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Old 10-29-2008, 01:01 PM   #21
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And what did the sensor set you back?
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:38 PM   #22
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@alerosaint: not really, i don't notice any difference, but then again i'm more interested in its current poor performance

i just bought the sensor, $52, looks a lot better than my current one. went to midas, they're busy now. gotta go back in an hour. i'd do it myself but, i don't have tools or a lift here, or good wire splicin stuff
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:57 PM   #23
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better off with an O2 sim
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:09 PM   #24
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Uh, no? Why would I want the primary upstream oxygen sensor to be fake?

My downstream after the cat is GONE, disconnected, removed, codes removed from the tune.
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:21 PM   #25
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sorry i misread the post
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:50 PM   #26
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Buy some tools and learn how to do it yourself Ion. You seem to have knowledge on the subject yet lack extreme hands on. I hate that...sorry.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:01 PM   #27
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:02 PM   #28
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You dumbeff. Buy me a effing lift. I'm at a dorm, all my tools are at home.

I effing helped him install everything exhaust-wise, guided through the whole thing, I bolted shit on, I don't weld. I've done EVERYTHING on my car besides welding exhaust work. I've installed parts in freezing weather in the middle of winter. I am also busy with a wide array of other things.

This is also my daily driver and my only car. When something is wrong, it needs to be fixed, asap.

The problem was not solved with the new upstream O2.

Rough idle, wideband spikes to lean when it gets rough, surges while cruising sometime.. all the symptoms of a bad upstream O2 sensor.

If a header nut/stud was loose, or if the header collector flange and downpipe have a leak, could that cause this? I'm sifting through the data log looking for anything that could indicate what the problem is but I don't know...
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:47 PM   #29
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definately if there is a leak in your exhaust system that could cause a false lean reading by the o2 sensor and the computer would compensate for it. but also check for any intake/thottle/vacuum leaks this could cause that too. when I had my 2,4 back in the days and I put the 2,3ho intake manifold, there was a small leak at first and it was doing the same things as you said...
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:40 PM   #30
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yeah i've been lookin hard for those and anything possible that could be wrong. one of the header nuts is cracked, the whole stud came out when we were removing it..
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:45 PM   #31
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it can be that... hope that the new engine will solve the problem
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:10 PM   #32
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O2 sensor is about 4" farther from where it is on the Pacesetter (bung was too close to the trans mount to fit the O2 sensor).

Can that cause this issue? Taking too long for the gases to reach the sensor so it gets delayed response?

I can go back and have em drill a hole on the other side of the collector (180* from where the bung that was plugged is) and weld up a bung and try that...
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:35 PM   #33
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yea...
that could be it
a cars computer is generally all about timing, and i dont know if an HP tune can deal with that kinda problem...
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:37 PM   #34
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I don't think that being 4inches farther could cause that... you can try but I doubt it will change anything. When I had my integra, I've installed a header and had to put the o2 sensor like 18inches farther and it didn't do anything.
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:56 PM   #35
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Well the stock one is only like 6" away from the head. the pacesetter requires the wires to be extended as is, and since I have the Cavalier one, the bung's on the side with no room so we had to make it even farther away (4-6" from where pacesetter's location is)...

Spyhunter's the one who gave me the idea to put it closer to the head.. maybe I should.

I don't feel any gap in the ball joint of the collector to downpipe (just checked, ran my hand around it, seems tight.. uh o_O)...
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:10 PM   #36
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Also, the exhaust is more rumbly now. Sounds like it's getting little bursts of energy every second or so, it thumps.

Like... thump thump ..... thump... which may very well be the effect of having the O2 signal reading a delayed measurement.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:50 PM   #37
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So lately everyone's telling me removing the downstream O2 was a dumb idea, and that closed loop uses it... coincidentally the time we removed it was the time the problems began.

eff. Gotta call Midas tomorrow and see if they still have my downstream O2 so we can weld in a bung for it and reconnect it.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:04 PM   #38
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if it was done that long ago... you'll probably have to buy a new one..
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:13 PM   #39
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yesterday? lol

Tomorrow I'm going to have the move the primary O2 up to the collector where the plugged one is (but opposite side), as well as put in the rear O2 again (if they have it). If they don't have it, and moving the bung doesn't solve it, I get to go buy a rear O2 for another $60 and have them weld a bung in for that.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:59 PM   #40
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oh... i thought you were talking about something you did like a week or two ago... (back when the full exhaust went on)
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