"manual Shifting" An Automatic Is Slower!!!

Alright, I know there has been a lot of debate on whether it's worth it or not to "manual shift" an automatic (w/ the 6 cylinder..idk about the 4). Even myself has argued that it is better; however, I decided to test it out this past weekend. Though it DOES shift FIRMER, the overall acceleration is SLOWER! Here's why I feel this:

First off, YES this was "illegal street racing". Out in the boonies by my house there is a perfect road that my friends and I use for a drag strip when testing mods and times and whatnot. My friend wrecked his grand am gt and so they gave him a Monte Carlo SS (not s/c) as a rental car. We decided to see how I ran against it (1/4 times are supposed to be close). We raced 5 times the first 2 I did the 2nd gear start and manually shifted into 3rd at the very end and the Monte SS beat me by about a car..car and a 1/2. The last 3 races, I said F* it and left it in drive and didn't touch the shifter. The 3rd race I lit up my tires and he got about a car off the start ahead of me and I STILL came back and won by a little less than a car ahead of him. The last 2 races I got a good start and beat him by about 2 cars. My final conclusion after all this is that even though doing a 2nd gear start or manual shifting an automatic will give FIRMER shifts, it is overall SLOWER than just leaving it in Drive.

I just felt I'd voice my 2 cents of this whole thing because every1 has (had) their beliefs in what is faster or not. I am just waiting to see how my 1/4 mile times will change once it warms up and the track opens again

Adam

[Vtolds]

I think it is probably true for drag racing but for road racing probably shifting manually is better because it keeps the RPM's in the torque range because we all know that the auto sometimes doesnt downshift right and gives almost no acceleration even floored.

[FormulaNERD]

besides, you're starting in 2, and manually shifting from there, i only have an 1/8th mile track (and only use 1 and 2) so i cant comment on the 2-3 shift, but i've done manual and auto many times at the track, and get better results manual shifting (as long as i dont bounce off the limiter )

[Vtolds]

I hate when I hit my limiter it sounds like poop and probably isnt great for the motor or tranny.

The limiter is there because it's the highest you can safely go. So it's not hurting anything other than your time.

[FormulaNERD]

yea, lindsey is right... and the 3.4 does sound god awful at 5900+

[mike2002]

doesn't the dhp move the shifts to 6000/6050? so it sounds like crap up there? im shifting at 5800 now, but i noticed when i put the cai on, right away i noticed my car sounded like it was going to explode at 5800...lol

the rev limiter is at 6000 isn't it?

[ptrudel]

well i dunno about the 3.4, but the 2.4's limiter is up right about 6500rpm...at least thats what the needle says...

[Vtolds]

Yeah the minute my tach hits 6500, it sounds like crap I dont know how to explain it but most 2.4 owners have probably heard the sound it makes.

[ptrudel]

Originally posted by VTOLDS@Jan 18 2005, 08:09 PM
Yeah the minute my tach hits 6500, it sounds like crap I dont know how to explain it but most 2.4 owners have probably heard the sound it makes.

i think it just "kills" the cylinders....almost sounds same as when the ETS makes your wheels turn slower cuz you're slipping...or maybe it is the same :unsure:

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by mike2002@Jan 18 2005, 05:40 PM
doesn't the dhp move the shifts to 6000/6050? so it sounds like crap up there? im shifting at 5800 now, but i noticed when i put the cai on, right away i noticed my car sounded like it was going to explode at 5800...lol

the rev limiter is at 6000 isn't it?

yes, the DHP moves the shifts from 5800-6000 at WOT, and you will hear the engine.... i guess it's not a horrible sound, just sounds like it shouldnt be that rapped up. you'll also feel the powerband drop dramatically right about the same time.

If you leave it in D1 or D2 and let the thing hit the fuel-cut off, yes it's going to sound bad because it's essentially like letting off the throttle; it's not getting any fuel but still sucking in lots of air.

And I'm sure the 3400 sounds like ass beyond its redline, too.

Also the story about the car being faster in D than in D2 doesnt make any sense at all.. were you not shifting into 3rd soon enough and bouncing off the rev limiter, and THATS why he won? Or is this just some crackpot theory of yours - the car is simply faster, by an entire car length, because it's in D instead of D2?

Originally posted by FormulaNERD@Jan 18 2005, 04:35 PM
besides, you're starting in 2, and manually shifting from there, i only have an 1/8th mile track (and only use 1 and 2) so i cant comment on the 2-3 shift, but i've done manual and auto many times at the track, and get better results manual shifting (as long as i dont bounce off the limiter )

Even when the shifter is in D2 you still start in 1st gear if you have the 3400. second gear starts are not possible as the calibration will not alow them.

[FormulaNERD]

what i was saying is that he's not "manually shifting" because the car still makes the 1-2 shift, not his hand on the shifter.

Originally posted by Final-Reality@Jan 19 2005, 02:15 AM


Also the story about the car being faster in D than in D2 doesnt make any sense at all.. were you not shifting into 3rd soon enough and bouncing off the rev limiter, and THATS why he won? Or is this just some crackpot theory of yours - the car is simply faster, by an entire car length, because it's in D instead of D2?

It's the fact...not a "crack pot theory". If you want..I'll video tape 3 races w/ me doing the 2nd gear start then 3 races w/ the regular D start and let you just see for yourself. I posted this up here for people to see my results of doing each type of start, NOT for ahoes like you to bash on me. And NO I didn't hit the limiter at all..I am good at racing.

I do have a B&M ShiftPlus on my car..MAAAAYB that makes it different. All I know is that MY CAR is faster when left in D rather than manually shifting from 1-2-3 or just from 2-3. If anyone wants to argue about MY CAR..good luck..you don't drive it everyday. :thumbsup:

P.S. If you can show me anywhere it says "D2" on your center consol..I'll be impressed. It's "D, 3, 2, 1"

Also, if it doesn't make any sense at all..then prove me wrong! Lets see ur results.

Wow, with all this technical testing, and results, im suprised your 1/4 mile passes havent been timed with a stopwatch... :rolleyes:

[kwhauck]

Originally posted by 1WhiteOSV+Jan 18 2005, 11:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (1WhiteOSV @ Jan 18 2005, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Final-Reality@Jan 19 2005, 02:15 AM


Also the story about the car being faster in D than in D2 doesnt make any sense at all.. were you not shifting into 3rd soon enough and bouncing off the rev limiter, and THATS why he won? Or is this just some crackpot theory of yours - the car is simply faster, by an entire car length, because it's in D instead of D2?

It's the fact...not a "crack pot theory". If you want..I'll video tape 3 races w/ me doing the 2nd gear start then 3 races w/ the regular D start and let you just see for yourself. I posted this up here for people to see my results of doing each type of start, NOT for ahoes like you to bash on me. And NO I didn't hit the limiter at all..I am good at racing.

I do have a B&M ShiftPlus on my car..MAAAAYB that makes it different. All I know is that MY CAR is faster when left in D rather than manually shifting from 1-2-3 or just from 2-3. If anyone wants to argue about MY CAR..good luck..you don't drive it everyday. :thumbsup:

P.S. If you can show me anywhere it says "D2" on your center consol..I'll be impressed. It's "D, 3, 2, 1"

Also, if it doesn't make any sense at all..then prove me wrong! Lets see ur results. [/b][/quote]
eh..............the best way to drag race (legally) is to leave it in 3rd the whole time, traction off of course..............

^^^ ya I was going to say something similar. I was going to say that I would put it into 2nd at the start, then as soon as it shifts out of first into second put it in 3. I dont really know but putting it in 2 seems to make a firmer shift than any other gear. I havent actually timed anything but doing it that way just seems to work the best for racing.

Originally posted by 2000NavyAleroGLS@Jan 19 2005, 08:03 PM
^^^ ya I was going to say something similar. I was going to say that I would put it into 2nd at the start, then as soon as it shifts out of first into second put it in 3. I dont really know but putting it in 2 seems to make a firmer shift than any other gear. I havent actually timed anything but doing it that way just seems to work the best for racing.

obviously every1 hasnt gotten the point to this thread.......yea, it's firmer...but slower (2nd gear start).

And AleroSS: there's nothing technical about losing to a car twice in a row doing one thing then WINNING 3 times in a row doing another...it's common sense.

[Vtolds]

Could be just the driver someone my have quicker reflexes than you and are able to put shift it up the gears quicker than the computer can react to the rpms. Personally I like to manually shift my auto especailly in the twisties.