Very Loose Steering - Slipping

[nschmidt]

I've found a couple vague threads on this issue, none that really seem to match what's wrong with my car.

First off, the steering wheel is very loose. On an angled street(for water runoff) I have to turn my wheel about 30 degrees in the opposite direction to keep it straight.

Secondly, when turning from one way to the other - like on a windy road or something - I'll turn the wheel a bit the other way and it'll move but then for a couple inches of movement the wheel will move but the tires don't turn. So the steering wheel is moving, but the tires aren't. But only for a couple of inches before the wheels continue turning.

I just put new tie rod ends on. I have new hub assemblies and rotors sitting in my garage to put on, but I'm sure the assemblies alone won't fix it.

And this could be an unrelated problem, but a steering problem none-the-less; but, when I turn my wheel from a slow start or in reverse there is a popping noise from the front of the car. Possibly my ISS all dried out? Bad ball joints probably?
Now I'll be the first to admit, I'm not much of a mechanic, but I know you guys can lead me in the right direction and I can take care of it.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[zzyzzx]

How many miles are on the car?

Were the new outer tie rod ends made in China? Did you check the inner tie rod ends? Check the sawy bar bushings. Actually I have no idea about this car, mine only has 30K miles on it, but if it's anything like my Escort, it could easily be sway bar bushings, sterring rack bushings, tie rod ends, or ball joints.

[nschmidt]

There are about 105k miles on it. I didn't check the inners, any certain way to do that?

And they're Moog tie rod ends, seemed pretty beefy.

[zzyzzx]

You should have checked the inner tie rod ends when you did the outers. With it disconnected you check for play on the inner tie rod end. So for now check to see if anything else is loose. Jack up one side and see if anything is loose. Like sway bar, struts, ball joints, etc.

[comanche]

How fast have you driven it in this condition?
Is the alignment still true? Usually when I replace tie rod ends, no matter how hard I try the alignment gets messed up.

[TdotAlero]

I am almost 100% sure it's either one of the ball joints.
Does it make a popping noise more when you turn all the way to the left or the right ?
Lift up your car, check for wheel movement to the sides and up and down. If you got some play, then it's that side's ball joint. My car had same signs and it happened to be a passenger side ball joint.
Parts will run you between $20 and $100 depending on the quality. Labour around $50-100. After you will have to do a front wheel alignment.
Good luck!

[a.graham52]

when ever a steering componant gets replaced an alignment is nessasary. to check tie-rod play lift the car and grab teh wheel at 3 and 9. rock in and out. if you feel any play then one of you tierod ends (on that side) are loose. then grab you tire at 12 and 6 and rock in and out. this will tell you if you have a bad wheel bearing. the way i check ball joints on fwd car is just grab the wheel at the bottom and push in and out. try to find play in a balljoint by pusing in and out at 12 and 6 can sometimes not work depending on the amount of play.

[nschmidt]

Originally Posted by comanche

How fast have you driven it in this condition?
Is the alignment still true? Usually when I replace tie rod ends, no matter how hard I try the alignment gets messed up.

At least 75mph. I'm sure I need an alignment, but I'd like to get the problem with my suspension solved so I don't have to get 2-3 alignments in such a short period.

Tdot/a.graham: Yeah, it does make a popping noise. I'll jack it up and test it out. I had a suspicion that it was ball joints but wanted to make sure. I'll just replace those when I do the rest of the work down there.

Thanks for the help all.

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted by nschmidt

At least 75mph. I'm sure I need an alignment, but I'd like to get the problem with my suspension solved so I don't have to get 2-3 alignments in such a short period.

That's why (on my Escort) I replaced the tie rod ends (including the inners) and ball joints, and added a camber bolt, all at the same time, then got new tires and an alignment. The parts are cheap enough to just put them in all at once and not worry about needed yet still another alignment a few months later.

[a.graham52]

make sure when you check your balljoints (if you do it the way i described) that you do NOT lift the vehicle by the control arm. you want to balljoint unloaded when testing

[Goodman]

Originally Posted by nschmidt

At least 75mph....

I am sorry! but are F**in ?

Any loose or vibration in the direction could means death to you & others on the road , imagine the ball joint breaks or tie rod at 75 mph or even at 50 mph no more control on the steering wheel & the car will crash & may hit other cars at the same time

Little scenario : You are at going 65 mph on two way line then the driver side ball joint breaks & car pull in the other line & makes you car go face to face with another car or big truck coming at you at 60+ mph... Goodbye! nice knowing you
Very! poor frontal collision rated http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F0B5wmtklA
(Grand am & Alero share same body)

So either slow down until you fix it or go in the garage & make it fix for you make them check everything

If you want to do a quick test jack up one wheel at the time & move it side ways form left to right that is for tie rod & moving the wheel up & down will be for ball joints but still i recommend you go in the garage & have them check for any loose parts on the direction , better be safe then sorry

[nschmidt]

Originally Posted by Goodman

I am sorry! but are F**in ?

Any loose or vibration in the direction could means death to you & others on the road , imagine the ball joint breaks or tie rod at 75 mph or even at 50 mph no more control on the steering wheel & the car will crash & may hit other cars at the same time

Little scenario : You are at going 65 mph on two way line then the driver side ball joint breaks & car pull in the other line & makes you car go face to face with another car or big truck coming at you at 60+ mph... Goodbye! nice knowing you
Very! poor frontal collision rated http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F0B5wmtklA
(Grand am & Alero share same body)

So either slow down until you fix it or go in the garage & make it fix for you make them check everything

If you want to do a quick test jack up one wheel at the time & move it side ways form left to right that is for tie rod & moving the wheel up & down will be for ball joints but still i recommend you go in the garage & have them check for any loose parts on the direction , better be safe then sorry

I guess to a degree, I must be. But I don't really have the luxury of sitting my car in a parking lot and buying another car until I can fix it. Driving it is just a chance I'll have to take.
Over the weekend I changed out the hub assemblies and rotors up front and it's helped a bit but it's still not completely remedied. As often as I've heard it, next thing I'll be going after is the ball joints. They seem to be a popular culprit.
Again, thanks for all the info everyone.

[a.graham52]

it sounds like your just throwing parts at it... come on... before "swap-tronics" and "guess-a-fit" parts, people actually diagnosed these issues. do like discribed above... if you cant find any loose parts but you can still feel looseness in the steering wheel then you probably have play in the rack gear. if you dont have play in the wheel but your car seems to twitch or wander going down the road then the alignment is probably jsut out.

[BoarderTy]

when my car had a "popping noise" in the front when it came to steering or turning it would pop a few times and then be stuck in that position. for instance taking a right turn it might pop 1-3 times but then once i straightened out it would feel like it would pull to the right. same with left side when making left turn. anyway it was due to needed new suspension in the front. replaced them and now its all good.

[a.graham52]

Originally Posted by BoarderTy

when my car had a "popping noise" in the front when it came to steering or turning it would pop a few times and then be stuck in that position. for instance taking a right turn it might pop 1-3 times but then once i straightened out it would feel like it would pull to the right. same with left side when making left turn. anyway it was due to needed new suspension in the front. replaced them and now its all good.

sounds like strut top bearings.

[nschmidt]

Originally Posted by a.graham52

it sounds like your just throwing parts at it... come on... before "swap-tronics" and "guess-a-fit" parts, people actually diagnosed these issues. do like discribed above... if you cant find any loose parts but you can still feel looseness in the steering wheel then you probably have play in the rack gear. if you dont have play in the wheel but your car seems to twitch or wander going down the road then the alignment is probably jsut out.

I already had the assemblies and rotors before this even started happening, I just haven't been able to put them on. And when I took all of the stuff off for those I was able to look at it a little bit. I did check play in the wheel vertically and horizontally but it didn't seem to move at all.
And my car is at 105k right now and none of these parts has been switched in the time since I got the car at 45k. So I don't entirely think it's going to hurt anything.
I'll check out the rack gear since nothing really feels loose other than the steering wheel.
Suspension stuff will be next on the list once I get back from the family trip. Assuming I get the slipping figured out.

Anyone have an idea what a mechanic would charge just to check it out? Could probably save me a ton of trouble.

[a.graham52]

oo also check your bushings. on the control arm. those could be pulled out as well. take a pry bar and go under the control arm and up though onto the craddle. pry up and down and see if the controlarm moves but the bushing doesnt. thats common. and if your aligment is out.. it could make your car feel realy wierd too.

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted by a.graham52

it sounds like your just throwing parts at it... come on... before "swap-tronics" and "guess-a-fit" parts, people actually diagnosed these issues. do like discribed above...

I understand, but on a car with a lot fo miles on it and all or most original front end suspension parts sometimes it just makes sense to do a clean sweep if you can't find an offending part the usual way. Espically if you are doing the work yourself. If you are paying someone else to do it then obviously it doesn't.

[nschmidt]

So, I took it into a shop to have them check it out. Supposedly there's a bolt on the rack that wasn't welded correctly and it's come loose. So they're saying the whole rack is loose now. Can anyone back this up? That sound feasible to you guys?

[a.graham52]

tighten the bolt... onlyway to find out for sure.