GM, Big 3, and Foreign

[Daytona]

Originally Posted by antichrysler

I suppose my biggest complaint right now about GM, or any domestic manufacturer for that matter is that it feels like they stopped innovating back in the 70's. All 3 have kinda had this attitude of "we're big.... we're huge... and no one can overthrow us" and it explains alot of the huge safety recalls (Pinto, 80's GM Trucks, GM's ignitions catching fire, Dodge/Fords seats flying out the back of their vans, etc). The big 3 don't really have any room to expand or grow, so instead they've been expanding their profit margins by putting in cheaper parts. This steady decline in quality over the years is what has let automakers like Toyota surpass GM for largest automobile manufacturer.

When you add it up the foreign market (Japanese and German are the two big ones) you see new designs coming out, you see new technology, and you see innovation. Even putting reliability and repairs aside, the innovation in domestic vehicles just isn't there. All they're really doing is re-inventing the 60's and 70's and playing on peoples ideas of "when I was young I had a Camaro" or "My dad had a Mustang" or "I used to help my dad fix up his Charger". I mean even on Aleromod, how many people on here actually bought their Alero brand new. That's just my 2c.

I agree 100% with everything you said here.

And I did custom order my Alero direct from the factory, thank you very much.

[misslindseysue]

I also bought mine brand new - but I picked it off the lot.

[antichrysler]

The EV1 was a great invention. Yeah it was for a CA regulation but GM didn't want it to succeed because of it's low maintenance. All of the money GM makes in their vehicles is after the sale and the EV1 just wasn't profitable. But if it was mass produced, battery technology was improved, and GM actually let people BUY the car after the lease it would have been a hit. Especially in large urban centers where people only commute to work and back.

[TheEdgeofSanity]

Originally Posted by antichrysler

The EV1 was a great invention. Yeah it was for a CA regulation but GM didn't want it to succeed because of it's low maintenance. All of the money GM makes in their vehicles is after the sale and the EV1 just wasn't profitable. But if it was mass produced, battery technology was improved, and GM actually let people BUY the car after the lease it would have been a hit. Especially in large urban centers where people only commute to work and back.

the only problem with these alternative fuel vehicles is that they're almost as bad for the enviroment as petroleum-running engines. like somebody said, the ethanol gives off a ton of greenhouse gasses and will cause food-cost to jump because we eat corn and yeah. battery vehicles are bad too. i'll try to find this article that talks about a lithium battery plant in canada that produces batteries for the Prius and how there's a 10 mile deadzone around the plant because of the acid rain from the battery by-products. the only thing that doesn't have bad enviromental problems is the hydrogen engine---but they explode so thats not good too.

[TheEdgeofSanity]

Originally Posted by Mach1

This is the first thread that i've wanted to post on in a while.
Did you guys see that most of GM's newer models (Vue, Aura, Enclave, etc) are getting good reviews from almost everybody. Even Consumer Reports (-GASP-). Get this, they said that the v6 in the Acadia was smooth. I like to read what CR says about GM cars, and one of the most frequent complaints they have is how the engines are "coarse and unrefined" (excluding the northstar V8 and a few other engines). Not to mention they said that the (Acadia's) ride was also smooth and (i think) compliant (or some other good word like refined or something). Also one of the latest car and driver mags did a test drive in the new Vue and basically said the ride was great and the steering BMW-like. Then they talked about how the interior was the class leader or something. The only complaints they had were that they thought it was too heavy (I think like 4100 lbs give or take) and that it could get pricey, with top of the line models reaching into the $30,000+ range. But that's just bitching. Basically, it's a great car, and yeah yeah I know that it's just a rebadge Opel and so is the Aura, but they're good cars none the less.
And don't think that im glorifying the fact Gm makes cars that at least compete with the competition now, but it's a big step in the right direction. Yeah i'd love for everybody to say "this lexus is ok but I think that the Cadillac is the better car overall" or "I like this Camry but Consumer reports says that the Malibu is a better car", but right now i'm just happy that I'm not reading some car and driver comparison with the GM entry in last or next to last place.

yeah, i saw that in the news...its nice to finally become competitive again. if only more vehicles could get these reviews....

[antichrysler]

Originally Posted by TheEdgeofSanity

the only problem with these alternative fuel vehicles is that they're almost as bad for the enviroment as petroleum-running engines. like somebody said, the ethanol gives off a ton of greenhouse gasses and will cause food-cost to jump because we eat corn and yeah. battery vehicles are bad too. i'll try to find this article that talks about a lithium battery plant in canada that produces batteries for the Prius and how there's a 10 mile deadzone around the plant because of the acid rain from the battery by-products. the only thing that doesn't have bad enviromental problems is the hydrogen engine---but they explode so thats not good too.

Well yeah, it's a trade off. To make something you have to take it from somewhere else. So in the end the batteries may not be good for the environment, but add up the less amount of pollutants in the air. Which one is worse, depends on your opinion. I will say that battery technology needs alot of refinement before it is 100% environmentally friendly.

[leroBob]

Corn costs go up?? u serious?? Do you have any clue how much the government susidizes it. The Gov. By's shit tons of of corn from farmers because they grow too much but if they grow less they cant make enough money so the government sets up contracts to buy a certain amount of the surplus. then the gov has silos os Corn that they are just holding (cant burn it then peole cry we are waisitng it, can't sell it on the market other countries would bitch that we are flooding the global market) so we end up paying tax dollars to store all types of over produced crops.

[antichrysler]

Originally Posted by leroBob

Corn costs go up?? u serious?? Do you have any clue how much the government susidizes it. The Gov. By's shit tons of of corn from farmers because they grow too much but if they grow less they cant make enough money so the government sets up contracts to buy a certain amount of the surplus. then the gov has silos os Corn that they are just holding (cant burn it then peole cry we are waisitng it, can't sell it on the market other countries would bitch that we are flooding the global market) so we end up paying tax dollars to store all types of over produced crops.

Reminds me of our softwood lumber.

[TheEdgeofSanity]

Originally Posted by leroBob

Corn costs go up?? u serious?? Do you have any clue how much the government susidizes it. The Gov. By's shit tons of of corn from farmers because they grow too much but if they grow less they cant make enough money so the government sets up contracts to buy a certain amount of the surplus. then the gov has silos os Corn that they are just holding (cant burn it then peole cry we are waisitng it, can't sell it on the market other countries would bitch that we are flooding the global market) so we end up paying tax dollars to store all types of over produced crops.

yeah, but after the country convinces people to switch to ethanol, those surpluses get used up pretty fast and eventually 20 years down the road, we're facing a food shortage because corn is used to feed livestock and as a base ingredient in many processed foods. demand up = cost up

[zoL]

Biodiesel is the only thing that makes sense for an "alternative" fuel.

[SIUlero]

Originally Posted by TheEdgeofSanity

yeah, but after the country convinces people to switch to ethanol, those surpluses get used up pretty fast and eventually 20 years down the road, we're facing a food shortage because corn is used to feed livestock and as a base ingredient in many processed foods. demand up = cost up

The government also pays farmers to not use some of their land, in order to keep surplus down and demand higher. It's all controlled. All that has to be done to meet increased demand is for the land to be farmed again. Demand up + supply up = same cost

Also, when corn grows, it absorbs CO2, the greenhouse gas everybody's afraid of with ethanol. You burn it in your engine, it's re-absorbed by vegetation...it's a cycle that prevents extra CO2 from entering the atmosphere. When you burn gasoline however, you'er reintroducing greenhouse gasses that have been locked away from the air for millions of years. Which sounds more harsh on the environment now?

[Cliff8928]

Well, I run E85 right now in my Beretta (3400). It's cheaper, but not enough to offset the fuel economy difference. But, the exhaust doesn't smell like with gasoline, it almost has no smell at all. And if at least some of that money is going back to the US farmers rather than the oil tycoons etc. that's better too...

[TheEdgeofSanity]

Originally Posted by Cliff8928

Well, I run E85 right now in my Beretta (3400). It's cheaper, but not enough to offset the fuel economy difference. But, the exhaust doesn't smell like with gasoline, it almost has no smell at all. And if at least some of that money is going back to the US farmers rather than the oil tycoons etc. that's better too...

is that ok to be running in a 3400? i heard it eats up the plastic components of the engine.

[Cliff8928]

Well, the engine has to be tuned for it for starters, it takes something like 40% more fuel? Most every engine since 1988 can work just fine with ethanol. I believe Methanol is the one that hurts the plastic parts.

[leroBob]

Plus their are studies i have read that say it takes almost a Gallon of fossil fuel to creat one Gallon of ethanol gas.

[SIUlero]

Originally Posted by leroBob

Plus their are studies i have read that say it takes almost a Gallon of fossil fuel to creat one Gallon of ethanol gas.

Those aren't studies so much as speculation. They assume that farm equipment takes loads of fuel to run, and ignore the fact that farmers use bio-diesel and ethanol where possible. Which only makes sense, since it is created from their products...money back in their pockets.

[TheEdgeofSanity]

Originally Posted by Cliff8928

Well, the engine has to be tuned for it for starters, it takes something like 40% more fuel? Most every engine since 1988 can work just fine with ethanol. I believe Methanol is the one that hurts the plastic parts.

so does that mean you can only run ethanol in ur beretta now? we don't have any ethanol stations in my area anyway.

[Cliff8928]

If i run gas it just runs REALLY rich. I could get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and lower the pressure for gas too...