with my improvments this year over last, If I can hook up she just rockets though 1st and second.

Out of idle curiosity, since you had your heads milled, have you monitored ignition timing and/or knock retard in your car? Higher compression (and increased timing via a DHP) generally increases the chances for KR, and a colder spark plug may be required. [/b][/quote]
DOOD you have NO IDEA lol I had NO problems with knock untill i got my DHP witch was a bad burn, i was getting about 6-8 Degrees of knock in my powerband, then I got the replacment DHP, and it dropped to 1.5 in first and second, but still stuck around 5.6 in third. I replaced my plugs with NGK Coppers with a .060 gap and it feels stronger now, its time to autotap it again. and we will see. if not i'll go to a degree cooler.

You may want to try dropping down to a NGK TR6, which is 2 heat ranges colder than stock. It is generally accepted that every degree of KR costs about 3HP....you can do the math. Even the tiniest blip of KR drives me nuts.

Originally posted by mfuller@Aug 2 2004, 10:42 PM
You may want to try dropping down to a NGK TR6, which is 2 heat ranges colder than stock. It is generally accepted that every degree of KR costs about 3HP....you can do the math. Even the tiniest blip of KR drives me nuts.

yeah no kidding 16.5 HP loss in third no wonder i get walked up their lol, that and the stock cat back piping, That and the fact that it adds the timing back in slowly after a blip issed:

[Redog]

I bought my U&L P&P and TB from RSM racing

I look into it a lot and it seems that all the sites offer about the same amount of HP. I would still do it but after than drive around for a bit, and buy the ITS turbo kit. You can like to the site from Alero Upgrades. The state one kit is $3000 and you get the turbo, headers, cat, and downpipe. IMO it's a pretty sweet deal

Originally posted by Redog@Aug 2 2004, 05:41 PM
I would still do it but after than drive around for a bit, and buy the ITS turbo kit. You can like to the site from Alero Upgrades. The state one kit is $3000 and you get the turbo, headers, cat, and downpipe. IMO it's a pretty sweet deal

DO NOT do business with ITS. Horror stories abound.....(including blown engines).

I actually found it was alot cheaper to get a local engine shop to do my P&P job! They charged me a fraction of what the online sites wanted plus I didn't have the hassel of shipping... The best part was they did it even cheaper because I removed all the parts myself!! If there is a local race shop or engine shop that you trust, I would check and see if they would give you some sort of deal???? :thumbsup:

[FormulaNERD]

is the ITS kit the same as offered by JD's Performance and HP Performance?

[Redog]

Originally posted by mfuller+Aug 2 2004, 07:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mfuller @ Aug 2 2004, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Redog@Aug 2 2004, 05:41 PM
I would still do it but after than drive around for a bit, and buy the ITS turbo kit. You can like to the site from Alero Upgrades. The state one kit is $3000 and you get the turbo, headers, cat, and downpipe. IMO it's a pretty sweet deal

DO NOT do business with ITS. Horror stories abound.....(including blown engines). [/b][/quote]
I guess it's true you get what you pay for

[FormulaNERD]

about KR..... my engine runs just a little irregular, i'm hoping its just KR, could my plugs be too hot or too cold? what should the gap be... i have NGK Iridium's, but not sure which ones without pulling one and i cant find my plug socket. also my SES light comes on sometimes, i check it and get the rich fuel error.

i know this isnt my thread, and sorry to butt in, but theres alot of good information in here, and i thought since it related a little, i might get a quick answer....

Originally posted by FormulaNERD@Aug 2 2004, 06:47 PM
about KR..... my engine runs just a little irregular, i'm hoping its just KR, could my plugs be too hot or too cold? what should the gap be... i have NGK Iridium's, but not sure which ones without pulling one and i cant find my plug socket. also my SES light comes on sometimes, i check it and get the rich fuel error.

i know this isnt my thread, and sorry to butt in, but theres alot of good information in here, and i thought since it related a little, i might get a quick answer....

Chances are it is knock.....when the PCM gets a signal from the knock sensor, it responds by pulling timing and increasing fuel deivery (this helps to "quench" the knock).....so this might be where your rich code is coming from.

Any good scan tool should be able to log individual cylinder misfires, so you have some type of starting point. Your plugs should be fine, but you may want to check the gap - they should be gapped at .060".......you don't have any mods that warrant a colder plug.

Once you know what cylinder is misfiring, check the usual suspects - plugs, wires, fuel injectors (maybe one is clogged).....also make sure your MAF sensor is clean, and that the screen is intact.

[FormulaNERD]

my maf screen was already removed when i bought the car.

Originally posted by FormulaNERD@Aug 2 2004, 07:03 PM
my maf screen was already removed when i bought the car.

Then that's the first item you should address - find a MAF sensor with the screen still intact.

Originally posted by mfuller+Aug 3 2004, 01:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mfuller @ Aug 3 2004, 01:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FormulaNERD@Aug 2 2004, 07:03 PM
my maf screen was already removed when i bought the car.

Then that's the first item you should address - find a MAF sensor with the screen still intact. [/b][/quote]
Werd, My car was SOO bad on gas with no MAF screen. it also ran like crap.

Muffler, I'm going down to a local speed shop tomorrow, few buddys of mine are going to be dynoing and tuning, I'm going to mix in some race gas and see if the knock problem fixes itself, if it does i'll know I need colder plugs. if not the search begines for the little effer causing the falce knock, first place i'm going is the Tranny lol.