Gauge interest

[PappaSmurf]

If I had the money, then it wouldnt be a problem. However being a college kid, being the only employed member of my family with a 9 month old and supporting two family hoseholds on my paycheck of $7/hr, isnt really an option at this point. I have found a shop that sells gauges for like 20 bucks a pop. However, I doubt that I will boost in the future after talking to my mechanic and finding out that I would end up blowing more money in the long run "charging" a daily driver. LOL
-Smurf-

[Nate's Alero]

Originally Posted by mfuller

Aeroforce scan gauge, wideband O2 and oil pressure.

nice selection, ill be using that

Originally Posted by PappaSmurf

If I had the money, then it wouldnt be a problem. However being a college kid, being the only employed member of my family with a 9 month old and supporting two family hoseholds on my paycheck of $7/hr, isnt really an option at this point.
-Smurf-

In this case, spending $0 on mods is best. Family first, education second.
Mods for your car is way down on the list.

[PappaSmurf]

Yeah but spending money on the car is what keeps me from going insane. LMAO. Ask Bdyman, he knows what I am going through. LOL
WHat about this a/f ratio gauge? It seems to ME to be what you guys are refering to as narrow band, it doesnt have a number but I take it that you dont have to be a rocket scientist to guesstimate, or am i wrong?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SWOOS...Q5fAccessories
-Smurf-

To fully understand why a high performance vehicle tuner would be better off using a wide-band O2 sensor/gauge versus a narrow band setup, we must first understand what each sensor was originally developed to do.


Narrow Band O2 Sensors began to appear on vehicles with the advent of fuel injection in the 1980’s. Their purpose was to monitor component degradation (i.e. fuel injectors, vacuum leaks) of vehicles as they accumulated miles. Their basic job was to let the computer know whether the vehicle was running at an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1 under idle (ideal ratio for gasoline engines), moderate acceleration, and cruise conditions, and if it wasn’t, to “trim” the injector pulse-width to either slightly lean or richen the engine. When the computer is paying attention to the input from the O2 sensor, the engine is operating in a “closed-loop” capacity. Under heavier acceleration or wide-open throttle the computer ignores the O2 sensor because it requires an air/fuel ratio other than 14.7:1, which is outside the design parameters of the sensor. This is known as “open-loop” operation. The sensor lets the computer know if the engine is running above or below 14.7:1 by sending voltage to the computer in a range between 0 and 1 volt, usually sweeping between the two extremes of this scale. Traditional narrow-band air/fuel ratio gauges are simply a voltmeter for this signal. This can be seen by the repeated sweeping back and forth of the gauge in most idle, light throttle, and cruise conditions. To summarize, a narrow band O2 sensor is only able to tell a computer (or gauge, for that matter) whether an engine is operating above or below a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio.


Wide Band O2 Sensors where developed in the early ‘90s as vehicle manufacturers began looking to obtain air/fuel ratio information under all circumstances. This ranged from WOT to varying ratios, for example running air/fuel ratios leaner than 14.7:1 under cruise conditions. Volkswagen and Honda pioneered the development of the wide-band O2 sensors to provide accurate air-fuel ratios under these varying circumstances. They did this by broadening the voltage range in which feedback from the sensor was provided and making a linear scale that provided a fixed voltage that correlated to a specific air/fuel ratio. While the narrow-band O2 is still the most common type of O2 sensor installed on most new vehicles (for cost reasons), OEMs will still use wide-bands on many forced induction applications (or, in Honda’s case, on their “lean-burn” Civics).


High performance vehicle tuners discovered that wide-band O2 sensors are very helpful when accurate air/fuel ratio readings are required to maximize power, reliability, and mileage on modified vehicles.

This is my wideband gauge:

[PappaSmurf]

Matt,
Okay thank you. Now it seems more clear as to why eveyone is saying run with the wideband.
-Smurf-

[Redog]

Wideband is more accurate to what is going on with your fuel curve, the narrow band is pretty much a light show.

On a FI car it's just going to bounce around, plus it's not really needed unless your running forced induction, have an adjustable FPR, or have a really worked NA motor.

Stick with trans temp, oil pressure, and volt meter. I think that's your best bet with what you have in your car

[AleroDrime]

Smurf,
I don't know if your decided or if its possible, but I personally would enjoy a DB meter in my car.

That's my far fetched idea.
I'd go with a wide band and possibly gas mileage meter(one that did real time not accumulative.

[PappaSmurf]

Ken,
Thanks I will take this information into account.

Aleroracing,
I have not yet decided, however am leaning more towards Ken's (Redog) advice. The DB (if you mean DeciBels) meter would be cool, however you could get one of the DB readers at walmart for 20 bucks. They suck and are nowhere near close to accurate as the ones used in competetions. I also think that with your setup it would be a waste of 20 bucks; not flaming your setup, just saying that you arent ready to be put in a sound competition yet. I have a custom built box that I made for the specific subs in my car and hit at a lower frequency than anyone else that just puts an already made enclosure with subs. I also have no idea what you mean about a gas mileage meter, I have never even heard of one. I think you might be mistaken this for an Air/Fuel ratio gauge.
-Smurf-

[spyhunter]

Originally Posted by PappaSmurf

If I had the money, then it wouldnt be a problem. However being a college kid, being the only employed member of my family with a 9 month old and supporting two family hoseholds on my paycheck of $7/hr, isnt really an option at this point. I have found a shop that sells gauges for like 20 bucks a pop. However, I doubt that I will boost in the future after talking to my mechanic and finding out that I would end up blowing more money in the long run "charging" a daily driver. LOL
-Smurf-

Woah $7 an hour isn't going to get you anywhere trying to go between so many different things.

Kid and family and then education. You should find a passtime besides tinkering your car with "flashy" items.

[hok666]

Shxt.... I make 7.40/hr, Im ballin more than you smurf, and I get 40hrs guaranteed... I should be making up to 9.00 in a couple of weeks.. The place Im working at is expanding fast..

[PappaSmurf]

Hok,
Yeah BIG baller on that $0.40 An hour huh? LOL Yeah I pull anywhere from 41-68 Hours a week, too bad my work week is only three days a week, I work saturday, sunday, and monday. I should be gettign a different job soon, bumping me up to 13 an hour. HOPEFULLY!
I am still doing the personal security and that is the ONLY reason I am able to afford me bills and make the trip out to ASS this year.
-Smurf-

[AleroDrime]

Smurf a lot of newer cars have a feature that reads out an accumulative average of the cars gas mileage, my pop kingranch 250 does this, but how ever that needle would be very active or enjoyable. I have a feeling it doesn't exist but a real time gas mileage reading would.

Do you mean my old sub system or the new memphis, I checked the optimium air capicty for these subs when I got the box, I'm almost dead on and the sound is impressive. I listen to rehab, kottonmouth, and potluck mosr often. I have subs for depth, not for bass competition. This is why I chose 10's. I am planning to eventually replace the poor legacy am for the memphis one ment to pair with my subs. A decibal meter in a guage pod wouldn't be that functional or accurate, but it would be a fun 3rd in my opinion.

[PappaSmurf]

Alero,
There isnt a gauge that is made to give you a gas mileage readout. Plus you would have to do so much work in order for this thing to be ANYWHERE near accurate for the alero.

Did you build the box, or buy it? If you bought it then dont believe the ratings on the box, they are just numbers that make you buy things. If I told you that there were 50,000 clouds in the sky, would you seriously count all of them??? No, but it sounds cool!
Also, there is NO SUCH THING as a decibel meter gauge that will fit into a 2 1/16th gauge pod WITHOUT MAJOR fabrication and then it still wouldn't be an accurate gauge. Why spend money on something stupid? Are you gonna put on the stick on hood scoops because they look good? GO FOR IT. I would rather have functional hood scoops, than crap. It's YOUR car and you do what you want.

I am not trying to be rude, but I am placing you on my ignore list so that I dont have another outburst of what you call "immaturity" towards your retardedness. Sorry, Aint gonna happen! GOODBYE!
-Smurf-

[heineck]

Oh no not the dreaded ingore list! LOL nice with the hoodscoop, i remember comin across that driving ur scary ass car haha

[cherrington17]

you can get(or make) certain modules that will give you realtime mpg. they just take alot of calibration. It would be even worse for an in car dB meter. those things need CONSTANT calibration to stay accurate.

i vote, volt/wideband/oil pressure. then swap out later if you decide to go for more engine mods that allow/require better sensors.

[PappaSmurf]

Cherry,
I agree. I think I am gonna go with oil pressure, transmission temperature/ and a volt meter and then just swap out once the mods come in.
-Smurf-

[spyhunter]

ya'll are some broke rooster's bummin on a $7 an hour job.

[AbHeLlRaZoR]

Originally Posted by PappaSmurf

I think I am gonna go with oil pressure, transmission temperature/ and a volt meter and then just swap out once the mods come in.

Probably your best bet to do that and you can make custom pods if you want more.... now if this thread is about who makes more I'm collecting Employment insurance and still comes out around $11.17 an hour if divided over 40 hours lol

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by mfuller

....... When the computer is paying attention to the input from the O2 sensor, the engine is operating in a “closed-loop” capacity. Under heavier acceleration or wide-open throttle the computer ignores the O2 sensor because it requires an air/fuel ratio other than 14.7:1............

The PCM still attempts to get to the "target AFR" in PE mode. Where does it get the data to do that? I wonder if the PCM stores previous WOT AFR data to compensate for deviations on subsequent runs.

Assuming the OEM O2 sensor is consistent from run to run, the voltage it puts out during WOT is still a good indicator of AFR, not as accurate, but useful nonetheless. For example, a failing or weak fuel pump system, or mismatched injectors will show up with a change in the OEM sensor's voltage. If I scanned a dyno run where an AFR of 12.0 was logged, and my narrowband read 925 straight across the graph, then I know pretty much where I need to be.


Either way, an O2 sensor tells what resulted from a tune or component change, not what to do about it.