Rebuild Underway!!

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by Headstrong2740

Yeah i want them as well cause i dont want the motor to move around to much inside.
So... Spy..... any ideas or links??

and as for the quality parts... thats all im using i want the power but wow is it costing alot.
the fuel system upgrade will have to wait till later on in the summer.
but will be nice once i get it to bumb up past 8 lbs of boost.... think ill be close to 10 with that... not to bad i think

If you're only going to run 10 psi, you didn't even need those forged internals. It's a good thing you have them though, as soon as you get a feel for the boost, you'll want more and more, and with a built engine, you can push a lot of power. Just make sure you get a good tune before you start hammering on it.

What are you planning for fuel upgrades? Are you upgrading the ignition at all?

And wait, did you say you wanted to shave the head?? Why would you do that? You'd be much better off with lower compression for boost. I hope you just mean they're shaving it very little just to give it a fresh surface so it'll sit perfectly flat on the block.

Which turbo are you using?

[Headstrong2740]

Originally Posted by Spilner521

If you're only going to run 10 psi, you didn't even need those forged internals. It's a good thing you have them though, as soon as you get a feel for the boost, you'll want more and more, and with a built engine, you can push a lot of power. Just make sure you get a good tune before you start hammering on it.

What are you planning for fuel upgrades? Are you upgrading the ignition at all?

And wait, did you say you wanted to shave the head?? Why would you do that? You'd be much better off with lower compression for boost. I hope you just mean they're shaving it very little just to give it a fresh surface so it'll sit perfectly flat on the block.

Which turbo are you using?

yeah i ment they are shavingit to sit perfectly on the block.LOL the turbo right now is only a T3/T4 or T04 its called

i know i wont need the upgraded internals..yet.... but i will later
not sure what to do with fuel yet or ignition... any ideas? i havent looked into those ...yet

[Headstrong2740]

ok here are some picsi promissed incuding a shot of the area im working in.



on one pic you can see the bearing and how bad it was... poor bearing.. never stood a chance

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by Headstrong2740

yeah i ment they are shavingit to sit perfectly on the block.LOL the turbo right now is only a T3/T4 or T04 its called

i know i wont need the upgraded internals..yet.... but i will later
not sure what to do with fuel yet or ignition... any ideas? i havent looked into those ...yet

Actually that T3/T04 will be plenty, depending on the a/r's of the housings and compressor wheel trim, and should spool very quick. Do you know if it's a T04E or T04B compressor? And also which trim it is? I have a bunch of specs for different turbos, so if you let me know the dimensions, I could tell you how much power it's good for.

You really won't need to change the ignition at all at 10psi, so if you wanted you could wait 'til later to upgrade to the MSD DIS2 with boost retard, or you could do it now and get it over with, it's all up to you. Just get some good plugs like Denso Iridiums and make sure you get at least 1 step colder than stock.

For fuel you have a few options. You could use larger injectors to replace the stockers and then use HPTuners to idle and run them. Then change the MAP voltage to use a 2 BAR MAP and kind of trick the PCM into seeing boost. This way is sort of like the GM supercharger reflash.

You could also use 4 extra injectors in addition to leaving the stockers in place. You would get aluminum injector holders and weld them individually into each runner of the HO manifold, pop in the injectors and top them off with a fuel rail. Then split the stock fuel line with a Y or T fitting and run the extra end to the extra fuel rail. You'll also need an injector controller like the SDS EIC (http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html). It works independantly of everything and fires the extra injectors when boost hits. While not in boost, the engine runs perfectly stock on the stock fuel system.

Then there's using a piggyback fuel computer like the Apexi SAFC unit to idle and run larger injectors, along with the BEGI adjustable FMU to add fuel while in boost. If you choose this route, make sure you get a high pressure fuel pump, since the FMU raises the pressure considerably.

[DOHC_tuner]

Wow nice job I didn't know you were that far. But good job, you should take a pic with the crank(just for fun I see it as a tuner pic )Are you going to get the secret cams and the HO intake manifold, also try and install the 086 head if you can get your hands on one. Once you put everything back watch how much torque you put on the head bolts and the cam housing bolts. My cam housing bolts had messed up threads so I had to add a new thread maker whatever its called to some of the bolts. Good Luck

[Oldsman]

Originally Posted by DOHC_tuner

Wow nice job I didn't know you were that far. But good job, you should take a pic with the crank(just for fun I see it as a tuner pic )Are you going to get the secret cams and the HO intake manifold, also try and install the 086 head if you can get your hands on one. Once you put everything back watch how much torque you put on the head bolts and the cam housing bolts. My cam housing bolts had messed up threads so I had to add a new thread maker whatever its called to some of the bolts. Good Luck

yea lets put the 086 head on and jump compression up to 11.4:1 and then boost it...............smart idea

if you use the correct torque that GM says to use on the head bolts and cam towers and also remove and install in the correct pattern you won't have any problems. I sure didn't. You have to have all the information before you do something you've never done.

[Headstrong2740]

Originally Posted by Oldsman

yea lets put the 086 head on and jump compression up to 11.4:1 and then boost it...............smart idea

if you use the correct torque that GM says to use on the head bolts and cam towers and also remove and install in the correct pattern you won't have any problems. I sure didn't. You have to have all the information before you do something you've never done.

Yeah i have been unistalling everthing in the correct patterns and stuff and have all the specs on torq and install pattern as well.... piked up a tear down manual for the engine so i do it all the right way. Im keeping the head stock for now.. but i am getting my hands on the HO intake and have the secret cams as well going in.... Im about to head out into the shop and get the craddles all set up and built so when the head and block come back ill start putting it all together
i wont see the block or crank for about another week... the shop is supper busy with everyone doing engines for their race cars and tuners. But... as soon as i get it.. i wont really stop working on it till its about done and put back together. GOD that will be a long day and night. unless it goes really smoothly

[spyhunter]

Originally Posted by Spilner521

Actually that T3/T04 will be plenty, depending on the a/r's of the housings and compressor wheel trim, and should spool very quick. Do you know if it's a T04E or T04B compressor? And also which trim it is? I have a bunch of specs for different turbos, so if you let me know the dimensions, I could tell you how much power it's good for.

You really won't need to change the ignition at all at 10psi, so if you wanted you could wait 'til later to upgrade to the MSD DIS2 with boost retard, or you could do it now and get it over with, it's all up to you. Just get some good plugs like Denso Iridiums and make sure you get at least 1 step colder than stock.

For fuel you have a few options. You could use larger injectors to replace the stockers and then use HPTuners to idle and run them. Then change the MAP voltage to use a 2 BAR MAP and kind of trick the PCM into seeing boost. This way is sort of like the GM supercharger reflash.

You could also use 4 extra injectors in addition to leaving the stockers in place. You would get aluminum injector holders and weld them individually into each runner of the HO manifold, pop in the injectors and top them off with a fuel rail. Then split the stock fuel line with a Y or T fitting and run the extra end to the extra fuel rail. You'll also need an injector controller like the SDS EIC (http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html). It works independantly of everything and fires the extra injectors when boost hits. While not in boost, the engine runs perfectly stock on the stock fuel system.

Then there's using a piggyback fuel computer like the Apexi SAFC unit to idle and run larger injectors, along with the BEGI adjustable FMU to add fuel while in boost. If you choose this route, make sure you get a high pressure fuel pump, since the FMU raises the pressure considerably.

2.4L Alero.... so you can run the GM S/C flash no problem.
Get HPTuners, go to the tune repository, download the 2.4L GM S/C data, upload it to your car, swap your 1bar map to the 2bar map, add some injectors 440s let's you grow to 300hp+ range, and tune it up, HOLY CRAP no messing around w/ map sensor trickery, FMU's, piggybacks, NADA!!!!!

For the ignition side, get some NGK TR6's, gap them toss 'em in, enjoy.

[DOHC_tuner]

Originally Posted by Oldsman

yea lets put the 086 head on and jump compression up to 11.4:1 and then boost it...............smart idea

if you use the correct torque that GM says to use on the head bolts and cam towers and also remove and install in the correct pattern you won't have any problems. I sure didn't. You have to have all the information before you do something you've never done.

thicker head gasket to reduce the compression slightly

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by spyhunter

2.4L Alero.... so you can run the GM S/C flash no problem.
Get HPTuners, go to the tune repository, download the 2.4L GM S/C data, upload it to your car, swap your 1bar map to the 2bar map, add some injectors 440s let's you grow to 300hp+ range, and tune it up, HOLY CRAP no messing around w/ map sensor trickery, FMU's, piggybacks, NADA!!!!!

For the ignition side, get some NGK TR6's, gap them toss 'em in, enjoy.

Ahh...didn't know it was that easy to get the GM reflash. That would be the way to go!

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by DOHC_tuner

thicker head gasket to reduce the compression slightly

Doesn't work that way. If you drop compression from 11.4:1 to the stock 9.7:1 with a head gasket, it would be so thick that it would stretch the timing chain and throw timing way out of wack, and that's if you could use that thick of a head gasket at all. Basically if you're going boost, the 086 head is out of the question. Just port the stock head and you'll be good to go.

[Oldsman]

Originally Posted by Spilner521

Doesn't work that way. If you drop compression from 11.4:1 to the stock 9.7:1 with a head gasket, it would be so thick that it would stretch the timing chain and throw timing way out of wack, and that's if you could use that thick of a head gasket at all. Basically if you're going boost, the 086 head is out of the question. Just port the stock head and you'll be good to go.

exactly. thicker head gasket will screw things up more.

[Headstrong2740]

im avoiding the 086 head and thick gasket.. i had already taken the chain part into consideration. the headwill be ported... just not right away... kinda working on a budget and i figure i will get the car up and running and upgraded as much as i can right now... the rest will come as the summer goes.... hope to be able to post up numbers and updates as the summer drags on for you guys.... be sure to watch your rearview for me... ill only be there for a very short period before you see my tail lights

[Headstrong2740]

little side note.... took me and a buddy 7 hours to pull the tranny and engine out... with just hand tools.... i think thats impressive... and i took the motor apart in roughly 8 - 10 hours myself with only hand tools.... had an air compressor but it didnt produce enough to help at all.... POS

thought id throw that out there ... motivation will make you only work harder and faster and i have lots of motivation

[DOHC_tuner]

im planning to rebuild my engine with high comp pistons and the 086 head, but I guess i wont be able to go turbo cause the pistons and head. But I want boost, so im still a little undecided. But none the less im still going to begin rebuilding the engine, first need to find a cheap lil cav as tranportation. I hope to start tommorrow.

[Headstrong2740]

Originally Posted by DOHC_tuner

im planning to rebuild my engine with high comp pistons and the 086 head, but I guess i wont be able to go turbo cause the pistons and head. But I want boost, so im still a little undecided. But none the less im still going to begin rebuilding the engine, first need to find a cheap lil cav as tranportation. I hope to start tommorrow.

haha my transportation consist of my feet and my friends i hate it.. but i dont feel like renting or buying another car for only a short period

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by DOHC_tuner

im planning to rebuild my engine with high comp pistons and the 086 head, but I guess i wont be able to go turbo cause the pistons and head. But I want boost, so im still a little undecided. But none the less im still going to begin rebuilding the engine, first need to find a cheap lil cav as tranportation. I hope to start tommorrow.

High compression pistons and the 086 head don't mix unless you also plan to run C16 on a daily basis. It's either one or the other and then you'll need to use 91 or 93 octane, whichever one is the highest you can get. Also, when you raise the compression, boost is pretty much out of the question.

So you can A) raise the compression with either the 086 head or high compression pistons and go all motor or B) keep stock or drop compression and go with boost.

I'm not trying to steer you away or anything, but the 086 head is not the hands down answer to a high flowing head. Getting the stock head ported will provide much better flow than the 086 and you won't have to worry about all the problems with high compression or thicker head gaskets. There's also other cam options out there, so you're not limited to only the HO or secret cams.

[Headstrong2740]

Originally Posted by Spilner521

High compression pistons and the 086 head don't mix unless you also plan to run C16 on a daily basis. It's either one or the other and then you'll need to use 91 or 93 octane, whichever one is the highest you can get. Also, when you raise the compression, boost is pretty much out of the question.

So you can A) raise the compression with either the 086 head or high compression pistons and go all motor or B) keep stock or drop compression and go with boost.

I'm not trying to steer you away or anything, but the 086 head is not the hands down answer to a high flowing head. Getting the stock head ported will provide much better flow than the 086 and you won't have to worry about all the problems with high compression or thicker head gaskets. There's also other cam options out there, so you're not limited to only the HO or secret cams.

any ideas on other cams guys??? Im having one hell of a time finding this intake cam from the 95 HO grand am...... if anyone has links where i can buy it new let me know.. i have the exhaust... .. REMINDER.. I WANT IT NEW!! lol Im also looking still for an idea of what Tuner or GM flash to use. links there will help to.. i know there is prolly other threads listing this.. but i dont want to search cause im triing to do so many things. GOD im stressing out over this now

[spyhunter]

Originally Posted by Headstrong2740

any ideas on other cams guys??? Im having one hell of a time finding this intake cam from the 95 HO grand am...... if anyone has links where i can buy it new let me know.. i have the exhaust... .. REMINDER.. I WANT IT NEW!! lol Im also looking still for an idea of what Tuner or GM flash to use. links there will help to.. i know there is prolly other threads listing this.. but i dont want to search cause im triing to do so many things. GOD im stressing out over this now

tuning... www.hptuners.com ... I can send you the GM reflash whenever you get hptuners, so you can upload it to your car and get yourself on yourway. Super easy. Or you can go to the dealership, and have them reflash your car w/ the GMPP performance flash for the supercharger. THey may bitch, and they'll charge you $100 plus or minus $20.

W/ hptuners, it allows you to fine tune the flash to whatever fuel injectors you're running, and boost setup. It's great, gives you adjustability and fine tunability.

You're supposed to search, how do you think I managed to figure all this stuff out? Just asking for everybody to answer for me? I've had people volunteer more WRONG answers to me than right ones. DOHC_Tuner is always willing to provide an answer, but his grasp on things isn't all that good from what I have been seeing. So you have to search around talk with people that actually DO know, and come up to what works out best for you.

[Headstrong2740]

yeah i figured that but i was hoping maybe some one had a link to a place i could buy the cam... i searched for four hours today on my laptop and basically wanted to throw it out the window. I went to GM parts Direct but the engine code on the 2.3 they had was "d" and i think its supposed to be an "A" ... or am i wrong and thats the cam i want? cause if it is the one i want... i want those 3:55 minutes of my life back but yeah i plan on buying the HPtuner and yeah if you can send the gm flash that would be pretty f-ing hot LOL