Looking for where to start modding...

I know this is posted throughout the eco specific questions forum but perhaps it can all be assembled into one thread... I have decided I would like to make some serious power out of my ecotec over time (perhaps in a year or two 400+hp)...I know that I should start with headers and exhaust, CAI (perhaps make a custom one thats bigger) and get a bigger TB, but where after that?
I was wondering where I should start first and some of the best sources to get these parts from (lets make a comprehensive list in one thread of good parts for the ecotec, just in case grouch isnt able to get his site back up soon)
I heardGM perfromance parts are good,but lets clarify this...I definetely plan to turbo or supercharge so that is where I need to go in determining parts and mods to be done...just throw me some opinions and the right direction to look in....Thanks for the help

If you're seriously entertaining the idea of 400 streetable horsepower, save your money. Things like a CAI, exhaust, a header and a slightly bigger throttle body will all be wasted since you'll replace them when you reach for that 400HP.

For that you need to concentrate of an efficient turbo system, a good flowing cylinder head, and camshafts that move the horsepower peak up closer to 7000rpms... that should net you a solid 350-400HP on 91 octane at relatively low boost levels (20 or less psi)

Thats my plan in the future, what I want to do is upgrade my engine with the simple things first that will make adding the turbo when I get it all I have to do, so that the engine is already upgraded to withstand it, but dont you have to have the simple stuff upgraded first like a more flowing intake and exhaust to withstand the airflow, as well as stronger manifolds and stronger rods and pistons?

A turbo system is in a way tied to your exhaust system, so you can not upgrade the exhaust first and then just add in a turbo later. The turbo runs off exhaust gasses and thus needs a custom exhaust manifold (called a turbo manifold or turbo header). After said turbo manifold, you need a custom downpipe, a flex pipe, and then an exhaust system rougly 3" in diameter (for 400HP, at least). The biggest issues is getting enough air into the cylinders, and a well-ported & polished cylinder head and a well-designed camshaft profile and valvetrain are key. The pistons and rods of course need to be replaced with stronger parts, but that's a more simple/straightforward decision compared to the cylinder head. Get low-expansion forged aluminum pistons, gapless rings, and forged steel connecting rods.

The intake and throttle body would best be replaced as well, but this is more trivial and don't need to be replaced until the turbo kit is actually installed. A high-flowing intake and throttle body designed for a turbocharged engine fitted to a stock ecotec will only hurt it's overall performance. Just because you hear kids always talking about getting a shiny new cold air intake, exhaust and a header, doesnt mean that's the first place to start if you're serious about wanting to make 400 streetable horsepower with your ecotec.

It's a lot of work for any engine to put out almost 3 times its regular horsepower (400 versus 140), and it requires careful parts selection and a lot of knowledge. You obviously have a lot of learning to do...

[BLK03GXS]

Yea.. you need to not worry about wasting money and time playing arround with mods like Cai and exhaust, headder etc.
If you seriously plan on spending the money to make 400hp, then you should get things like upgraded engine mounts, bottem end work (crank pistons, bore, rings, rods) and P&P head+cams... the kinda stuff that you can keep after you get the turbo, and wont be useless to you..
If you want to get headder and stuff.. well you could Go All motor or with a S/c, then you wouldnt have to replace that later... for example... but i agree with Final-Reality that you need to lean a lil first b4 attempting to make a 400hp eco.. unless your a visa mechanic...lol
You should really sit down and make a plan, of what mods you want to do , your goal and how much you have to spend, so that you can get the parts you want, and dont end up buying things twice, and in the long run wasting cash.

Thanks for the help guys, thats my plan to spend the next 6 months researching and planning it out, while I slowly gather the money for this project....I see that everything has to be planned around the turbo and or S/C if thats what I plan to add so go I definetely need to find a good turbo system as mentioned above and plan off it, and start saving.....my goal is to have this done within the next two summers....but for now it looks like my car stays all stock :thumbsup: the heck with some project car, this is my project car now

If you want to make 400HP and keep it daily driveable, you definately wan't to go with a turbocharger, not a supercharger...

[BLK03GXS]

Well... IMO S/c is far more streetable when it is set up right than a turbo is.
Besides its not like a lot of easyily available turbo kits are availible, so it wouldnt be much more Difficult to do, allthou there are a lot of turbo parts availible.. but S/c arent that much more uncommon

I wrote Exploited tonight asking for some info on their kit, I have read the hahn kit is better though? so I will contact them tomorrow about info on their kit. It seems they both offer most of the parts to make the upgrade, but i see most people that who have turbo'd their ecotec did most of it custom....so Im guessing theres a lot more needed than what those kits give, even the stage 4 exploited or hahn....more research needed :thumbsup:

For one BLK03GXS, there arent any superchargers available for the ECOTEC yet other than the RSM one, which is a centrifugal supercharger and is worse than either a turbo or a roots-type supercharger.

Second, if you run high amounts of boost, you'll want to use a turbocharger because it's not always turning, like a supercharger is, so your gas mileage won't be as bad because your motor isnt always wasting 20-30hp (or possibly more) just to turn the damn thing...

Thirdly, I think it'd be tough to find a supercharger big enough to put on the ecotec to reliably boost ~20psi and still run on pump gas, since it's tough to intercool the air charge of a supercharger...

Fourthly, the piercing whine produced by a small-ish supercharger spinning at high RPMs with a tiny pully on it would get on my nerves on any sort of extended trip...

I definetely agree with you there Final. After reading up about the differences, I would gladly take the not getting as much power on the lower part of the rpm range to over the long run have more power, and you dont lose any power with a turbo to the engine because its free spinning from the engine. I plan on getting the intercooler that is I believe almost done testing that is suppose to lower the "lag" turbos have to the lower rpm ranges and almost eliminate it. Of course this is a 2 year project mainly to just save the money up so that I can do it all at once and not have my car down for an extended period of time for unnecessary part adds and all.

I got a response back from exploited racing, they seem to either not care to help much or dont know much period. here is a copy of the email I got back from them with the email i sent them. Seems the Hahn is the way to go anyway, kinda disappoints me though on the exploited kit.....

it will adda bout 150whp. no other parts are needed. it should fit.

-Brian-


>From: Wy3134@aol.com
>To: GSXTboost@hotmail.com
>Subject: Ecotec 2.2L turbocharger question
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:05:39 EST
>
>I am very interested in upgrading my 2002 2.2L ecotec Alero (currently all
>stock)with your turbocharger stage 4 kit. I am curious about what kind of
>gains
>this kit gives as well as any additional parts I may need to purchase or
>other
>parts of my car I will need to upgrade with the addition of this kit. I
>know
>you dont specifically offer this for the alero, however the engine is the
>same
>for both a cavy and alero and I am just curious for some info before I
>decide
>to go forth with this project. I appreciate any help. Thanks!

[BLK03GXS]

Originally posted by Final-Reality@Mar 12 2004, 03:16 PM
For one BLK03GXS, there arent any superchargers available for the ECOTEC yet other than the RSM one, which is a centrifugal supercharger and is worse than either a turbo or a roots-type supercharger.

Second, if you run high amounts of boost, you'll want to use a turbocharger because it's not always turning, like a supercharger is, so your gas mileage won't be as bad because your motor isnt always wasting 20-30hp (or possibly more) just to turn the damn thing...

Thirdly, I think it'd be tough to find a supercharger big enough to put on the ecotec to reliably boost ~20psi and still run on pump gas, since it's tough to intercool the air charge of a supercharger...

Fourthly, the piercing whine produced by a small-ish supercharger spinning at high RPMs with a tiny pully on it would get on my nerves on any sort of extended trip...

All Valid points Final-Reality...
But its not like a Turbo is the holy grail of performance parts... it dose take SOME of the engines power to turn it, albeit much less than a S/c, (turbo is i think about 50-100% more efficient)
But personally.. I like S/c whine
Im more of a "No Replacement For Displacment" kinda guy anyways...lol

so u guys are talkin about 400 hp streetable how hard do u think 300-350 hp and about how much will it run(price)? i can get someone to do all the work i just need to find a place to purchase the stuff for the turbo kit

If you get a big enough turbo to start, the HP gain is limited to how much PSI the engine can take. After I get done researching for parts to make my car roughly 400hp, im going to look at also having the engine rebuilt to withstand as much as 25-30psi, and if its not too much more than all the mods that have to be done already to withstand the 400hp which will be about 15-20psi, I might just go ahead and have a new engine built so that way I can save the time and money of taking the engine apart a few times to add parts...more research needed first, but what I have come up with so far...you can get 300hp runnin about 6 psi off a turbo kit and nothing else modded in the car (a good turbo kit will come with the upgrades needed)...its more of a research and guess and hope your guess is right at this point in time, not much has been done for a low end power ecotec on turbo, there are a couple of cars on the ecotec runnin 800 and one perhaps a little over 1000hp...correct me here if anything is wrong folks.

As Final once said, the Ecotec has loads of potential, some of which has already been displayed (as you can see in my sig). btw, I'm reading into turbochargers as well, so if you need any more info send any of us a pm or post again.

Hmm perhaps we should start a topic maybe to share some info havik?

I am also curious to know which kit u are looking at to get or at least ur current favorite, I know the hahn looks like the best but its not available yet for the alero or for the cavy right?

Ok, here's what I'll do. I'll take all the information from all the turbo threads and condense them into one thread. Give me a bit of time though. As far as a current favourite kit, I'd have to say that the hahn kit looks rather impressive, but I think I need more research before I can honestly say which kit is better.

I know Landon (AleroSS) has mentioned the Maximum Boost book by Corky Bell (I'm getting it later this week), so maybe you can check that out too. As far as info on the net, a google search reveals loads of info.

I appreciate the work, take ur time on the condensing, yea Ive done a little google search but it takes some time to sort through and determine whats important and whats garbage and whats relevant. I will definetely check out that book as well, luckily this is a project im planning for next winter so time is on my side....