Turbo

BlackJack · 03-23-2005, 09:17 PM

alright, anyone out there, what's the hot new setup for turbo apps on the 3400 V6, and does it require beefed internals or other method of reducing the stock compression....expecting to hit AT LEAST 7k on the tach, and possibly putting in a zex wet nitrous kit with computer controlled delivery adjusted for bottle pressure at some point.

Need to know if I'm going to have to fork out much more than for just a turbo kit.

Option B:

Purchase a snail from the junk yard and build a custom turbo setup....I have more time than money for fabing the pipes.

03-23-2005, 09:23 PM

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/99-04%20Grand%20Am.htm

you can run 6-8 psi on stock internaly with out TOO MANY problems.

this kit is also sold somewhere else for like 3k or 2.5k, also id go with alc injection, because there chip wont work for you.

Cliff8928 · 03-23-2005, 10:33 PM

7,000 RPM is the maximum recommended on the stock connecting rods.

mike2002 · 03-23-2005, 10:52 PM

if your running 7k, turbo and nitrous, i give your engine 2,000 miles....LOL

the whole drivetrain needs to be upgraded for 7k, i think it would ruin your engine, severe valve float

BlackJack · 03-23-2005, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike2002@Mar 23 2005, 09:52 PM
if your running 7k, turbo and nitrous, i give your engine 2,000 miles....LOL

the whole drivetrain needs to be upgraded for 7k, i think it would ruin your engine, severe valve float

Quoted post

alright, so dual valve springs are definitely in order,
I hear forged bottom end setups aren't cheap either...

-Alero- · 03-24-2005, 03:05 AM

the whole damn project isnt cheap period. thats why i say if you want a turbo car, you buy one.

Spilner521 · 03-24-2005, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RAVAGE214@Mar 23 2005, 09:23 PM
also id go with alc injection, because there chip wont work for you.

Quoted post

"alc" i'm guessing means alcohol injection? and i'm guessing you mean to cool down the intake charge? why not just use an intercooler...this is a turbo setup not a roots supercharger.

03-24-2005, 09:28 AM

the stock valve train and bottem end will not handle 7000 rpms.

you are going to need a LOT more than some strong springs. i.e. cam, pistons, rods, crank, etc.....

i would only take the engine to ~6300-6500 MAX with some strong springs (i.e. LS6). a pushrod engine is not ment to be a high rev'er.

you do not need to do anything else to the motor other than ensure your heads are flat and making a good seal on the block.

and you will not need any n2o

and no turbo you can pull from the junk yard is gonna be a good match for the 3400 (MAYBE a desiel turbo, but then again its a hit or miss on the turbo specs and if they would be a good match)

if you get a properly sized turbo, intercooler, PCM management like the DHP Powertuner, you can safely run 10 psi which is good for at least 300 crank HP.

the thing i would worry about before all else, is the tranny.

your tranny will die most likely before the engine.

03-24-2005, 03:38 PM

Heres some good info on Alcohol injection. It can be ussed similar to a turbo N2 system.

BlackJack · 03-24-2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by germ@Mar 24 2005, 08:28 AM
you do not need to do anything else to the motor other than ensure your heads are flat and making a good seal on the block.

if you get a properly sized turbo, intercooler, PCM management like the DHP Powertuner, you can safely run 10 psi which is good for at least 300 crank HP.

Quoted post

alright, now what kind of 1/4 times should I estimate with the above mods....assuming just a stock (not stripped down) 4dr with no aftermarket sound system, factory wheels, and a B&M shift plus as the only other specs?
If I can't resonably hit the 12's without shelling excess of 10k under the hood, I'm scrapping the whole project and buying the car I passed over before, cuz it will.

Dont laugh, I'm not experienced at GM's YET. My mechanical experience was in building 11sec VW Beetles back in the 80's. poop's more expensive nowdays, and newer race technology. And I about had to clean out the drawers when I found out that a billet crank alone was about 2 grand. What's the world coming to? Guess racing is now only for those that are independently wealthy, or sell crack.

kwhauck · 03-24-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlackJack+Mar 24 2005, 03:03 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlackJack @ Mar 24 2005, 03:03 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-germ@Mar 24 2005, 08:28 AM
you do not need to do anything else to the motor other than ensure your heads are flat and making a good seal on the block.

if you get a properly sized turbo, intercooler, PCM management like the DHP Powertuner,Â;-) you can safely run 10 psi which is good for at least 300 crank HP.

Quoted post

alright, now what kind of 1/4 times should I estimate with the above mods....assuming just a stock (not stripped down) 4dr with no aftermarket sound system, factory wheels, and a B&M shift plus as the only other specs?
If I can't resonably hit the 12's without shelling excess of 10k under the hood, I'm scrapping the whole project and buying the car I passed over before, cuz it will.

Dont laugh, I'm not experienced at GM's YET. My mechanical experience was in building 11sec VW Beetles back in the 80's. poop's more expensive nowdays, and newer race technology. And I about had to clean out the drawers when I found out that a billet crank alone was about 2 grand. What's the world coming to? Guess racing is now only for those that are independently wealthy, or sell crack.

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

you won't hit 12s with 10k guaranteed, unless you got some connections and can fab up a lot of custom poop.....even then you are pushing it, 12s are unheard of as of yet for aleros or grandams......

kwhauck · 03-24-2005, 04:20 PM

although with a good turbo setup and proper computer tuning you should be able to run high 13s, can't say how long your tranny will last though, i personally am working with mike on a custom tranny swap for both his supercharged alero and my turbo alero.......

BlackJack · 03-24-2005, 04:23 PM

so with an Alero, I'm doomed to get stomped by the above average ricers?

kwhauck · 03-24-2005, 04:30 PM

not necessarily, i would consider an above average ricer to run low 14s, high 13s, you also have to take into account that turbos are also fairly new to the alero/grandam world......deek from gagt.com is really the only turbo 1/4 times i have seen so far compared to a good number of supercharged times including mike (sc/alero) 13.8 in topeka, deek from gagt.com ran a 14.1 in Las Vegas with a custom non-intercooled, stock manifold turbo setup.........so 13s should be had fairly easily, after that is where the fun/hardwork/money will really count

BlackJack · 03-24-2005, 04:43 PM

alright, that's somewhat of a relief....I just wanna make sure I'm not throwing all this money in the toilet to find out that I can't get there from here.

Know the average local shop price for port/polish my existing heads/intakes? I am doing that next and dont wanna get ripped off....probably should also have a 7-angle valve job done while I'm at it.

03-24-2005, 09:18 PM

first of all, if a person were to have the ability to use their own hands then they can EASILY hit 12's for way less than 10k

you can get a turbo kit and run 12 psi (track only, w/ race gas) on a stock engine and get it to hit 12's. you will need to beef up the tranny in order to do it regularly.

a decent tranny "kit" would cost less than 3000 and a decent tranny would cost less than 4000 and thats PUSHING the limits of what it would cost.

me personally, i have done all the work on my car myself and saved a lot of money and learned a lot in the process.

for the engine mods and turbo setup i have spent MAYBE 1750 and a tranny to hold 12's cost around 1500 installed

but keep in mind ive done a lot of trial and error work and having a setup like this and the power it has, expect to have some downtime to work on the car and tune the car. no off the shelf PCM is going to work, your going to have to spend the loot on a Powertuner from DHP

kwhauck · 03-24-2005, 10:25 PM

f*** DHP.......

03-24-2005, 10:44 PM

the dhp tuner is a good setup.... but with the hptuners you have a butt load more tuneability plus you can change the gear ratio's and what not to aid in the everyday driver. i personly have ran 15psi on my alero with the supercharger without any problems so the motor can take it, is it recommended no i would not recommend it. it did finally blow the motor but it was do to run a nitrous dry kit which pitted the pistons and caused them to fail.

evryone on this board is going to tell you what is the best setup and what will work and what won't trust me take it all with a grain assult. some people on here think they know everything and everyone and say they can do everything. ture if you have any mechanical experiance you can save a butt load as well which is what springs and i have done. my whole setup has costed me about 4000. that for the s/c intercooler the envoy injectors (which i strongly recommend. ebay is a great place) all i have to say is be very relaxed with what a lot of people have to say on here and ask the people who really know. you should be able to tell by their posts if the know or not

kwhauck · 03-24-2005, 10:57 PM

very well put Mike.......thanx......

03-25-2005, 09:05 AM

not sure where you got the info about changing gear ratios, but thats not done in the pcm. you can change the pcm to accept different gear ratios and DHP Powertuner DOES do that. the Powertuner is on par with the HPTuners suite and will be a much better tuner software in the coming months (keep in mind the powertuner has only been out for less than a year and is still upgrading and adding tons of other things, plus the support for DHP is free, unlike HPT where you have to pay more money for any upgrades to the software)

but hey, either one is fine, because you will need one or the other to tune the car the way its supposed to be tuned.

and i will expound on what was said earlier about listening to people....

listen to people that have actually DONE it and not to people that have thoughts about it. until you actually do it and take that leap of faith you cant really "know" about a turbo or s/c setup since they are so rare on the 3400 and until you do it you cant even imagine the type of setbacks, problems, and other things you will come accross. the only people that are going to know, are the ones that have done it or are doing it.