Headers

[FormulaNERD]

thanks niach.

now lets compare dollar to horsepower. well it doesnt really matter how much hp the s&s will add (it's obviously comparable)... still a better buy.

[Wildman]

Welp, ordered my S&S headres today. probably be a couple weeks till I get them, but i will make sure and do a complete write up on them so that everyone can have all the facts and info to make their own educated decisions when they want to buy headers :thumbsup:

I'm ordering mine 2morrow.....I will do the same!

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by FormulaNERD@Oct 18 2004, 05:11 PM
thanks niach.

now lets compare dollar to horsepower. well it doesnt really matter how much hp the s&s will add (it's obviously comparable)... still a better buy.

you cant say somthing is a better buy when you have NO idea how much or how little power S&S headers will make.
if its half the power obviously they are a waste.
and you can't compare dollar to hp when you dont know how many hp S&S headers make

lets compare the facts for a sec.

S&S headers are offered with a lifetime warranty when coated
TOG headers have a lifetime waranty period
S&S headers are 3/8" flanges and 16 gauge steel primaries
TOG headers are 1/2" flanges and 14 gauge steel primaries

tog headers are 1.5" primaries and "tunned length" for great hp and torque increases. dyno results show gains all accross the rpm band
S&S use 1 5/8" primaries from my understanding
which is better for 300+ wheel hp applications but will actually hurt low end power in most applications.
this has been observed on a customers car in canada. his car is supercharged and he still noticed a lack of low end power.

tog headers are CARB certified include all mounting hardware, flex pipe, gaskets, and O2 extension.

S&S are not carb certified and mounts the O2 sensor in a spot where it can only read the front bank. so if an injector failed on the rear side of the engine the O2 sensor can no longer pick it up. same as if it was running extremely rich. the O2 now only sees half of the engine. not sure if they have hardware and gaskets or not

if you buy S&S headers with no cat they do not include a flex.

Honestly you get what you pay for.
but first lets put some things aside
forget I'm a tog dealer for a sec but remember I own and alero and on my car I have tog headers. also remember I've been looking into parts for our car including S&S headers for my self for over 3 years now.
also remember my car has been on the dyno more times by its self then prolly every other alero combined.
60+ dyno pulls on file.

Not all headers are created equal. header making is an art
anyone can weld pipe together but 18+ hp in a FWD V6 at the wheels is insane.
tog puts down more power in other applications than the compitition.
in the grand prix market tog is the number one choice.
and grand prix owners have tested S&S headers

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
So much knowledge and so little time to share it with the rest of the world. :o

No, all joking aside if that info had been presented back on page one I dont think this link would be on page 4 and still going strong after close to two weeks.

Thanks Springs

Wildman and 1WhiteOSV both of you have ordered your headers from S&S now?

If this is the case I think I speak for a lot of people when I ask if its possible for either of you to get your cars dynoed before and after installation of these headers. We have read Springs' comments a couple of threads ago and I am really curious to see what performance gains the S&S headers will give proven.

[kwhauck]

Originally posted by green99gls@Oct 20 2004, 08:20 AM
Wildman and 1WhiteOSV both of you have ordered your headers from S&S now?

If this is the case I think I speak for a lot of people when I ask if its possible for either of you to get your cars dynoed before and after installation of these headers. We have read Springs' comments a couple of threads ago and I am really curious to see what performance gains the S&S headers will give proven.

yes a dyno before and after header installation by either of you would be greatly appreciated...

Originally posted by springs fastest alero@Oct 20 2004, 06:18 AM




tog headers are CARB certified include all mounting hardware, flex pipe, gaskets, and O2 extension.

not sure if they have hardware and gaskets or not

if you buy S&S headers with no cat they do not include a flex.

Seeing that I literally called and talked to S&S......I can say this:

their headers DO come w/ hardware (gaskets & all)

you CAN buy just the headers and flex WITHOUT the cat ($575 because that is what I am doing)

unless you plan on taking the headers off and on a lot, the flanges will hold up fine on the S&S...plus I am getting it CERAMIC coated which means they've gotta lifetime warranty.

I am sure TOG's are great headers (they better be for $800+) but not all of us can afford them....it's kinda like going w/ a naichspeed CAI instead of a Dr. Speed (both do well, one probably a lil bit better, but best one for the $$ is pry the cheaper one)

plus, S&S has awesome reviews over on GAGT

*****ALSO***** if anyone want's to shell out $60 for me to make a dyno run before then another $60 after, I'd be glad to but otherwise I don't think I am gonna....there's only one dyno place around where I live and it's expensive as hell. Maybe I will though..idk...we'll see how my paycheck on Friday is lol

[kwhauck]

that'd be cool if you could.....that does seem a little expensive.....usually they will give you 3 runs for like $100

it might be a while guys.....i had a mishap on the interstate w/ some @$$hole who cut me off....and ran me into a pothole on the shoulder of the road...look..

[Wildman]

I would love to dyno my car, dont know if it would be too expensive or what, but it would be very nice to put an end to the speculation of S&S vs TOG.
i don;t really care if TOG is better or if S&S is better. If its a couple of horses difference, i don't really give a crap. The price was good at S&S and thats primarily why I went with S&S, plus the good reviews. Tell me where a dyno is in the Pittsburgh area, and I will consider it, to put an end to all the arguing. Other than that, I am satisfied with my purchase.

[Naich]

Honestly, the "debate" won't ever end untill someone actually dyno's S&S headers (which I can't believe they havn't done themselves). All I'm saying is that most everyone on gagt who has had S&S headers gives them rave reviews.

lol...everybody send Wildman like $1.00 so he can use it for a dyno.....j/k

[Wildman]

Ok, so i think there is a Mustang Dyno near where I live, but i have no idea about anything about dynos. Do I need a Jet dyno or whatever, or a mustang or something???? does it matter??? something said it is a chassis dyno, what is the difference, what does it mean, i am clueless thus far..???

[mike2002]

you'd have to dyno it before and after, and with the same mods as the car that god 19whp for a fair comparision, he may have had supporting mods

plus the borla is a little bit of a bottleneck considering its 2.25" and the headers are 2.5"

people assume togs are better because they cost more. just like when i worked for best buy people assumed bose was the best we had because of the name and it costed more, little did they know how crappy it was (not saying togs are crappy) and you could get a better system for half the price.

[Wildman]

I have APOC CAI and Borla Cat back. I think his car was the exact same at the time, or he may have had a TB also. We willl have to wait for the official word on that, but I found a Mustang dyno place pretty close to me, so im going to call them today and get prices.

[Wildman]

Ok, just got off the phone. $100 for 2 runs and $25 for every additional pull.

So im gona have to drop $200 to get these things dyno'd-----ouch
I think im still gonna do it tho...

Check your local clubs and see if they are doing a dyno day. My last dyno I did on my z28 I got 2 pulls for $40. Also you can get a list of close dynojets by going to dynojets webpage.

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by Wildman@Oct 22 2004, 08:38 AM
I have APOC CAI and Borla Cat back. I think his car was the exact same at the time, or he may have had a TB also. We willl have to wait for the official word on that, but I found a Mustang dyno place pretty close to me, so im going to call them today and get prices.

I also had a tb but my car did have borla at that time. as far as cost goes and if they are the best or not. I've ran into this before but if you actually look what tog has into their headers they are making less off them than S&S is.
CARB certification is NOT cheap

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by springs fastest alero+Oct 23 2004, 12:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (springs fastest alero @ Oct 23 2004, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wildman@Oct 22 2004, 08:38 AM
I have APOC CAI and Borla Cat back. I think his car was the exact same at the time, or he may have had a TB also. We willl have to wait for the official word on that, but I found a Mustang dyno place pretty close to me, so im going to call them today and get prices.

I also had a tb but my car did have borla at that time. as far as cost goes and if they are the best or not. I've ran into this before but if you actually look what tog has into their headers they are making less off them than S&S is.
CARB certification is NOT cheap [/b][/quote]
luckily i dont live in cali.