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Old 03-27-2010, 10:08 PM   #21
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blah, gm was packed an won't be able to take the car til monday. in the meantime i'm still getting 17-19mpg.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:24 AM   #22
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Would be best to get a live data scanner.

There are lots of things that could be wrong.

Does the fuel trim say it's running rich (abve regular, positive percents, however it's displayed on the alero)???
Or is fuel trim normal???

If it's fuel trim, the comp is getting a reading that it needs more gas for some reason..
is your coolant temp sensor working?
intake air temp sensor working?
If those read cold then it'll dump nasty rich in.

If you have an exhaust leak (pre sensor), your o2 sensor will pick up lots of extra o2 on it's reading and dump in fuel to compensate.

Get a scanner and look at live data... if any of the sensors read funny those are prolly your culprit.

If fuel trim is regular something is holding the car back...
Dragging brakes/ ebrake
Tires
wheel bearing making it hard to drive
etc.

Also, as they said, plugs and wires are always a good idea. I gained about 4mpg when I changed plugs in the Aurora.... Gotta see how much voltage each plug is pulling (gonna need a spark analyzer)... Should peak around 8-15kV. If it's more than that you need plugs and or wires.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:57 AM   #23
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no wires on the 2.2.
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeals View Post
How long have you had the headers on? Did you retorque the bolts? I wonder if you have a slight exhaust leak richening up the mixture. It was mentioned before, but how old is the O2 and did you do anything to it when you moved it for the new exhaust? They are supposed to throw a code when they get lazy, but sometimes they can be lazy, but not lazy "enough" for a cel. A live view of sensor output while driving in closed loop would help a lot.

Are you having any drivability issues at all? Even something minor? Slight hesitation? Surging? Popping? Does it happen when warm? Cold?

It would be interesting to reset the pcm to default the fuel trims and see what happens.

hmmmmm this could be on of my few problems w/my engine....header bolts loose...idk. but that was a good post.i have the 3400 though so its a little more PITA Ruby is gettin fixed this week though....thank god. Then.....dare i say.....struts/springs
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:42 PM   #25
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i'll check the headers, but do'nt think thats thatr prob.

i'm hoping it's the air sensors, they didn'tc heck before.

no drivability issures.

pcm hasn't been messed with.
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:58 PM   #26
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wasn't the IAT sensor.

there is no mass airflow sensor on the 2.2.

i did find a leak in the CAI piping, though, which was (99% sure) the cause of the prob.

also put in some new tubing to replace the stock accordion plastic part.

will test it out.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:36 AM   #27
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A leak in the intake WONT cause problems if you don't have a MAF, as long as it's before the throttle plate... then it's just the same air you pull through the filter.

Keep lookin... did ya get to see any of those sensor numbers yet? esp O2..
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:41 AM   #28
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ok after i changed the CAI around a little bit i'm still getting 19mpg freeway.

wtf?
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:06 AM   #29
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O2 sensor... what are it's readings...
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:14 PM   #30
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how would i get teh o2 reading?

is this something the dealership would check? the car isn't throwing any codes.

thnx
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:14 PM   #31
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what kind of mileage are other 2.2 ecos getting?
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:20 PM   #32
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2.2 should get mid 20s in city, 30s highway.

O2 sensor can be read with a digital multimeter.. for voltages.
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:25 PM   #33
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just thought of something, would any of that stuff cause an emissions fail? Just asking cause I just went through emissions no problem, yet I'm getting poor gas mileage.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:40 PM   #34
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O2 could be read with a multimeter on the signal wire, or even better with an oscilloscope to graph the pattern.

On that note.. even more helpful, get the short/long term fuel trim numbers. Find someone with a scanner and get the datastream pulled up.

Chances are you'll see o2 be OK.. probably, but fuel trim will be VERY high. That would indicate clogged injectors or carboned intake/valves. If o2 is reading lean and fuel trim is also reading rich you could have an exhaust leak before the o2 or weak spark. If you have ok o2, but rich fuel trim at idle, rev it up... if fuel trim goes normal you have a vacuum leak.

Start with those if you'd like.

Poor gas mileage could come from many things that won't mess up emissions. Unless the extra gas that's being added is coming out the tail pipe it won't fail. You could have a carboned up intake/valves absorbing all the injecter fuel, requiring it to add more, for example. And remember the cat eats up loooots of HC that would otherwise get let out and fail your emissions if it's running rich (causing poor gas mileage). Too many variables for an exact answer, but it's certainly possible.

Really I can't answer that question again, without the fuel trim numbers / o2 readings. Those are absolutely invaluable for that.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:43 PM   #35
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any pics, faqs, or diagrams on how to test/replace it? what does heated mean, and why the variance on # of wires?

wouldn't this be something the gm dealer would have tested for?
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:58 PM   #36
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For o2 sensors??

O2 sensors read the amount of oxygen in the exhaust. They do that w/ an chemical reation that produces electricity... that needs heat, o2, and zirconium IIRC.

One wires have a signal wire and are grounded to the exhaust w/ the housing
2 wires have a signal and dedicated sensor ground.
3 wires have a heater +/-, and one signal wire
4 wires have a heater +/-, a signal, and a sensor ground.

The heater is there to bring the sensor to temperature faster so it can accurately analyze the exhaust gasses and tell the PCM how to deliver fuel/ timing quicker.

To test it, backprobe the signal wire, and rev the engine for a while to make it hot. Pull up the pattern on an oscilloscope, it should look like this.


Should have about 10 peaks/valley per second. If it only have like 5 or less then it's getting lazy and doesn't read as well, which happens.

If its mostly high, you have a rich condition where too much o2 is being burned.
If it's mostly low, you have a lean condition, which may be from not enough fuel being delivered, incomplete burn, exhaust leak, vacuum leak, etc.

It may be broken and not able to see lean/rich. In your case, it may be stuck on lean.

Inject some propane into the intake, and look for the graph to spike up to rich. That proves it can see rich.
Pull a vac hose, look for the graph to hit the basement, that proves it can see lean.
If it passes those the O2 sensor is ok.

However, depending on the graph you see, we can help you furthe diagnose what's going on.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:12 PM   #37
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so assuming I can't get a hold of anything to test the o2 sensor, start with spark plugs? Makes sense, I don't think they need to be changed but it couldn't hurt. I don't know exactly when my mileage went down, but it was ok before mods, low after intake, exhaust, wheels/tires
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:33 PM   #38
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I'm gettin real shitty mpgs too like 220 miles on a full tank. Haven't checked anything out yet. Plus I think the 2.5" catback is partially to blame but it shouldn't kill my mileage that bad. Haven't changed my plugs since b4 last years ASS
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:36 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heineck View Post
I'm gettin real shitty mpgs too like 220 miles on a full tank. Haven't checked anything out yet. Plus I think the 2.5" catback is partially to blame but it shouldn't kill my mileage that bad. Haven't changed my plugs since b4 last years ASS

I was thinking the 2.5 cat back was doing it too, only other engine mod was WAI, and thought too little back pressure might be causing it.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:47 PM   #40
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i'm taking the car back in next week to have injectors cleaned and o2 sensor checked. i hope that's it.
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