Short Tracing

[cherrington17]

yes. so i need to take my doors off, take the bulbs out, and retest? (the center console isn't even in the car, so its not those...

[Nate's Alero]

i am never doing this to my car now.....

[cherrington17]

my car ran perfectly fine, until i started screwing with things and blew it up. just learn from my mistake and run it like i have it now. fuse tap the INST LPS fuse, and run a new circuit.

[lonnie]

Good luck Cherry It may very well be something simple. Now let this be a lesson to others to run a circuit seperate of the cars circuit so that there is always a plan B.

Nate~This is a very good mod to do, and I would like to do it myself whe n I get the motivation, and Cherry has done a good job, unfortunately things happen, and when dealing with this amount of wiring something is always bound to happen.

Cherry is there anyway else I can help, let me know!

[cherrington17]

i'll know more tomorrow afternoon, monday, and a little tues morn.... unfortunately, i'm stuck at work 10-9 today.

[cherrington17]

alrighty... doors are off. checked the bulbs and one was dead. but they are halogens (might be replacing them all with leds, haven't decided yet) but one thing troubles me about this check....

if its blown, that wouldn't cause a short. it'd just not light that ONE bulb up....

but i'll also check the brown wires again later today, after work. see if they are still shorted w/o the doors connected.

how would i test the relays under the hood to see if thats the problem? w/ the ones that could possibly be affected, are there any other in the car that i could pull and replace, to see if it might fix something, or do i have to go buy all new, just to test?

oook. 'nother update:

with the doors off, all the browns that were shorted, are no longer shorted. so it was clearly something in the doors.... (ugh) lets hope its the bulbs (im attempting to replace them all tonight)

the other question i have, the downside brown ones... several are still shorted, and they clearly run to the back of the vehicle, down the plastic stripping under the kick panel... where do those go???

also, for pure aesthetics.... for the control lights (little bulbs in the switches) they are powered by the gray wires, right? (that'd make sense) would putting a resistor inline with the gray wires going to the switch, hurt anything??

[Cliff8928]

Well, Are you sure they're shorted, or are the lights in the door allowing a path to ground.

[cherrington17]

the ones on the bottom of the picture are showing that they are connected to ground, and the ones on top (w/o the switches in the door) aren't anymore.

when i checked the bulbs, there all of there had continuity, except one...


where could those wires possibly be going, heading toward the backseat?

and would a resistor in line w/ the gray wires affect the switch at all, or are those solely for lighting up the bulbs?

[lonnie]

Originally Posted by cherrington17

alrighty... doors are off. checked the bulbs and one was dead. but they are halogens (might be replacing them all with leds, haven't decided yet) but one thing troubles me about this check....

if its blown, that wouldn't cause a short. it'd just not light that ONE bulb up....

No This would cause an open because a bulb reads as a short..if you take a meter across a bulb you should read continuity.

Originally Posted by cherrington17

but i'll also check the brown wires again later today, after work. see if they are still shorted w/o the doors connected.

how would i test the relays under the hood to see if thats the problem?

One way to test them is to put 12v on one side of the coil and ground the other side and read with the meter on the volt setting that it is reading 12v on the switched side when you put the ground on, and when you take it off you shouldn't read any voltage. I wouldn't go through all that trouble, but there should only be one relay I believe and that is the auto park lamp relay..at least thats all I see.

Originally Posted by cherrington17

w/ the ones that could possibly be affected, are there any other in the car that i could pull and replace, to see if it might fix something, or do i have to go buy all new, just to test?

All new bulbs or all new relays? I dont think so! If you are pulling the bulbs and testing make sure you read across the socket because then you are testing to make sure the socket isn't shorted. Also like I said above, when you test a bulb it should read continuity on it. Some with two filiments will read continuity on two legs and then the other two legs will read continuity.

Originally Posted by cherrington17

oook. 'nother update:

with the doors off, all the browns that were shorted, are no longer shorted. so it was clearly something in the doors.... (ugh) lets hope its the bulbs (im attempting to replace them all tonight)

the other question i have, the downside brown ones... several are still shorted, and they clearly run to the back of the vehicle, down the plastic stripping under the kick panel... where do those go???

When you cut those are you sure those weren't the brake lights, you may want to check that out cause all the lights in the back are feed with brown wires..ie third brake light, tail lights, parking lights...etc

Originally Posted by cherrington17

also, for pure aesthetics.... for the control lights (little bulbs in the switches) they are powered by the gray wires, right? (that'd make sense) would putting a resistor inline with the gray wires going to the switch, hurt anything??

Yes this is quite possible cause remember you are reducing the amount of current that is either required or need. With to small a resistor in series it could cause the lights to not turn on at all, and if so then they would be dim...all depends on the size and if it is letting the correct amount of current through.

Originally Posted by cherrington17

the ones on the bottom of the picture are showing that they are connected to ground, and the ones on top (w/o the switches in the door) aren't anymore.

Ok that makes sense if the ones at the bottom of the pic are connected to the lights then they should read ground.

Originally Posted by cherrington17

when i checked the bulbs, there all of there had continuity, except one...


where could those wires possibly be going, heading toward the backseat?

and would a resistor in line w/ the gray wires affect the switch at all, or are those solely for lighting up the bulbs?

If they are heading towards the back seat then I'm almost positive that they are for the taillights, but make sure cause sometimes those wires do that then turn and run under the seats. And yes the wrong size resistor could affect the circuit cause it would reduce the current on the line. If what you mean is that you cut the gray wire and connected one side to a resistor and the other side to the resistor. You got to remember that one change to the grey wires affects the rest of the circuit...I really don't think those brown wires are for the interior lights at all, and that the grey wires that run in that harnes are for them and may divide up some where under the dash.

[cherrington17]

well dammit...

and i'm asking about resistors in the gray lines going into the switch harnesses, because it appears (in the functioning of the switch) that the gray wires ONLY supply power for the bulbs. to which i'm replacing those halogens with leds. i haven't test in car yet, but w/ the meter continuity is only present on one peg for lighted power.

and i guess i gotta go rewire my brake lights. dammit again...


so we haven't really made any ground then... the doors didn't have any noticible shorts. ONE bulb didn't have continuity, but when put on 12v test leads, it still lit up....


and just thinking here... why would the short in the transaxel light disappear, when i cut those brown wires???

[cherrington17]

ok... so i'm confused now. w/ those browns cut, and my doors still off....

my brake lights are still working, and my cruise control lamps are on. so when i put my doors back on (before i reconnect the browns) if they stay on, its something in those brown wires. if they go off, its definitely the doors.

but if my brakes work... (confused part) what the hell do those brown wires do!? i don't seem to have lost anything.... (i guess i get to trace those now, don't i?)

[lonnie]

Originally Posted by cherrington17

well dammit...

and i'm asking about resistors in the gray lines going into the switch harnesses, because it appears (in the functioning of the switch) that the gray wires ONLY supply power for the bulbs. to which i'm replacing those halogens with leds. i haven't test in car yet, but w/ the meter continuity is only present on one peg for lighted power.

and i guess i gotta go rewire my brake lights. dammit again...


so we haven't really made any ground then... the doors didn't have any noticible shorts. ONE bulb didn't have continuity, but when put on 12v test leads, it still lit up....


and just thinking here... why would the short in the transaxel light disappear, when i cut those brown wires???

Damn it I had responded to each question but the server screwed me, so let me shorten it cause I don't want to type all that again.

We have made some ground, the only problem is that we have jumped all ove the place that it is hard to keep up with. Responding to the question about the resistors...Yes it could affect the circuit becasue they are reducing the current on that circuit, now with that said it all depends on the size of the resistors and what is on the circuit. Let me explain. If you are only running LED's and are using the resistors to reduce the current for them but also have bulbs on there of say any type then you could either not have them working at all, or they will be very dim, because they aren't getting enough juice. If you have resistors on each grey wire coming from that fuse block you may want to look at that again.

See what I think is going on is I'm thinking that everything is hooked up the same as factory which is the truly only way to trouble shoot the circuit correctly. If there are resistors and other lights hooked up to what we are testing then the whole dynamic changes.

As for the short being gone when one of the brown wires was cut is confusing. I'll have to think about that.

[cherrington17]

well... there are still 4 brown connected. the three thick center ones, and one of the smaller thin ones.

but still... that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

and about the resistors... i'm gonna give it a shot. while i was checking the bulbs that were in there, most of them got obliterated anyway (fyi, they don't just pull out of the socket) so i'd have to replace them anyhow. I don't think it'll be a problem, because there is one pin in each little harness that is dedicated for powering the light bulb. so a 600ohm resistor in line shouldn't hurt it anymore then putting an led anywhere else in the car. electrically, it'll still look like a tiny halogen... just with less current being drawn.

[lonnie]

Originally Posted by cherrington17

ok... so i'm confused now. w/ those browns cut, and my doors still off....

my brake lights are still working, and my cruise control lamps are on. so when i put my doors back on (before i reconnect the browns) if they stay on, its something in those brown wires. if they go off, its definitely the doors.

but if my brakes work... (confused part) what the hell do those brown wires do!? i don't seem to have lost anything.... (i guess i get to trace those now, don't i?)

..but you said you rewired them before right, so that could explain that, are you saying that as it stands now the brakes, reverse, and signals all work in the back? Did you take off the bypass that you had in? Those browns are either the tail lights or in the front. I see that five of those browns run from the right side fuse panel to:
1 to the Left rear lamp assembly
1 to the Right rear lamp assembly
1 to the license plate lamp
1 to the Left rear compartment lid back-up/tail lamp
1 to the Right rear compartment lid back-up/tail lamp

There is also one brown that runs from the right side fuse panel that goes to the steering wheel controls and steering wheel coils, and should be fused at 2amps

...so that is 6 of the 9 browns that you have, and I think the other three are different sizes, and are possibly the ones you were able to reconnect.

[lonnie]

Originally Posted by cherrington17

ok... so i'm confused now. w/ those browns cut, and my doors still off....

my brake lights are still working, and my cruise control lamps are on. so when i put my doors back on (before i reconnect the browns) if they stay on, its something in those brown wires. if they go off, its definitely the doors.

but if my brakes work... (confused part) what the hell do those brown wires do!? i don't seem to have lost anything.... (i guess i get to trace those now, don't i?)

..but you said you rewired them before right, so that could explain that, are you saying that as it stands now the brakes, reverse, and signals all work in the back? Did you take off the bypass that you had in? Those browns are either the tail lights or in the front. I see that five of those browns run from the right side fuse panel to:
1 to the Left rear lamp assembly
1 to the Right rear lamp assembly
1 to the license plate lamp
1 to the Left rear compartment lid back-up/tail lamp
1 to the Right rear compartment lid back-up/tail lamp

There is also one brown that runs from the right side fuse panel that goes to the steering wheel controls and steering wheel coils, and should be fused at 2amps

...so that is 6 of the 9 browns that you have, and I think the other three are different sizes, and are possibly the ones you were able to reconnect.

....nevermind the front none of the browns that run to the right side interior fuse panel run up front so don't worry about the front at all.

[cherrington17]

alright... so i'll go check those, see what i have/don't have.

where would i find a contact for the steering wheel controls, so i can find out which one of those, that one is?

[cherrington17]

k... so right rear turning signal is out. looks like liscense plate is too. cant check back up lights... since i'm the only one here. (that'd be bad to attempt)

[lonnie]

Cherry there is also a brown wire that runs from the Fuse block and splits and goes to the Sound system and the Auto park lamp cntrl relay.

Here are the grid codes so you know where each wire hooks in to the fuse panel, this is according to a 2000 though

C1~Left rear lamp assembly
B1~Right rear lamp assembly
A1~License lamp
A2~Left Rear compartment lid back-up/ tail lamp
A3~Right Rear compartment lid back-up/ tail lamp


Here's a way to test the whole lamp circuit. Right if you still have all the browns disconnected pull out relay (19) which is your Auto Park Lamp Cntrl Relay. Take you meter and set it for DC volts, put you positive lead in the socket for pin T9 and the black lead to ground you shouldn't read any voltage. If so this tells us that there is a hot wire across the browns from the fuse block to the relay under the hood. If you don't read any voltage this tells us that the browns from where they are cut to the relay are good.

Like I said you could test the relay but you will need a power supply here is the pin out of the relay
T8~ is the ground side of the coil
V9~ is the hot side of the coil
V8~ is the Open side of the relay and is always hot in the car
T9~ is the Closed side of the relay and is where the lights are tied in


Only test this out of the circuit so that no more damage is caused!

To test this you will only need a small amount of voltage across T8 (negative) and V9(positvive) of the coil. Next use your continuity tester and put the black lead on pin T9 and the red lead on V8, now toggle the power when you turn the power on you should read continuity, and when the power is off you should not.

[cherrington17]

ok... for testing the relay... i have 85,86,87,30 for contacts.

85/86 appear to be the power and grounds and 30/87 are the switch... so what number do i replace with what you posted??

[cherrington17]

nvm. my tarded ness wore off, and i figured it out. (i've used relays before, i just forgot how to read them) the relay clicks, and has continuity.

and i tested the socket and got 9 millivolts. which i'm guessing is negligible... thats just bad grounding somewhere.