Jl Xr650csi

mikegett · 08-22-2005, 12:29 AM

I have had the pleasure of testing my JL XR650CSi Components for a week now. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_compone...php?comp_id=120
I was highly impressed with the clarity of the aluminum dome tweeter at the audio shop. In fact, I have always been partial to silk dome tweets for the smooth accuracy that they have over the metal tweeters. Had it not been for the JL tweeters, I would probably have been swayed toward a cheaper priced woofer. All I can say, is thank goodness I didn't . While the XR is not the top of the line JL speaker, it does a great job in persuading you that it is. With smooth highs, a quick and accurate midrange, and some serious mid bass that rivals my former eclipse at all power ranges these speakers were built to please. Enough with my opinions, on to the specs.
The JL XR650CSi is a 6.5inch component coupled with a 1 inch aluminum dome tweeter. The crossover is 2-way network with 1st order low-pass and 2nd order high-pass circuit. Premium polypropylene film capacitors and air-core inductors. 5-position adjustable tweeter output level with a 3-position midrange presence control and fully capable for bi-amping. The speaker sensitivity is 89.5 with a continuous 70 watts RMS. The frequency response is 48 Hz - 25 KHz ± 3 dB. In most cases I would believe this to be very unlikely for a 6.5 inch midrange woofer. However, I played a alternating 3 second tone at 50 Hz from a test cd for about 30 seconds. (please make note, that if you subject a low frequency test tone to any speaker for longer than a couple of seconds you risk burning up the speaker and your amp). Astonishingly, the woofer produced the tone flawlessly. My eclipse comps would bottom out around 65-70Hz and I have personaly tested many that could not perform below 90. The main concern I have with the XR woofers is a lack of a aluminum basket. Instead, the woofer is secured to a stamped metal basket. I find this unexceptable for a 400 dollar component to be made without the more solid aluminum frame. My other issue lies in the warranty. JL warranty covers the speaker for 90 days unless installed by a professional or authorized by a professional. I am sorry, but a 90 day standard warranty is VERY poor in my book.
My current system consists of a eclipse 8454 HU with 8volt preouts. One eclipse 10 inch dual voice coil woofer powered by a Eclipse PA5422 four channel amplifier bridged for 480 watts RMS. One pair of Eclipse 3-way point source 6x9's and one pair of JL XR650CSi 6.5inch components powered by another Eclipse PA5422 85 watts RMS four channel amplifier. The JL comps easily accept the full 85 watts RMS with no distortion. David Bowie's (Law) was played flawlessly at 85 percent volume ( just prior to my HU clipping). This track is a perfect blend of deep bass, and David Bowie highs. To get a better feeling of the midrange I switched to David Bowie's (Criminal World). This track once again is filled with bowie vocals but includes the great Stevie Ray Vaughan on guitar. Once again, the JL's easily reproduced all notes at a full 85 watts continuous. After sampling Keene, more Bowie (or at least Ziggy Stardust), Gorillaz, Stones, Pink Floyd, and a dash of Mozart I came to the conclusion that these speakers were exactly what JL claimed.
"As with the flagship ZR's, the XR woofer and midrange drivers feature cones and suspensions from the world’s finest loudspeaker parts manufacturer: Dr. Kurt Müller & Co. These component parts, although expensive to use, give the XR’s the kind of spectral purity normally associated with only the finest home loudspeakers."
If you are looking for a great addition to your cars sound stage, I highly suggest you concider the XR or possibly even the ZR series from JL. You will not be dissapointed.

mikegett · 08-22-2005, 12:44 AM

I felt I should add this seperate from the previous post. I fully support the local audio shops. They may not be able to compete with internet sales, but they offer the buyer a close and personal experience that they cannot get over a computer. Every individuals taste on music is different and makes it impossible to know what he or she would like without trying out the product. Places like Best Buy offer a small range of products but lack the diversity that you can get in a audio shop. However, be aware that not all shops are equal. I am unfortunate enough to live 68 miles from the nearest audio shop. This makes it very difficult to choose who I may deal with. Ovation in Indianapolis was my choice. It is right off of a major Interstate and located one mile from the mall. The franchise states that the sales man are knowledgable and skilled in audio. I beg to differ. I found my salesman to be quite uninformed and either ignorant to mobile audio or dishonest. Please, do your homework on the products prior to visiting the store. Or, demo the products and hold off on the decission until you can varify. I have been working with car electronics and audio for 8 years, so the salesman was only there to make my purchase. In many cases, he should be a friend helping you make a very important decission. If you feel uncomfortable at any time or question some of the motives just remember that you don't have to make the purchase. In the end, it is your call.

King Asoka · 08-22-2005, 01:19 AM

great review!

I was wondering, have you listen to any rap or r&b on them yet? How are they at reproducing that type of music?

08-22-2005, 01:44 PM

Oh Man i just going to ask you for good pair of mids.i have enought bass i just got to get the mids and highs. everyone
always concern with bass. i want have a system that gets all range of sounds.i was lisening to a cd in my car then turn around and hear it in tha house u hear alot more notes and instruments at the house then in the car...thanks for the review hope to get more..

mikegett · 08-22-2005, 06:51 PM

Have you ever listened to Anthony Hamilton? If not, go to I-toons and search for "Comin From Where I'm From". This is one of my favorite R&B artists at the moment. If you are familiar with Anthony Hamilton, then you know of his distinctive rusty vocals. This single has a nice blend of Anthony's vocals with a nice mellow keyboard and horns. I switched to sirius and listened to a little rap, but it is not realy my taste. I realy couldn't imagine these dissapointing you. They impressed me on the blend between lows and midrange. So far, they have rocked everything I have thrown at them. It may just be the fact that I had used the same components for 8 years, but the quality of the sound is just amazing. I have been concidering unhooking my 6x9's and bridging the four channel to the JL's. I have no doubt that they would easily handle over the 85 watts RMS I have. With the windows up, I am listening to it with around 16 volts or rouqhly 60 watts. However, if I bridge the amp it will be able to produce 240 watts RMS. I would be maxing the speakers before my sub even started to reach a good volume. Does anyone know if you can run a set of components in parallel with a normal speaker? I believe that in order to avoid changing the crossover slopes, components should be ran in parallel after the crossover. If so, I have no clue as to how it would be done.

King Asoka · 08-22-2005, 07:23 PM

you got me. Im kinda a noob when it comes to the tech side of things. I just know what I like to hear.

Im running Hertz Audio Space 6s up front, powered by an Audison SRx 4. They can handle 100rms and they are probably getting about 60rms right now. and I must say they are incredible. The highs are distinct and crisp,but not overpowering. I havent herd mids and lows like this before from a 6.5". These amaze me every time I listen to them. I listen mostly to bands like The Trgically Hip, Dave Mathews, and a variety of Rap and r&b.

Mike, if you have a minute, could you visit www.hertzaudiovideo.com and check out the specs on my space 6s. Id love an opinion on them from someone who knows their stuff. I know you cant listen to them but you can check the specs.

Thanx

mikegett · 08-22-2005, 11:26 PM

Dude, you had to go and make me drool. I haven't even looked at the amp yet. My hands were a bit sticky from the 6S comps. I just want to know why the US doesn't get companies like that Hertz, Focal, and Legacy. The magnets used on the space series are extremely expensive. Boston Accoustics is the only one I have seen in a store that uses it. Eclipse made a three way component set that had a midrange similar to those tweeters. They sold for over a grand a set and sounded very sweet. I get mixed up with the specs of speakers alot, but it looks like they should be pretty versatile in small or large enclosures. Did you have to modify a enclosure behind them or simply drop it in place? The crossovers are pretty nice as well. Besides the quality components used to make them they incorporate time alignment via jumpers. Very cool. After having a HU with time alignment, I couldn't go back. If you ever go to a alero meet, drop me a line in advance. I would love to hear those in person.

King Asoka · 08-23-2005, 12:21 PM

Yeah, I too am pretty impressed.

All we did was create a MDF mounting ring and drop them in. I was going to get the Hi-Energy series but the magnet interfered with the window.

The set cost me an arm and a leg, but Im very pleased with their preformance. They are not in any enclosure as of yet, but that may change once I have some time to see what I can do with those door panels. There was someone on here who did some mods to his doors that included an enclosure for his 6.5. Took off the pocket and built it out. I may do the same.

Ill be sure to let you know if im going to be in your neck of the woods so you can give them a listen. right now they are the only spaekers in the car. In the next week ill be adding in my soundstream SPL50's and a JL 10w6v2 powered by a JL 500/1.

this time around Im going for SQ. Last time I was after SPL.

If you take a look at the amp let me know what you think.

thanx for the opinions.

mikegett · 08-23-2005, 08:18 PM

I'm the guy that replaced the map with a enlosure for the 6.5 comps. Both, my old eclipse and my current JL's were too deep to drop into the door. If your speakers fit and sound good then don't worry about a seperate enclosure. Many components require specific air volumes to get a good range of efficiency from low to high frequencies. I was never able to get my eclipse to sound very good. After plugging there values into some software calculators it recomended about 1.2 cubic feet to equalize the mid and low range. How the heck do you get that much air volume in a door? This was one thing that impressed me about the JL. It droped right into the door and sounds great. My paremetric eq and time delays are all flat on the HU. This and a good crossover is what seperates a decent speaker from a great speaker.
The amp is pretty good. Like the components, it has a very nice crossover and a huge amount of flexibility. The think I liked the most is the gain setup. The indicator light for gains is one nice feature that all amps should utilize. I also like the fact that they list 12volt wattage versus 13.8. This is something that all companies should list. I do have reservations on the RMS. Given the maximum amperage rating, it probably displaces closer to 55 watts RMS. The signal to noise ratio is decent but could be a little better. The only real thing I didn't like was the damping factor. At 90, the amp would be a poor choice for a subwoofer. It should be nice for your speakers, but just be sure to have a solid foundation that they are attached to. Otherwise you might get resonance at higher wattage. If you are only running the comps, try bridging the amp. It would add more power and help to keep your amp from reaching clipping at higher volumes. When you get your JL sub and amp, you should have a very nice system.

on the sound quality.

King Asoka · 08-23-2005, 09:24 PM

Cheers!

What do u mean by solid foundation? How they are mounted? If so, I geuss I shoudl build an amp rack then, right now they are attached to the back seat. The amp will be powering 2 5 1/4 for the rear fill. They are 2om nominal speakers. If i bridge the amp down to 2 ohm will i loose alot of sq?

mikegett · 08-24-2005, 12:27 AM

Sorry. The solid foundation refers to the speakers. Every speaker will have a resonant factor. Just as the cone produces sound waves outside of the enclosure, there are equal waves inside of the enclosure. If the enclosure is not solid enough, it will cause a resonation. The higher the wattage, the more solid the enclosure must be to defeat the resonating. Amplifiers have a damping factor that rates how well they can control the cone of the woofer or speaker. The higher the damping factor of the amp, the better it can defeat the resonating factor of the speaker. In most cases, a damping factor of 200 is pretty good for subs and speakers.
You won't loose any sound quality by bridging that amp. Even at a bridged state, the amps THD is lower than mosts unbridged. However, if you are running speakers in the rear you won't be able to bridge it for the front.

King Asoka · 08-24-2005, 01:53 PM

oh, all I want to do is to run it in 4ch @ 2ohms. not bridge it. so i can give more power to the fronts and provide a 2ohm load to the rears because they are 2ohm nominal speakers.

mikegett · 08-24-2005, 06:58 PM

If the rear speakers are 2 ohm, then you won't have to do anything to them other than wire it normaly. I believe the manual said your front comps were four ohm. If that is the case, you will have to keep the amp front in four ohms. I wouldn't worry about it much, the amp is placing a very clean signal and should sound good. It is just a shame that you don't have more wattage to give them. Just to see what they could do. If, in the future, you were concidering more wattage just bridge your amp on the front and see if you think it would be worth upgrading. I am kind of stuck with mine. At my normal listening level they are getting about 60 watts. My amp or HU starts to clip just below 100 watts. I would like to get more wattage to give myself some room while driving with the windows down. Unfortunately, if I bridge my amp it will be displacing up to 240 watts RMS. At that ratio the fronts will be outplaying my sub unless I raise the gains on the non fader output. Right now, everything is balanced very well so i will probably just deal with it.
Let me know when you get your JL amp and sub in. I think you will be pretty pleased.

King Asoka · 08-24-2005, 08:26 PM

will do.

King Asoka · 09-02-2005, 08:30 PM

well I decided to get a little more power for my fronts and rears. I am now running a PG Xenon X100.4

rated a 100 x 4 1-4ohm

birth sheet said 509watts at 14.4volts @ 1%THD

Freq response =- 1db from 20hz to 20khz
signal/noise >100db
high/low pass crossover 24db per octave
crossover range 40hz - 400hz
bass boost +18db @45Hz
input sens. 200millivolts to 8 volts
lowest reconmended load 2ohm bridged or 1 stereo

the manual shows what each click of the high and low pass filters is.

what do you think mike?

It was kind of an impulse buy, but I have read quite a bit about the amps and from what I understand they are just as good as what I had before, only now I have a few more watts to play with. right now the amp is probably not runnig at its full potential, I need to upgrade the power wire and do the BIG 3 on the Alero.

mikegett · 09-02-2005, 10:22 PM

I think it was a good choice. Pure SQ amps are nice, but you have to break the bank for any wattage. The P.G. amps are pretty impressive. They have always been good on power and have even cleaned up the signal over the past couple of years. I have never been a fan of bass boost on HU's due to clipping at premature levels. The amp boost is a much better route. Your probably just at the point of the big three. It deepends more on the age of you alt and wires. I am running very close to the same wattage as your current setup and my volt meter is showing the amps right on target. I am going to upgrade from one of my four channels to a mono amp next year. At that point, I am sure I will be doing the big three. At the least, I will replace my alt and battery wire.
What HU do you? Do you still have your original amp? If so, have you concidered bi-amping your comps. I have been itching to bi-amp my JL's, but I just don't know if it will be worth the time. I have a 70 x2 amp that should mate up with the tweets pretty well. Saturday I plan on building a new sub box and amp rack. The new box will be 35 percent larger and fully dampened and supported opposed to my current cheap setup. Keep me informed on your setup. Did I mention that I realy like those comps. I would bet that they sound even better with 100 watts on them.

King Asoka · 09-03-2005, 12:25 PM

Yeah, Im running an Eclipse 5435. And I traded my audison for the PG plus a little cash so I wont be biamping them. I too am building my sub box this weekend. My uncle and I are going to do it on sunday morning. So by monday night I will have a good review of the JL sub and amp. I figure I willl start with upgrading the power wire to the amps to 4 ga. then maybe when I have some time ill do the big Three. It all depends on how much dimming Im experienceing.

I need to invest in a volt metre. I plan on getting a reasonably priced one from my local Canadian Tire store. What should I look for in a volt metre?

And yes the comps do sound better with the 100watts. They are making the door panels rattle way more now, so I have to do some dampening in the near future.

mikegett · 09-03-2005, 05:13 PM

I need to dampen my car as well. You would be suprised as to how much cleaner the sound is after putting down a deadener. Just be sure to swab the door with alcohol prior to installation. If there is any dirt, the deadener won't stay on. I had to do my ford twice because it fell off in the winter. If you are strapped for cash, then just buy a small square to place directly behind the speaker. It will pretty much eliminate the vibration.
If you want a cool free software for board layouts, send me your email address. I have a old version of cutlist plus that is 3.8 megs. It is about six years old, so they no longer offer a download. Otherwise you might try the trial download of cultist plus at 9megs. They are very simple to use. Just plug in your board sizes and how large your cutting material is. It lays it out on grid for you. In about one minute I had mine layed out on a 48x48 sheet with 8 percent waste. Very nice.

King Asoka · 09-03-2005, 07:13 PM

wow, thats a cool program. I bought 1 24x24 and 1 24x48 sheet. I think we can make it all out of the 24x48. My email is kingasoka669@gmail.com.

I just got back form my car audio shop. Picked up 25 ft of 0/1, 15ft of 4ga, a distro, huge ass fuse(cant remember the amperage), +_ bat terminal, 12 ga. its gonna be a full day of building and installing tomorrow. Im redoing all power and ground for the 2 amps.

Here are some pics of whats going in. This is in addition to whats in the car. The Xenon box is empty, the amps in the car already.

These are the rears, SPL50 2ohm nominal.

Heres the sub....
top

side

The sub amp

Ill be sure to let you know how it all sounds on Monday afternoon, after I have had some tim e to tune it.

:highfive: :woohoo:

mikegett · 09-04-2005, 12:37 AM

I look forward to hearing about it. I think you will like the JL6. It is a very nice and clean subwoofer that puts out a pretty good punch. Just remember to brace the box. It makes all the difference in a SQ system. I normaly go the route of placing a full sheet of mdf in the center of the box with a hole cut two inches larger than the magnet.
I will be upgrading to a class d for my sub next year. With my last purchase it was cheaper for me to get a four channel through work. I haven't made up my mind on going with a JL500/1 or a eclipse DA7122. I just love the JL amps.