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Old 06-26-2008, 12:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by lonnie View Post
Well that is good then Cherry if it is still shorted out with the dimmer module out. Then that means that we have eliminated the problem from the dimmer module to the dimmer switch and then to the auto park relay. With that said we eliminated that side of the module and the only thing on the other side are the lights. I know its going to be a bitch to trace those wires out but it looks like indeed thats what you are going to have to do, while you are at it there should be a 2amp fuse for the CRUISE SW LPS (2A) in the passenger side fuse box...check this for any signs of damage. I see in the drawing that the controls on the steering wheel and the transaxle shift indicator light are grounded in the same splice pack. Are your steering controls working? Here is where I would go with the trouble shooting now Cherry. We know 1 or 2 things here either there is a connection that is shorting out the circuit or a bulb even the socket the bulb is in or maybe a wrong bulb in any even this is what I would do.
Here is a list of bulbs that are in the circuit, and you can pull them out according to which ones are easier to get to.
1. Transaxle Shift indicator
2. I/P Compartment Lamp
3. Radio only for the 2000 and 2001 though
4. Steering wheel controls and there are two coils on either side of this lamp called (inflatable restraint steering wheel module coil) but only on the 2000 and 2001
5. HVAC control assembly
6. Hazard switch
7. Instrument cluster (5bulbs)
8. Power mirror switch
9. Left power window switch
10. Right front door lock switch
11. Right front power window switch
12. Right front door lock switch
13. Left front door lock switch

Now I would start taking them out one at a time and test to see if it is still shorted out. Here's my thinking on this again, either a bulb is shorted which isn't the most common problem, but is highly likely in this situation. It could also be a shorted light socket. Either way it has to be in the wiring between all the lights listed and dimmer module especially since it was still shorted once the dimmer module was taken out.


I'll do that, but first i want to find where the gray wire goes to (transaxle light power wire) since thats what caused the problem in the first place, so i'll trace that back and find out where it leads to. the problem must be some where along that run. Every few feet, i'll cut it, and see if its still shorted on each end.

and most of the bulbs in the location you listed are tiny halogens, so if they shorted, they'd just blow, and break the connection... so i don't think they can short and cause a permanent ground on both wires...

and w/ the dimmer module excluded from the issue, doesn't that mean the problem is somewhere in the dash? it can't be before the module, or that would have fixed the problem when it was disconnected...
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Old 06-27-2008, 01:44 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherrington17 View Post
I'll do that, but first i want to find where the gray wire goes to (transaxle light power wire) since thats what caused the problem in the first place, so i'll trace that back and find out where it leads to. the problem must be some where along that run. Every few feet, i'll cut it, and see if its still shorted on each end.

and most of the bulbs in the location you listed are tiny halogens, so if they shorted, they'd just blow, and break the connection... so i don't think they can short and cause a permanent ground on both wires...

and w/ the dimmer module excluded from the issue, doesn't that mean the problem is somewhere in the dash? it can't be before the module, or that would have fixed the problem when it was disconnected...

That gray wire goes back to pin C of the dimmer module with all the other dimming wires. In order to rule out the module, you would have to probe for voltage at pin C (gray) at the module with the lights on.
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:52 AM   #43
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the module still works, but kicks on the SVS light when it does turn on. but w/o the module connected, and the wires still being shorted, i can assume that the module isn't the problem. (if it was, when i disconnected, they wouldn't be shorted) unless i'm missing something?
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:01 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by cherrington17 View Post
I'll do that, but first i want to find where the gray wire goes to (transaxle light power wire) since thats what caused the problem in the first place, so i'll trace that back and find out where it leads to. the problem must be some where along that run. Every few feet, i'll cut it, and see if its still shorted on each end.

and most of the bulbs in the location you listed are tiny halogens, so if they shorted, they'd just blow, and break the connection... so i don't think they can short and cause a permanent ground on both wires...

and w/ the dimmer module excluded from the issue, doesn't that mean the problem is somewhere in the dash? it can't be before the module, or that would have fixed the problem when it was disconnected...
With the dimmer module excluded from the issue that means that the problem lies in in the wires from the dimmer module to the lights. They are all on the same circuit so you have to have one of the grey wires that run to the lights shorted some how. Also like I said it is unlikely but highly possible if you blew a fuse for a bulb to short out, now if your using halogens maybe not, but what about the sockets? Did you check all of your solder connections? Double check all connections. Also Cliff metinoned ruling out the module, well if you truly unpluged it that would cause in open in the circuit and you shouldn't read any continuity from any grey to ground, if so then it is still shorted of course. In short it is logical to assume that if you unplugged the module and you tested any grey wire and you had continuity then it eliminates(sp?) the module, dimmer switch, and auto park lamp relay, so yes it can't be before the module because unplugging it would have solved the problem. Thats not to say the problem isn't still under the dash cause the majority of that stuff runs in harnesses under the dash.

List of logic:
1: We know that you unplugged the dimmer module.
2: We know that if you unplugged the dimmer module, and the wire still tested as a short then the problem isn't before the dimmer module.

I also just thought of a way to make this alot easier. On the passenger side fuse panel when you open that up there is a long clear piece of plastic with holes in it, and if you take that off and look it has all the wires for the lamps right there and each leg of the circuit is coded, now Cherry you could cut there and eliminate each leg there and wouldn't have to go under the dash..give me a sec and I'll take a pic and post, but first let me give you the pin numbers

Compartment lamp/Radio ~ E6
Transaxle lamp ~ F7
Cruise Sw Lps ~ A7
Hvac control ~ B7 C1
Hazard and instrument cluster ~ B8 C2
Left front power windo and power mirror switch ~ B5
Right front door lock switch, Right front power window switch ~ C5
Left front door lock switch ~ C3
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:04 AM   #45
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...double post but here is the pic. All of the lamp wires (grey) run to the fuse block through this harness. Which is a bonus. Should make trouble shooting alot easier.
Attachment 4490
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:24 AM   #46
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i tried taking those off (the two on the back of that panel) and they only seemed to loosen... is there a trick to getting those things off?

but i'll definitely have to try those. hopefully i can just cut one, solve all the problems and leave it at that. but i won't have time to even look at it, until at least sunday afternoon....
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:29 AM   #47
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ARGH. damn website errors.
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:25 AM   #48
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i tried taking those off (the two on the back of that panel) and they only seemed to loosen... is there a trick to getting those things off?

but i'll definitely have to try those. hopefully i can just cut one, solve all the problems and leave it at that. but i won't have time to even look at it, until at least sunday afternoon....
Are you talking about the plastic cover or the whole fuse panel? You may be able to do what you want just by getting at the wires in the harness but if you want to take it off I would have to look some more. I've never had a need to take the fuse box out. If how ever you are losening it and its not coming out then you may have to get behind the glove box and see whats back there. May just be a nut that you will have to hold.

...if you can get the fuse box out you may want to closely inspect that cause its possible the short is being generated from there.
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:55 AM   #49
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Loosen the bolt. It shouldn't come completely out, it should stay "attached" to the plastic cover. Then at the top and bottom of the large plug you'll see a small "gap"...just get in there with a small flat screwdriver and lightly pry it out, a little at the top, then a little at the bottom, until it pops out.
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Old 06-27-2008, 11:03 AM   #50
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I was never able to get the clear plastic cover off when I installed my car alarm, I just twisted the plastic cover sideways and accessed any wires I needed that way.
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Old 06-27-2008, 12:08 PM   #51
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IF you get it out and I do mean IF...look for signs of burn damage at the back of it.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:39 PM   #52
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^i'm just talking about the clear plastic piece, not the whole fuse box. but if i have to do that, i suppose i could do that too.

although, the inst lps fuse is the only one on that circuit, and i'm still using that (just w/ a tap now) and its not shorted... so its probably after that....


with that epiphany (that was pretty obvious) being said, i SHOULD be able to locate the right wire, clip it and fix the issue at the fuse box.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:52 PM   #53
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^i'm just talking about the clear plastic piece, not the whole fuse box. but if i have to do that, i suppose i could do that too.
I mean it all depends on how involved your trying to get I wouldn't take the whole fuse box out I don't think its necessary. Don't forget to keep track of what wires you test, and measure you continuity from the wire on the side that goes towards the lights to ground. Not saying you didn't know that already but letting you know. Also there is no need to cut every so few feet if you start at the harness on the passenger side, cause that takes care of the whole leg you are testing

...for example if you cut the wire or if possible pull from the fuse block F7 and test to ground then you have just tested everything in that leg which in this example is the Transaxle shift indicator light. Cherry once you find the short I would test another gray wire before fixing it to ensure it is only one short, and that it indeed cleared the curcuit.
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:59 PM   #54
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oh, of course. i'll be testing each for shorts, on both ends.... just to be sure. i sure as hell hope its only the transaxel light wire that causing the issue.
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:22 PM   #55
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whelp... its not.



I found all the brown wires coming OUT of the fuse block, and cut them all. from left to right, the first 3, and the last 2 are all shorted. the middle ones aren't.


so does that mean its the relays in the front of the car that got cooked?


also, when i cut these, the transaxel light is no longer shorted. so its defintely downstream from where i was looking.

hooray for progress! boo for where its pointing.
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:49 PM   #56
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So let me make sure I understand. From looking at the picture the top wires appear to be coming from the fuse block and the ones at the bottom seem to be running to the lights. Are you saying that the wires at the bottom are still shorted? You could pull the fuses and test from fuse the the end of the suspected wires if it is still shorted that would point to the fuse box, that's if the top wires run to the fuse box and thats what tested as a short. Sorry I'm simple but if the wires that you have at the bottom there are the light wires the only way they could short is if the bulb has shorted or the insulation was melted off. I also think one of those wires could have been the the dimmer module wire.......

you know what it doesn't make sense. looking athe picture did you test the top wires from there to chasis ground, and did you test the bottom wires from there to chasis ground?
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:44 PM   #57
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Ok I just went to my car and first thing I noticed is that I only have 7 wires not nine. Second there is a ground spice pack in the upper left corner of the fuse panel and another under the carpet on the floor pan just before the b pillar. Any test in reference to ground I would make from either of those two points. Third the wires from the fuse block run up under the seat and possiblely back up front which I still think is the light side. There is a harnes wrapped in black cloth tape in the upper left side of the panel as well but it tucked pretty good so it doesn't stand out. Now Test each wire, and I hope you know where they go, but anyway test from the bottom room of each wire to the screw holding down either one of the splice packs..this will give you the best known ground, and see if they are still shorted, also what kind of meter do you have is it a DMM or anolog and are you using the tone to check?
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:02 PM   #58
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yes. DMM and using continuity tone, for checking. (so i don't have to look, can i can just listen)

(just for reference, that is the bundle of wires that come out of the front bottom of the fuse block, and travel down under the kick panel. I took that kick panel off and cut the black electrical tape like stuff off of those, and found those wires)
the top are the ones coming out of the fuse block, and after cut, did not have any that shorted.

The bottoms are what are going back into the engine, and 5 were shorted. I also went back and check the primary wire that burned up, and after cut, it no longer was a short.

Those couldn't be the wires that run to lights in the door or on that side, as they are brown, which, according to the haynes reference sheet, are the ones that head up into the fuse block in the engine.

so the next issue is, did it cook a relay?
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:44 PM   #59
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ok... i went out and double checked.. (more thoughout this time)

and same as above, but i doublechecked...

wires going to the little grid (the grid in the clear plastic piece)
A1/A3 are NOT shorted, at the fuse block
A2/B1/C1 are shorted at the fuse block

and now, my lights won't turn on, which means, when i resoldered those wires, i apparently didn't match up the right ones to the right ones. I know the big 3 are good (clearly different sizes) but i'm gonna need to know where the ones i listed go to, after the fuse block... so i can possibly reconnect them again.

dumb move on my part.
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Old 06-28-2008, 12:44 AM   #60
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yes. DMM and using continuity tone, for checking. (so i don't have to look, can i can just listen)

Were you doing that with the bulbs still plugged in?
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