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Old 06-17-2012, 01:52 PM   #1
falloutboy
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Dorman C66015 emergency brake cable

Sorry haven't looked if this is already mentioned. But non the less here some mails and pics of the trouble I have.

Hi folks, I need someone crossreading my letter to RockAuto and suggestion on formulation, formatting or phrases.

To whom it may concern,
I recently received two emergency brake cables, that I ordered via your catalog. The part numbers are the same, but the parts themselves are not even remotely the same. One of the parts is OK and has a good quality, the other one has some serious technical and quality vise flaws.
As these are brake parts I have a standard that the used parts should meet, and this part being the EMERGENCY brake cable does not meet these requirements; I assume that RockAuto thinks alike that these vital and maybe lifesaving parts should be of at least good quality to function flawless.
I attached some pictures of both parts to show specific flaws and allow comparison.
Picture 1: Both parts have the same package, in the left is the inferior part.
Picture 2: Obvious the bow for the tube part of the cable is different and will cause alignment issues
Picture 3: Close up #1 of 'made in china' part. Focus on the claws of the bracket, the dust boot of the cable, base of the bracket
Picture 4: press fit of tube 'made in china'
Picture 5: dust boot and cable of 'made in china' part. Dust boot is not attached to hook, cable plastic coating more than minimal - seizure of cable hence imminent.
Picture 6: press fit of cable in the plug 'made in china', no press fit or solder to see, slippage possible.
Picture 7: claw part of 'made in china', again no coating of cable and plastic seal starting to deteriorate
Picture 8: Close up #2 of 'made in canada' part. Focus on sturdy claws of the bracket, rubber boot at base of bracket, dust boot fixed to hook.
Picture 9: press fit of tube 'made in canada'
picture 10: press fit of cable in the plug 'made in canada', strong press fit, no solder
picture 11: claw part of 'made in canada', coating of cable present, plastic seal in good condition

As you see these parts are very different, and I may request a replacement of the 'made in china' part with one of the 'made in canada' parts.

Kind regards
Julian Schroeter

*Info of invoice and partnumbers*

http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...6024196139.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...0259842683.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...5691489301.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...8011403351.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...7910312942.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...8051617522.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...2262277442.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...4000332629.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...8171494527.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...5709923154.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...1096632882.JPG

-------------------------

Just an FYI:
I forgot to include the answer from RockAuto.
In the mean time, I found out that the cables are made just plain wrong.
What I haven't told RA or Dorman yet, but really have to do this.

She kinda didn't see me pics first, but they were already there.
-----------------
Dear Julian,

Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear you received a part that you feel to be of inadequate quality. Based upon the differences between the two cables as you noted in your email, it almost sounds as if one of the parts may have been misboxed (the wrong part put into the correct box). You mention 10 photos but no photos were attached to your email for me to view. If possible, please reply to this email and attach the photos you have taken of the parts you received so that I can more accurately determine how best to proceed.

Regarding the origin of the parts you purchase from RockAuto, the manufacturers - in this case, Dorman - can source their parts from any number of locations. As such, it is entirely possible to receive 2 Dorman parking brake cables manufactured in separate locations (China and Canada, in this case). If we were to ship another parking brake cable to you, I would be unable to guarantee that this third cable would be manufactured in Canada as opposed to China or any other location.

I look forward to your reply including the photos of the parts you have received. I apologize for any inconvenience you have experienced with your order and look forward to assisting you further.

Thank you,

Melissa
RockAuto Customer Service
---------------
Dear Julian,

Thank you for providing the photos of the parking brake cables you received. I've taken a look at the photos and I can definitely see the differences between the two cables you received. However, as I mentioned in my previous email, I cannot guarantee that we have another parking brake cable made in Canada in stock - so if we were to reship the same part to you, it is likely you would receive another part made in China.

As such, I notified our credit department that you will need to be refunded for the second brake cable you received (inferior quality). Typically the quality of a part made by any manufacturer should not vary depending on manufacturing location as the manufacturer has strict specifications and guidelines a part has to meet. I am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused and I appreciate your patience as we process your refund.

Once the refund to your MasterCard has been issued (sometime within the next few business days) an email notification will be sent to you. If you have any questions or concerns, please let us know.

Thank you,
Melissa
RockAuto Customer Service

---------------------

Hi, this is going to Dorman itself.

deficient product C660015

To whom it may concern,
I recently received two emergency brake cables, that I ordered via RockAuto. The part numbers are the same, but the parts themselves are not even remotely identical or even usable for an 1999 Oldsmobile Alero. They both have a major design flaw.
As these are brake parts, I have a standard that the used parts should meet and this part being the EMERGENCY brake cable does not meet them. I assume that Dorman would agree, these vital and maybe lifesaving parts should be of at least good quality to reliably function.
I attached some pictures of both parts to show specific flaws and allow comparison.
Picture 1: Both parts have the same package.
Picture 2: Obvious the bow for the tube part of the cable is different and causes alignment issues
Picture 3: Close up #1 of 'made in china' part. Focus on the claws of the bracket, the dust boot of the cable, base of the bracket
Picture 4: press fit of tube 'china'
Picture 5: dust boot and cable of 'china' part. Dust boot is not attached to hook, cable plastic coating more than minimal - seizure of cable hence imminent.
Picture 6: press fit of cable in the plug 'china', no press fit or solder to see, slippage possible.
Picture 7: claw part of 'china', again no coating of cable and plastic seal starting to deteriorate
Picture 8: Close up #2 of 'made in canada' part. Focus on sturdy claws of the bracket, rubber boot at base of bracket, dust boot fixed to hook.
Picture 9: press fit of tube 'canada'
picture 10: press fit of cable in the plug 'canada', strong press fit, no solder
picture 11: claw part of 'canada', coating of cable present, plastic seal in good condition

And now the major design flaw both cables have that make it impossible to use these parts.
The cut-out that is used to fix the cable in the brake bracket is rotated 90 compared to the OE part. Hence the cable can only be mounted facing forward or backwards, but not sideways so it can be hooked to the main emergency brake cable and equalizer.
I attached some comparison shots of the OE cable and your cable. It is obvious that the cut-out is wrong and can't fit in the mounting bracket in the correct direction.
I hope this is only a deficient batch and not your whole production. I would be very happy to receive a statement concerning this part and what Dorman plans on fixing this design flaw.
Picture 12: comparison between OE and Dorman part - same cable orientation
Picture 13: comparison OE / Dorman showing cut-out being 90 off
Picture 14: mounting bracket showing need of cut-out orientation
Picture 15: Overall view
Picture 16: mounting of OE cable

Kind regards
Julian Schroeter
--------------------

pictures 1 - 12 are the same as before

12 - 16 can be seen here
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...1759768672.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...2487650903.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...0564674525.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...5244585083.JPG
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galle...0375615391.JPG
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My round trip through the US of A
Thanks
Julian
1979 350SB Chevrolet Camaro Project Thread
1995 Chrysler Stratus LX
1999 3.4L Oldsmobile Alero (resource page)
2002 Nissan Primera with CVT

Last edited by falloutboy : 06-17-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:59 PM   #2
Starglow
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I'm not sure what the deal is with parking brake cables, but I had issues when I replaced them on my GMC truck and went through three cables before I got one that was correct.

It's not just a Dorman thing either, because the first cable I bought from RockAuto was an AC Delco brand and it was assembled wrong. The second one I got from Carquest and it too was assembled incorrectly. The third one was a Dorman from Napa and it was fine. Most car parts are made in China these days so I'm not surprised by your experience because I've seen it myself also.
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:05 PM   #3
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I would assume that people in Germany, or anywhere else in Europe would be familiar with the crappy quality of Chinese car parts.

Or in terms that Falloutboy can understand:
Chinese auto parts are very modest.
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Old 06-18-2012, 01:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzyzzx View Post
I would assume that people in Germany, or anywhere else in Europe would be familiar with the crappy quality of Chinese car parts.

No we are not. We get to be so lucky that European / German regulations hinder most of the most crappiest stuff to be sold here.
Take rims for example - Germany may produce one the cheaper tire rack rims (that even look good and fit the Alero) but even though they are a german company, their rims are too crappy to get a validation to be sold here.

And as these technical and safety validations are extremely expensive - you only do it with products that really meet these requirements, and are really worth it to be sold here (whether it being the number of sold units, or the profit you can get for each unit)

so we get spared (normally) by the rest of the world crap. But it can also be pretty annoying if you wanna upgrade your brakes or buy bigger rims.
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My round trip through the US of A
Thanks
Julian
1979 350SB Chevrolet Camaro Project Thread
1995 Chrysler Stratus LX
1999 3.4L Oldsmobile Alero (resource page)
2002 Nissan Primera with CVT
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:46 PM   #5
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No comment about my very modest comment?

From what I can tell, people (at least) in the UK are familiar with the cheap one from China.

Last edited by zzyzzx : 06-18-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:07 AM   #6
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got the Dorman reply today.

Julian,
Thank you for the detailed pictures. Let me first apologize for any inconvenience regarding these cables. To clarify, do both cables appear to be an issue as far a fit and function, or just he "made in China" cable? And where do you stand as far as the need for the cables? Were you abled to use these cables? Did you source them elsewhere or are you still in need of a replacement set? If you still have a need, we may want to get these back directly from you so our quality team can get a look at them.

Please let me know.

Thank you

Chris Lehn
Dorman Products
--------------------------

Whats your opinion on this topic? How should I proceed?
BOTH cable are produced wrong and are TOTALLY worthless
Do you think I can convince Dorman to pick the parts up here in Germany on THEIR cost?

I haven't gotten an reimbursement from RA so far, but I either didn't tell that both cable are worth shit.
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My round trip through the US of A
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Julian
1979 350SB Chevrolet Camaro Project Thread
1995 Chrysler Stratus LX
1999 3.4L Oldsmobile Alero (resource page)
2002 Nissan Primera with CVT
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:24 PM   #7
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Here my reply to Dorman

Chris
Thank your very much for the fast reply.
Yes both cables have fit and function issue
I still need both cables to pass my already due official technical inspection here in Germany.
I'd be happy to supply you with the cables, if you have a possibility to pick them up here in Germany. Or do you have an other suggestion?

My address:
Julian Schroeter
Schubartstr. 11
72661 Grafenberg
Germany

Another reminder for the quality team in general.
As the Oldsmobile Alero / Pontiac Grand Am, and some other GM models have a self adjusting parking brake lever, a very smooth running cable is mandatory. Else the lever has to be pulled up way high (straight up in case of my rusty cable), so a smooth and durable plastic coating of the steel cable is necessary. Your cables have quite a resistance and erratic movement even if moved by hand.

Kind regards
Julian Schroeter
----------------------------

Did no one else have these issues with these parking brake cables?
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My round trip through the US of A
Thanks
Julian
1979 350SB Chevrolet Camaro Project Thread
1995 Chrysler Stratus LX
1999 3.4L Oldsmobile Alero (resource page)
2002 Nissan Primera with CVT
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:29 PM   #8
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from what i gather throughout this and many other threads on the site, people have problems with dorman parts in general
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:09 PM   #9
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another round

Hi Julian,
I forwarded your images to the product manager and we got an OE sample
to compare to ours. I was able to confirm that we did make a production
change due to a manufacturing issue. So the cable you received that had
the sharper than 90 degree tube is definitely a defect. I suspect that
it is old stock. Our current production matches the OE sample with some
differences in finish, but not dimension in any way. The end that
secures in the bracket on the car is identical. I would like to get the
VIN from your car if possible so I can compare GM's listing to be sure
we don't have an application issue. If the applications are correct,
then the only option we would have is to get Rock Auto to ship you a
replacement set and go from there.

Chris Lehn
--------------------
Hi Chris
the is VIN: 1G1NL52E4XC000278
as you see this is an EXPORT Model
details can be viewed here
http://gm-alero.de/93/rpo-codes-austattungs-codes

The sharper bend in the tube could be re-bend a bit, depending on rigidity that may work out. But the cut-out, keyway that fit the cable into the bracket is wrong, which makes the cable either point to the front, or the rear of the car not to the side.
the cables in picture 13 are oriented the same way - the slot for the clamp would fit fine, but the key to get the cable into the bracket (picture 14) is wrong.
The whole in the bracket is not round O it is straight on the sides |O| - your cables on the other hand have the straight parts at the top and bottom.

Do you got an estimate for the shipping costs from Germany to your place? If you still want these cables.

Regards
Schroeter
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My round trip through the US of A
Thanks
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1979 350SB Chevrolet Camaro Project Thread
1995 Chrysler Stratus LX
1999 3.4L Oldsmobile Alero (resource page)
2002 Nissan Primera with CVT
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:35 AM   #10
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According to the GM parts catalog, domestic and export models should
share the same brake cables. GM does not differentiate. We do not sell
out products direct, so you would need to deal with Rock Auto regarding
the return. Based on the comparison we did last week, out product
matched GM's so I would have to assume these were either made
incorrectly or packaged wrong. I would contact Rock Auto and ask them
for an exchange (or refund if you don't want to get another set of ours)
They should be more than whiling to assist you with that. If the parts
are in fact defective/made wrong, they will forward them back to us.

I am sorry for the inconvenience Julian.

Chris Lehn
---------------------------------
So much about getting the parts back and checking the overall production of these parts or improving it. lol
RA probably doesn't want the defect parts back anyway - hence Dorman will never get them from RA.

Now the question, do I let me send new parts from RA, or do I buy from NAPA from someone who actually looked at the parts before? It is more expensive but at least someone checked them beforehand.
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My round trip through the US of A
Thanks
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1979 350SB Chevrolet Camaro Project Thread
1995 Chrysler Stratus LX
1999 3.4L Oldsmobile Alero (resource page)
2002 Nissan Primera with CVT
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:04 AM   #11
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working at a dealer here, we even get parts that have been packaged wrong... or not at all.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:27 PM   #12
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Alright, so just that everybody know what to look out for if buying brake cables.
1: the bow of the the tube has to be as close to 90 as possible (right one)


2: the rubber coating of the steel cable and the inner sleeve should be thick, and operation (pushing cable in and out) should be as easy and smooth as possible


3: it should have a sturdy clamp and a ruber boot


4: the cut-off has to be perpendicular to the routing of the cable. In the picture the cables are oriented in the same way, the cut off has to be on the side (cable in front) and not on the top (cable in background)
__________________
My round trip through the US of A
Thanks
Julian
1979 350SB Chevrolet Camaro Project Thread
1995 Chrysler Stratus LX
1999 3.4L Oldsmobile Alero (resource page)
2002 Nissan Primera with CVT
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:30 PM   #13
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More on Dorman "quality"

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/arti...raybestos.html
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