C2's Alero Updates - Page 17

dbral · 10-05-2023, 12:03 AM

X2^^!

[ion] C2 · 10-08-2023, 02:14 PM

So I'm definitely going to have fender braces made to stiffen the front end of the car chassis, but this torque steer is basically amplified by the wheels being offset outward and negative cambered so much. Based on my limited research into what causes torque steer and what types of suspension parts vehicles without torque steer (Civic Type R) employ, I would need to custom make some knuckles to mostly eliminate it by making the turning axis centered within the wheel so there is no forward/rearward torque applied influencing the steering.

Basically redesigning the entire way the front suspension works. Not sure if I'm going to do that, as I don't know much about suspension and it's easy to make things handle worse.

Otherwise just fender bracing, polyurethane control arm bushings (ordered), custom control arms (just because I want to make some), and custom coilovers will be the extent I go and just endure the remaining wild torque steer it will still produce... I think I will also lower the ball joint position so the car's roll center is lower after watching a lot of videos on that.

Going to get a daytime video when I'm able (around Oct 19) so you guys can see how wild it is to stay straight. It's truly terrifying lol.

dbral · 10-13-2023, 08:09 PM

The suspension example shown in the video is everything that the Alero is not lol. There are a lot of boxes to check off to get to that level for sure. Have you decided what suspension/driveline you want to use with the next build?

[ion] C2 · 10-14-2023, 01:35 PM

Yeah I mentioned a while back I had decided to stay with FWD, since there are quick FWD cars and traction isn't as big of a problem as I thought it would be. So I got the LSD and installed it, and plan to brace up the new chassis and install poly bushings and such. Going to start doing work to it shortly.

But I had a surprise wake up call about torque steer and it made me wonder if I should actually still go RWD or AWD. Then I started thinking if I did that, I should make it an automatic trans too, because I'm not great at driving manual. I hate taking off from stops with this clutch. While it's fun to shift, an auto would shift much faster (as I don't want to break the manual trans from slamming through the gears as fast as possible) and I can just get in and go without the stress of stalling it at lights/stop signs. Not sure what trans I would even use though.

dbral · 10-18-2023, 07:10 PM

Oh man, not an auto trans. noooo!!! lol How about a type r suspension swap and somehow hook that honda 6 speed to your engine. Joking of course but holy crap did you see how smooth/quick that trans was able to be shifted? Dang...so refined.

No idea what a/t would handle your power levels either. Guessing a big expensive custom one would be needed lol. Check out "bullseye powered ZZP Grand prix" on you tube. Serious fwd action that may be close to your output. Sounds like an auto to me but not sure. It is an older video but maybe the people can still be reached and are willing to answer questions.

Nothing wrong with with improving and experimenting with what you already have like you are doing. After following your build for years, i predict you will progress from modding the hell out of what you have to a full suspension swap from something else when it is all said and done lol That is the definition of hotrodding right there in my opinion.

[ion] C2 · 10-22-2023, 06:51 PM

Turbo sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOH1sQrUeEE

Couldn't do full throttle 60-130 stuff, seemed sketchy as there's a big clunking issue up front. Something's up with the suspension or brakes.

dbral · 11-01-2023, 07:41 PM

Nice vid and hope you get the front end noise repaired and ready for a WOT highway pull

Any thoughts of RWD ?

[ion] C2 · 11-01-2023, 11:11 PM

I flip flop, probably just stay FWD manual lol. The torque steer is manageable and will be improved with the proper suspension/hub changes I'm making. The car is almost exactly where I want it to be, so it's a little ridiculous to make such a drastic change at this point from a cost/benefit perspective.

Should be doing the half cage and fender bars this month.

Also working on 3D scanning things and designing them (seat belt guide, intake tubing, and potential body kit).

And should have a couple high quality photos in 2 weeks too. Having a pro take a couple particular shots I'm looking for...

dbral · 11-03-2023, 09:26 PM

Good deal bud. Looking forward to what you have in mind for the suspension changes. Big challenge you are facing right there for sure though. i imagine there is quite a lot of learning involved with just driving a car like yours at speed even after you get the suspension where it needs to be. But when you get it set up and you feel comfortable with it look out....Would love to see an Alero tearing it up on a road course, esp. on the straights lol.

[ion] C2 · 11-04-2023, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [ion] C2

Couldn't do full throttle 60-130 stuff, seemed sketchy as there's a big clunking issue up front. Something's up with the suspension or brakes.

There's a definite clunk when braking perhaps 70% power, and then when initiating a high torque situation from the engine afterward. The only thing I can find is that the wheels have a lot of rotational play compared to the stock Alero I have.

From the video, it seems like maybe the wheel is able to turn before the axle does, indicating possible issues with the CV joint that's there, or the hub in some way, perhaps.

VIDEO: https://youtube.com/shorts/P02vbDRWJIg
Sorry for the excess breathing noises, had the phone right against my face lol.

dbral · 11-04-2023, 11:39 PM

In the last 3 second or so of the video it does look like the inner clamp/axle stays stationary while the wheel/CV/boot are turned. Does look like quite a bit of slop. Is that a stock axle? Could you swap with your other car as a test?

May be something else going on too. From your description, it could possibly be suspension/subframe/chassis related. Would be great to have a set of electronic chassis ears to narrow down the location. Guessing there is no way to duplicate the noise without actually driving. Would not hurt to put a wrench on all of your subframe/control arm/knuckle bolts/ball joint nuts and such too. As many times as that subframe probably has been out recently, maybe something just did not get tightened or tightened enough maybe. Dang man, if it's not one thing it's another for you.

You can get a basic Steelman Chassis ears set on amazon for around $100. Might be worth it

[ion] C2 · 11-05-2023, 01:25 AM

That's cool I didn't know a tool like that existed .

I just realized the clunk is the same one I've been hearing when I stall the car harshly, and hearing it during braking and hard acceleration started after the recent extremely hard stall that was louder than usual.

I had examined the engine movement a month ago on camera when you jerk the engine and it made the noise even though nothing in the bay touches anything.

Pretty sure it's just these old CV joints after taking quite a beating with all the high instantaneous torque from harsh stalls and hard shifting.

dbral · 11-08-2023, 11:11 PM

Have a little experience with that tool and thinking that it does pretty good with locating heavy/sharp type noises. It didn't help me with softer noises and some squeaks very much but that might have been user error on my part.

Hoping the axles fix your issue so you can keep moving forward but if not (and for the record, i don't know anything about chassis dynos lol) was wondering if you could set your car up on a dyno and try to duplicate road conditions in that fashion? Just throwing that out there as a last resort type thing. Not sure if dyno shops use their stuff in that manner, safety factor, and whatever else is involved.

[ion] C2 · 11-10-2023, 11:28 AM

Installed the old IAC and everything is fine. The new style IAC just apparently doesn't like to jive with my system.

Tried to have a shop replace the axles, they claim they tried as hard as they can and cannot get them out of the transmission. I don't understand since these axles have been removed and reinstalled at least 3 times now. Why would they be stuck. Frustrating.

Here's what happened after I left the shop. Unfortunately I have the mic off because I used to have that super stiff engine mount that made everything vibrate, figured it would be useless audio, but will turn it back on:
https://youtu.be/5YHWlC9d-8Q

dbral · 11-12-2023, 12:33 AM

LOL yeah there are some impatient and out of touch drivers on the road for sure. Funny how you left that whole group of cars behind in like 4 seconds once you got it going.

Had a few stubborn axles that required someone to help lightly pry down and pull outward opposite of the side that i was striking or prying to kind of square things up to allow that circlip to release. Don't remember having trouble removing them in our Alero or Cavalier. Thinking i just popped them out with a long flat prybar with a bend on the end.

Then there was the heavy-duty IFS GM front diffs that the circlip would jam itself into the axle side gear during removal. It was always the left side stubby axle for some reason. Those were nightmares but they would come out like 1/2 inch or so before the bad stuff really happened.

A worst case scenario would be that the axle splines and side gear splines in the diff are starting to strip and they are in a condition where they jammed themselves together. You could check for that maybe by jacking the car up like you had it in the video and pulling and pushing on the inner axle housing/tri-pots. They should slide in and out of the trans slightly, maybe like 1/8" or so.

Never seen that happen but you have enough power to cause something like that to happen i would imagine lol. Would explain your noise on accel but braking?....and would have thought they would have stripped out completely by now if that was the case but who knows. Hope you get it squared away. What about taking it back to that performance shop?

[ion] C2 · 11-12-2023, 01:56 AM

Yeah I'll have to just kick up the RPMs to 2k+ every time I leave a light just to be safe. Like with my last clutch, I would baby it too much and it would be like nope RPM too low INSTANT STALL lol. Most cars you can immediately disengage it and you can save it, but this thing is just.. bang done. Whatev, if I burn it out quickly it's just the cost of having outrageously higher torque than stock. If the clutch was larger diameter there'd be better options for smooth engagement out there. Hoping I can get Centerforce to make me something still. Gonna 3D scan the bellhousing to give them more info to work with and email them to see if there's any chance they can help me soon.

Ya I'll just have UMS do 'em. Trying to get my truck in there keep waiting on their schedule to open up. All my turbo supplies are in the truck bed drawers ready to go. Time to boost it.

Pretty darn sure it's just the CV that's damaged, but even if I break them it won't be a dangerous failure, so I have no concerns continuing to drive it in the meantime. Will try to get some more in-car footage very soon.

[ion] C2 · 11-12-2023, 08:18 PM

Tiny bit of flexing on a BMW and an example of torque steer on the highway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTWTym2XdR8

sleepyalero · 11-13-2023, 05:38 PM

I need to see some real getting down.

[ion] C2 · 11-14-2023, 07:32 PM

Well the other video I posted was at 85% throttle, but I went out to get some full power highway stuff for you and on my way to the gas station the clutch pedal stopped working. The pedal hits what feels like a hard wall halfway down. Coasted off into a neighborhood, waited forever for tow truck, towed it to the shop.

RWD/AWD swap looking good lately, lol. Dunno. The shop had a ton of trouble bleeding the new all plastic clutch master cylinder and it kept cracking. Luk said they don't make the old metal version anymore. If the master's the problem here, I'm gonna need to custom make one that's strong enough to work with this clutch.

[ion] C2 · 11-15-2023, 08:58 PM

Shop says when they went to move the car from where I dropped it off, the clutch was operating perfectly fine.

So what would cause me to hit a hard wall halfway down when pressing the clutch pedal? I was repeatedly hitting it while I waited for the tow truck. Didn't try it after it was unloaded and parked, though. Maybe something in the way physically in the pedal's lever?