Just curious (turbo question)

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by sorrowfulkiller

Well for one I'm much more comfortable with changing things via a computer, been working with them most of my life, so something like editing a PCM should come fairly easy to me.... whereas adding injectors is gray area to me... I have no clue how I would manage flow or exactly how they work... but right now I'm completely open to any ideas and I'd really like to hear your setup works and how it runs.

If you could explain to me how it works that would be awesome. Like for instance what would be needed, where one would put the 7th injector, how to control the flow from it, ect...

I've heard of such things on older buick regals like the 1988 with the turbo, where the 7th injector also cooled the setup because it introduced the gas which acted to cool the air coming into the engine while also adding gas when the turbo was runing, is that pretty much the same concept that you have going on your car?

You're on the right track, but instead of 1 extra injector to feed all the cylinders, I have 1 injector per cylinder mounted in the runners of the intake manifold right behind the stock injector.

I have the injector bosses welded into each intake runner to hold the injectors. I put a T fitting in the fuel feed line and the extra fuel line feeds a block which has 4 seperate fuel lines coming out of it to feed the extra injectors.

The injectors are controlled by the SDS Extra Injector Controller...here's the website: http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html. Besides the EIC, the engine runs on stock injectors, stock pcm and stock tune. When just crusing and not in boost, you'd never be able to tell the car was modded, it idles and drives exaclty like stock. When you push the gas harder and the turbo spools, that's when the extra injectors kick in and add the extra fuel. That's it. It's that easy.

The only tuning you have to do is turn 2 knobs on the controller: The vacuum/boost level the injectors come in and how much fuel they inject. So you set it to 0 vacuum/boost and then just drive around watching the wideband and figure out where the other knob needs to be until you get your target A/F ratio.

I have mine set just before 0 (-2 vacuum) so that it starts the injectors a little before I get into boost. I did this because I was getting some hot EGT's (most likely very light knock/detonation) right as the engine transitioned from vacuum to boost, and starting the fuel early took care of it.

If you went with this setup, you could do the same thing I did (1 injector per cylinder) or you could add 2 larger injectors in the charge pipe spraying into the throttle body. Both setups will work the same way. I don't believe SDS makes the EIC with 6 injector plugs for a 6 cylinder, but it pulses all the injectors at the same time, so you'd just have to get 2 extra plugs and some wires and splice them into the existing wires on the EIC.

And last but not least, a couple pictures: My engine and the EIC. The green light on the EIC turns on when the injectors turn on at your desired setting. The other lights show the injector duty cycle. For those who don't know what that means, it shows (by percentage) how hard the injector is working. Basically, the more the injector can flow, the less is has to pulse to get the desired amount of fuel. You try to stay away from 100% duty cycle because that's when the injectors are maxxed out.

[MixtapeMessiah]

God I love that set up dude, still got any parts left over from ur 2.4?

[BlackJack]

Originally Posted by sorrowfulkiller

Does dhp power tuner allow for realtime scanning for kr then?

yes, it does. However, I recommend if you want to do some serious tuning, you should get a wideband O2 as an additional accessory. Factory O2 gives A/F readings at a rate comparable to a dialup modem connection versus cable internet, just to paint a picture. Your KR will be real time, but you can tune better by using wideband O2 to make your fueling adjustments

[sorrowfulkiller]

I really like how that works, I'm thinking that if I would go with that way though I would definetely put it before the TB because if I would get the splicing screwed up who knows what would happen. So where did you mount that box in your car? Also, you think having two injectors by the TB would matter too much like do you think it would cause problems?

I'll probably decide which way I'll go later on though. because I'm not sure which I'll be more comfortable with, now that I understand how the extra injectors work.




and BlackJack, I'll definetely get a wideband sensor either way I go because I've heard the wideband can't handle the psi above about 2.





So I'm thinking that I'll get a 3 gauge A pillar too, with an A/F guage, a Boost Guage and a tranny temp guage. I'll probably get my 45e rebuilt with aftermarket parts once I'm ready to go up to 10-12 psi, but in the meantime I'll have to use the tranny temp guage to find out if anything's wrong.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Oh, and BlackJack, does the powertuner support editing the limp home mode? Because if I do any travelling with the car (cross country) I'd like to have it go into a custom limp home setting if I would experience knocks at a lower altitude. Would it be better to run the normal limp home mode in this case?

[BlackJack]

Originally Posted by sorrowfulkiller

and BlackJack, I'll definetely get a wideband sensor either way I go because I've heard the wideband can't handle the psi above about 2.

ER???

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by MixtapeMessiah

God I love that set up dude, still got any parts left over from ur 2.4?

All the parts from my 2.4 are still on my 2.4 which is currently still powering my car. Give me a little while. I'm shooting for early summer for the fully built Eco to be swapped and running.

But I do have the secret cams for sale for anyone with the 2.4...

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by sorrowfulkiller

I really like how that works, I'm thinking that if I would go with that way though I would definetely put it before the TB because if I would get the splicing screwed up who knows what would happen. So where did you mount that box in your car? Also, you think having two injectors by the TB would matter too much like do you think it would cause problems?

I'll probably decide which way I'll go later on though. because I'm not sure which I'll be more comfortable with, now that I understand how the extra injectors work.

Before the throttle body is much easier to set up and will work well, but mounting the injectors in the runners will work better because it'll mix the fuel much better. It's up to you which way you prefer. I could show you how to splice the wires if you choose 6 injectors (which I think is the better option). It's really not at all difficult.

Originally Posted by sorrowfulkiller

and BlackJack, I'll definetely get a wideband sensor either way I go because I've heard the wideband can't handle the psi above about 2.

And what does this mean?????

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by sorrowfulkiller

So I'm thinking that I'll get a 3 gauge A pillar too, with an A/F guage, a Boost Guage and a tranny temp guage. I'll probably get my 45e rebuilt with aftermarket parts once I'm ready to go up to 10-12 psi, but in the meantime I'll have to use the tranny temp guage to find out if anything's wrong.

I have AEM wideband A/F gauge, boost and EGT(exhaust gas temperature) on my A pillar. Here's a picture just to give you an idea:

[MixtapeMessiah]

how much for the cams?

Just let me know when u do swap out the 2.4, Im interesting in a lot of parts you got

[Spilner521]

Originally Posted by MixtapeMessiah

how much for the cams?

Just let me know when u do swap out the 2.4, Im interesting in a lot of parts you got

http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16516 < Go here for the cams. I'll definitely let you know about the parts when they come off.

[sorrowfulkiller]

oops I meant I've heard the stock sensor can't handle over 2 psi Sorry my mistake

[sorrowfulkiller]

Wow, I'd love to get my interior peices carbon fiber... SEXAY!

[spyhunter]

I HAVE THE SAME WIDEBAND!!!!

Originally Posted by Spilner521

I have AEM wideband A/F gauge, boost and EGT(exhaust gas temperature) on my A pillar. Here's a picture just to give you an idea:

[BlackJack]

oh man....the hottest thing is definitely the "racing bucket seat" cell phone holder......I like it, no shit.

[BlackJack]

Originally Posted by sorrowfulkiller

and BlackJack, I'll definetely get a wideband sensor either way I go because I've heard the wideband can't handle the psi above about 2.

Originally Posted by sorrowfulkiller

oops I meant I've heard the stock sensor can't handle over 2 psi Sorry my mistake

um....I have not been able to make sense of what you're trying to say yet. An A/F setup, either stock or wideband has absolutely nothing to do with psi.

if we're going to talk about psi and how it relates to A/F setups .....(weird)........ then if it makes you feel any better, I'm running 12psi daily, and 15psi for limited events using factory O2 sensor, and only my PowrTuner for determining readings in mV.

and....If you go wideband, it's not just a sensor, you have to buy a wideband "setup" which includes the sensor, the electronics that process the signal, and a readout, which depending on the co. could be a boxy looking display, or a guage like spilner and spy's. Either way, make sure you have external outputs on the processor in case you want to integrate it with another system (like the PowrTuner for example)

spilner and spy, can ya link me to where you bought your AEM's at? I wanna compare them to some of the systems I've been looking at.

[Cliff8928]

So, just wondering on the wideband, do you replace your stock sensor with it (and use the narrow band output from the wideband controller) or do you just use it in addition to the stock sensor?

[BlackJack]

from what I've seen most people do, you use the wideband sensor, and it goes piggy-back style to both your narrow band in your PCM, and the wideband in your new setup. This way the PCM gets the readings it needs, and you use the wideband hardware to make adjustments.

So, in effect, both your stock computer and the wideband stand-alone will be using the same sensor. This is just what I have been told by others that are using one.

[alerored04]

Spilner that is a very nice setup. Looks great, simple to use, and from what i can see you did real quality work on the install.

[Cliff8928]

Originally Posted by BlackJack

from what I've seen most people do, you use the wideband sensor, and it goes piggy-back style to both your narrow band in your PCM, and the wideband in your new setup. This way the PCM gets the readings it needs, and you use the wideband hardware to make adjustments.

So, in effect, both your stock computer and the wideband stand-alone will be using the same sensor. This is just what I have been told by others that are using one.

Ok, but the PCM needs the simulated HO2S signal from the UEGO controller to work right with it, correct? Does the UEGO heater element wires just connect to the stock HO2S wires (since the PCM monitors the heater circuit)?