Turbo VS SuperCharge... - Page 3

Spilner521 · 12-21-2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1alero

your right, but regardless if you have a turbo rated for 1300hp, the thing is so damn big that it dont matter how high of a stall converter you got, your still not gonna see boost till higher RPMs, but once you do hit the boost, hold the eff on!

Well, then don't get a turbo rated for 1300hp. On a street car...ok let's say on an Alero...you're not going to get into turbos anywhere near as big as your thinking. A T3/T4 turbo is plenty big enough on stock internals no matter which engine you have. And if your engine is built and can take the power, it'll still be plenty big, you just need to pick the right turbine and compressor housings and trim level. Making a lot of power with a quick spooling turbo is as easy as doing a little research and selecting the right turbo for your engine before you spend the money on it.

number1alero · 12-21-2006, 11:26 PM

^i understand your never gonna get an alero running a 1300hp turbo, but im just saying in general the higher the horsepower rating, the more lag you will get, no matter what you do stall converter wise or matching things up,

thats why ive strayed away from my supra, cause once those cars are built for such high HP applications, they are terrible for racing cause you gotta rev them so high to get the boost....which will shorten the engine lifespan no matter what is done to the internals, or at least require a lot more maintenance

IMHO turbos and superchargers, again i think its all about the specific application your using...cause a V8 or whatnot that requires twin turbos would probably see a cheaper route going with a supercharger....and its all about personal preference

but on an alero, turbo is the only thing that makes sense to me really

CiscoPath · 12-21-2006, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1alero

^umm i think ur confused

Actually, i'm not..........not now anyway. I posted that before getting all the info from you guys. But i get it now

Spilner521 · 12-21-2006, 11:34 PM

Not necessarily. That's why they make ball bearing turbos, to improve spool up for larger, high hp turbos. But even without the ball bearings, you just match the right housings with the right wheels and it won't take 10 minutes to spool the turbo.

Obviously this is a topic of high debate, not just here but anywhere in the world of turbos. I'm not trying to talk down to anyone and say you're 100% wrong, just trying share what I've learned so that others can learn as well. It all comes down to sizing.

b-spot · 12-21-2006, 11:35 PM

I'd like to think I'm one of the least biased guys on this topic since I'm running a supercharged Ecotec....

TURBO!!!

Spilner521 · 12-21-2006, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-spot

I'd like to think I'm one of the least biased guys on this topic since I'm running a supercharged Ecotec....

TURBO!!!

I agree...you should swap to a snail

BlackJack · 12-22-2006, 01:32 AM

it's not all as difficult as it's made out to be. I'm running way bigger turbo than anyone else has tried on an Alero. Freaking T70 / 83 trim. I'm having no issues on it so far even up to 15psi. Only thing on the fuel system that's been changed out is the injectors (42.5#)

I was told by some idiots on another forum that thought they knew everything about turbos - that it would never even spool. I got banned on the site for the whole conversation because I proved my point with a compressor map, and they got mad like a bunch of children.

So trust me when I tell you. A T3/T4 with about 70 trim is perfect for reasonable street performance, but if you wanna rock out with your rooster out.....the 3400 can take much more. I'm all stock internals, and most of the 3400's that have been blown up happened at about 8psi. Tune is everything, and in either application (turbo vs. S/C) a boost referenced AFPR will more than likely do the trick. Just have to pick the right stuff and dont half-ass it.

super white alero1 · 12-22-2006, 12:51 PM

BJ I thought you were doing a TT setup.

And I also I agree a turbo has many advantage which BJ and Spy and Spliner has stated over a supercharger. But it really depends on how much of a technical savvy you are. I would not recommend a turbo setup to a novice DIYer. It much easier to purchase a superchager and have GM reflash you PCM to 2 bar, if you have no freakin clue how to setup and program boost.

The mimimal requirement Im sure everyone know for a turbo is a BOV(by-pass valve, pressure release valve), a waste gate, a custom manifold.

Now with the miminal you may not surpass a supercharger, in the performance catergory. So let add a bigger exhaust system(full catback), a tuner system(DHP, HP tuner, etc..), intercooler(knocking), bigger injector, FPR, MAP sensor, built motor. Then start tuning from here. That where the money time and effort will yield results.

The continuing banter is pointless. In terms of which is better, you have to factor in which is important to you, Cost, time, brain power. Also remember what kind of engine you equiping this to, and what application. For drifting/autocross, you may think about a supercharger, for oval/drag a turbo is best.

my $.02

12-23-2006, 08:46 PM

^^well what about a daily driver?

Cliff8928 · 12-23-2006, 11:37 PM

Supercharger FTW for daily drivers. I had a lady come in for some oil for her Audi. She was buying 20W50 for her A4 1.8T because the turbo seals were gone. I suggested that she should let it idle for approximately a minute before shutting it off to let the turbo cool down. I got the response of "I don't have time for that."

alerored04 · 12-24-2006, 02:20 AM

thats not the fault of the turbo, thats because a stupid bitch of a lady drives it. If you treat them nice turbo will last. I had a GF with a 1st gen talon tsi, man was i jealous of that car, she treated it great too, always a 5-10 min warmup depending on temp and always a 5 min cool down. Its got 180,000 on it now and the only problem is a little valve tick which those dsm motors are infamous for anyways.

ilpopilpo · 12-24-2006, 08:10 AM

I vote for Turbo and Black Jack.

---------------------------
Alero -99 4door V6

Cliff8928 · 12-25-2006, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alerored04

thats not the fault of the turbo, thats because a stupid bitch of a lady drives it. If you treat them nice turbo will last. I had a GF with a 1st gen talon tsi, man was i jealous of that car, she treated it great too, always a 5-10 min warmup depending on temp and always a 5 min cool down. Its got 180,000 on it now and the only problem is a little valve tick which those dsm motors are infamous for anyways.

Yes, I agree it was the drivers fault. However superchargers don't need that level of attention.

12-25-2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilpopilpo

I vote for Turbo and Black Jack.
---------------------------
Alero -99 4door V6

^^^^^AGREED

So S/C for the daily driver,and turbo for the weekend?

Spilner521 · 12-25-2006, 11:37 AM

Turbo for daily driver...that's what mine is. I drive it everyday and haven't had any problems. As for not having time to wait for a cool down, that's what turbo timers are for. If you're putting together your own turbo system, spend the extra 150-200 bucks and get a turbo timer. You set the time for a few minutes then when you park somwhere, you turn off the ignition and walk away. The turbo timer will allow the engine to idle for your preset time after taking out the key. And if you're worried about someone breaking in and driving away, you hook up the kill switch wire to the brake pedal or e-brake, that way as soon as someone would go to put the car in gear or release the e-brake, the engine shuts off.

alerored04 · 12-25-2006, 12:35 PM

/\ Exactly, she wanted a turbo timer but never found the spare cash for one. IMO if you dont have time to be nice to your car and let it warm up and cool down you have no business with a turbo car anyway. If you dont want to "waste" that couple of minutes you def should get a supercharger instead. Its all about the pride you take in your vehicle and if you will take care of it.

Cliff8928 · 12-25-2006, 11:17 PM

Unfortunately you'd have to disconnect one of the cables on the 5-speed cars because they need to be in reverse to get the key out. So without bypassing that (which is a FMVSS requirement), no turbo timer.

Heck, as long as you take your last couple minutes of driving out of the boost, then you're fine.

Spilner521 · 12-26-2006, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff8928

Unfortunately you'd have to disconnect one of the cables on the 5-speed cars because they need to be in reverse to get the key out. So without bypassing that (which is a FMVSS requirement), no turbo timer.

Heck, as long as you take your last couple minutes of driving out of the boost, then you're fine.

Good call....didnt' even think of the 5 speed. Then again, we are in the 3400 forum...

But yes, just take it easy the last few minutes of your trip and you can just pull in, shut it off and walk away without any damaging effects.

BadFrog · 12-26-2006, 04:32 PM

Regarding turbos would it be possible to use a rear mounted turbo setup, similar to the STS twin turbo Corvette, with the 3400 thereby bypassing the need for an intercooler? Would the 3400 be able to spool a turbo so far from the engine or is there not enough exahust flow?

natedawg9640 · 12-26-2006, 04:49 PM

i think it would... it might just have i little bit more lag... afterall... there is just as MUCH exhaust at the tail pipe as there is at the headers... the distance between the rear mount however allows for more exhaust compression before it spools the turbo...