Need Help Please

ok folks here is the situation. i blew another tranny so i am stepping up and going to the 65e. what i need help with is the mounts and postions the rest i can do. i already have a new tranny, wel used anyways, and a new subframe. i know there are grand ams that have done this swap and i am heading over there to post the same there. if anyone has or knows of pics that exsist that might be of some help please let me know pm me e-mail me i have been with out the car for a month trying to figure out what needs to be done and this is the only sulition i can come up with. i know the tranny is stronger and can handle more. i have the rebuild kit on its way and the shift kit as well. programing is not a problem.
so again if i can get any help on this it is greatly appreciated

thanks
mike

[kwhauck]

hey mike how did your tranny blow sorry man i couldn't resist.....anyways yeh, any help is greatly appreciated as my buildup will include a 65e tranny as well.....assuming we can get it to work....

you will need to switch your PCM code to include the 65 tranny and the 3400, i.e. 2000+ monte carlo and impala, so you will need to redo the entire engine and tranny wire harness since the pinouts on the PCM may/will be different.

so basically you need to turn your engine bay into a 2000 monte carlo and then splice in the engine/tranny harness to your firewall/dash harness.

ive looked at doing this myself btw

[jturkey69]

this may be a dumb question, as i have been away for awhile, but why not go with a built tranny from domestic performance?? this way its alot less work, i imagine it comes with a bit of a warranty, and theres no hassles like (will it work right), or oops, i wasnt supposed to cut that wire. i agree that the 65 is the best tranny to have for an auto, but it seems that with the aftermarket startin to show up on the 45, it would be better.

i havent talked to Tom (phantom) from the ga boards, so i dont know how well his tranny is holding up to his turbo??

i would consider reading up on gagt.com about the "service" some people are getting from Dom. Perf.

lets just say there are some "not so happy" individuals that have been waiting MONTHS for parts and/or trannies.

[kwhauck]

Originally posted by germ@Mar 4 2005, 03:16 PM
i would consider reading up on gagt.com about the "service" some people are getting from Dom. Perf.

lets just say there are some "not so happy" individuals that have been waiting MONTHS for parts and/or trannies.

my thoughts exactly......plus while the 45e aftermarket maybe be "turning the corner" the 65e aftermarket is incredible and "turned the corner" many years ago........

i have one of the gm guys in the plant trying to tell me what is needed. the pin out is the same as the 45e so that is not a problem. i have the tunner to switch the code in the pcm so thats not a problem.
why am i not gettting a built tranny, well this is much much more cheaper for me as i work at a dealeership and have the access to most things.
my main problem right now is how to properly mount up the tranny to the sub frame.

i have pmd phantom on this as well and he had said he got hte bullet proof tranny and it works wel for him so he dropped the project. he has the pics i need but doe not remember where they are.

some one has to have an idea as to mount this thing in there and what mounts to use

your mounts and subframe are going to end up being custom since there werent any N bodies with the 65 stock right (you guys are N bodies right? or was it J?) either way, it will need to be a custom setup.

and FYI, you cant just change your code on your pcm to accept the 65 tranny, you gotta change it all, just like you were doing the L67 swap.

you have to wire the car up as if it were a 2000+ monte carlo that came with the 3400 and 65 in a stock application.

you cant take your Alero engine code and the Grand Prix/Monte Carlo tranny code and put it on your Alero PCM.

You can ask Jeff at EP how well that worked out for him. and Charles even says you cant do that.

your only option, from what i have read and heard from others doing the same thing.....

you gotta rewire the car as if it came stock with the 3400 and 65 tranny (i.e. 00+ monte carlo and impala)

Originally posted by germ@Mar 7 2005, 06:36 AM

you have to wire the car up as if it were a 2000+ monte carlo that came with the 3400 and 65 in a stock application.


you gotta rewire the car as if it came stock with the 3400 and 65 tranny (i.e. 00+ monte carlo and impala)

Hmmm that's odd becuase i am sitting here looking at the pin outs of the alero and the tranny i am useing which is an aztec,(only becuase it has the upgrades that i need already) and what do you know they are EXACTLY the same. so i am not quit sure where your info is coming from. believe me i have been on the phone with gm and all the techs here at work and other than the PCM and small modification to the engine cradle this is a direct bolt in. Also believe me if it does not work i will be the first to admit i was wrong

like i said, talk to Jeff from EP and talk to charles from DHP.

he tried to use the 3400 matted to a 65 tranny and use the 3400 PCM with the 65 code and some other stuff as a Montana setup, it did not work at all.

needless to say, it went click click boom. now he is rewiring and reinstalling his setup to a 00+ monte/impala setup last i heard.


and the pin out wires may be in the exact same spot, but the function of each pin out may not be the same.


and like i said before, im not sure if the tranny will "bolt" up to your stock cradle or if you have to use the cradle from the donor car and if that will line up with your mounting points is beyound me....

im trying to help with the PCM aspect of it and relaying the info i have read, seen, heard, etc.... to help you in your quest.

and with anyone saying they are talking to GM techs and stuff, well, i kinda have to laugh. i know quite a few GM techs and i wouldnt let them change my oil let alone tell me how to do anything custom. there might be a few good ones, but overall, the lack of knowledge with GM techs kinda lets me not listen to them.


and i am not saying i am right and you are wrong, i am only saying what i know from what ive seen and having researched the 65 swap MANY times for the last year, its just easier to beef up your stock tranny than mess with a swap.

the advantages of going to a 65 over a 45 is few and the 45 can be improved to handle whatever power your looking to put at it.

if your just going to slap in a stock 65 tranny, well, i think you might want to reconsider.


lets look at it like this....

if you pop in the 65 and use the alero pcm and code and "add" the 65 tranny, your looking for a complete custom PCM OR custom tuner (that DHP doesnt have or anyone else for that matter) and will cost you a grip to get that special code onto your pcm and even then there is no guarantee that it will work. *see reasons above

now if you rewire the engine bay, as if it were a 2000 monte carlo/impala, you wont have to worry about anything, because the PCM is there, and the tuning software is there. you wont have to worry about splicing pcm codes together or anything and you wont have to worry if this will work or not. *see reasons above

or you can just have your 4t45 rebuilt like many other grand am owners that have power adders like yourself and not have to worry about wiring, swaps, tuner support, etc..... and you have a nice beefy stock tranny that will probably cause you a LOT less headaches.


unless you have lots of time and money and another car, i would suggest just getting the stock tranny fixed right.

oh, i almost forgot....


custom made drive shafts


gotta love custom stuff.

i agree with you germ on some of your cases. i do appreciate the fact you are tring to help. as for the gm techs i am speaking to are from the corp level. nit just the average joe. i have the guy to do my pcm so that is not an issue. the custom shafts too are taken care of. i have an extra cradle to be modded. i will do thins before i even think about putting in. i understand the concerns you have. but it can be done look at what springs has done. he has gone 5 speed. that has not been done before either. did it cost alot probably. is cost a factor for me yes it is. but i have means that most don't. all i was really looking for was a few pics of the ones that have been done out there just for the mounts that was about it. the info that i am recieve is also being takin into consideration.

what springs did with the 5 speed is no where near what your doing. you can "trick" the pcm into thinking a tranny is hooked up, but a 5 speed manual is not hooked up to the pcm (i.e. PRND selection) so your able to drive it without the PCM being setup for the 5spd.

but in your situation, the PCM is going to be your issue.

mounting that thing up is nothing, pretty strait forward actually, just make sure it lines up.

getting it to move afterward is what im worried about. so i hope it goes well for you, just stay away from Intense Racing for your tranny parts, if you havent noticed yet.

YEA I AGREE I WILL NOT BE USING INTENSE RACING STUFF. I WILL BE USING ALL GM STUFF AND THE SHIFT poop FROM TRANSGO. THEY HAVE GREAT SUPPORT. damn cap lock.

again my concern is the mounting . i have heard you still use the front and rear mount but the side one is where the modding comes in cut snip weld and your done. i e-mailed spoon and elrod today to see if i am just chasing a dream or not i will see if i get answers back.

agreed john's PCM is going to be different because he just has to shut code down or off. and that is not going to be a problem for him either becuase of what he is using for the computer.

once i get everything operational i will be putting the QUalife LSD in it but i figure make it operation before spending 1400 on something that is not going to work.

did you email that grand am guy that did the l67 swap? he might have some usefull info on what needs to be done to the cradle and mounting of the 65 tranny

i personally wouldnt order an LSD at all, but thats just me. from what i have seen in the grand prix world, the LSD is not needed, check with ZZP. barely any of their cars use a LSD and they recomend that you dont use one and its not needed. ive seen more LSD's cause major tranny failure than i have seen them produce 2 wheel burnouts and correct TQ steer.

ive never delt with the Quiafe due to the price. for the money that thing costs, you can have a full race tranny built that doesnt need a LSD lol.