supercharger?

[CiscoPath]

Originally Posted by -Alero-

to me and i msure most people, it doesnt matter what you have what you drive or what powers it, if its fast, its fast, and if you wanna laugh at the cookie cutter laugh away but know the cookie cutter will always be faster

That's a very off statement. The 6 bone stock is the fastest of all the Als. The only reason an argument can even be made for the 4 is the stick to our slush box. If we had stix, you'd still be slower. If you boosted and tuned a 6 with the same setup as a 4, the 6 would still be faster. Like it's been said, it's easy as hell to buy a cookie cutter kit and have the exact same setup as cars half a decade before yours.

And as I said, the 6 is a labor of love which means you literally put in real work to fine tune it. And since the 6 rarely shows up in shops (who generally charge ya out the butt), most of the work is done yourself. Not just take it to a shop, have them install it, and re-flash your PCM with the boost settings as the first five 4s they worked on earlier that week. And I'm thankful for the different shops that lay out equip for us. With the 6 being so downplayed over the years, they really don't have to waste time on us. But they see the potential in our motors. So big ups to the supporters of the N-body 6 because technically, there is no love for the N 4s. Just leftovers from the J-body era.

And to me, i think the whole "it's less expensive to boost a 4" theory is a huge misconception. The good thing about cookie-cutter kits is that all the kinks and miscalculations have already been worked for you. I'm pretty sure the instructions that come with the kit tell you what "safe" level of boost to run stock, and what parts to upgrade for more. 6s have been playing Russian roulette for years trying to perfect an exact formula, so to protect their investment, they re-inforce every piece of equipment they can. Not the add-ons, but the internals. So once it's all said and done, a boosted 6 more likely runs better and more efficiently than any 4, and if a 4 tries to keep up with that 6, BOOM. General concensus, more expensive. My opinion, more reliable, more efficient.

And I hate to bust your bubble but it's never JUST been about being fast. It DOES matter what you drive and what drives it. For a long time, drag racing was synonymous with V8s, and it had its fan base. But it wasn't until the first tweaked Honda went down the 1/4 pulling 9s that the sport got blown wide open. Of course, that buzz has worn off a bit, but one principle will always hold true and stand the test of time: Not what is fast, but what you MAKE fast. And we can't base that off the car itself since we all have the same cars. The principle has to be applied to the motors.

Wanna see the "principle" in action? Well, the proof is in the pudding (the pudding being this site...........and I plan on making sweet sweet love to this pudding - The State). Example: Take your car to a high school parking lot and watch the jocks and jailbait drool all over it. Take it to a local mechanic with 3 Sunfires sitting out front and watch him laugh in your face. The school kids probably have no idea what they're looking at but have "heard" about turbos and that pssssshhhh sound. Where as the shop is seeing nothing new. That's the mentality I get from this site. Sure, the kids i.e. noobs will ride your jock about where you got it and how much it cost so they know "how much to save up for" or "what to tell their parents they want for their birthday". The mechanics i.e anyone whose ever really worked on an engine inside-out (not just talking about 6 owners) will congratulate ya on a mod hardly done on an Alero, but in actuality, don't really care. It's been done (to that engine) to death.

If you type "turbo", "boost", or "supercharger" in the SEARCH function, you won't find a whole lot of impactful, substantial threads on the 4. Now.............search for all threads from BlackJack pertaining to his turbo. His threads get more replies and more views than any boost thread on this site. Even funnier, his thread about blowing the cylinder received 121 posts. Some on point, some way off topic, but his engine problems still drew more audience than any boosted 4 thread or any thread about someone's car dying due to performance issues. I think part of that kinda goes back to what i mentioned earlier. Reasoning-wise, if a 6 blows, it's gonna raise eyebrows to what happened. But blow up 4? It's gonna be "Idiot, how the F do you blow up your engine with a pre-tested kit?" And why?? Because people care about the 6. People want to know what he's gonna do to fix it and if it's worth running again. People want to know about the N/A work Jackal and Redog have put into their 6s because building up the 6 is a unique project and there are only a handful of sites you can go to for real info. Anyone with 4 issues, i'd probably direct them to j-body.org simply because they've done it longer and can probably help better than an N-body site IMO.

The worst part is that you own a 6 and dog it the way you do. But hey, you're entitled to your own opinion. For any 4s believing they are above all on the food chain, go ahead and feel real secure knowing boosted 6s are an endangered species and that Grandpa J has done all the hard work for you.

[adam337]

well. since you have upgraded speakers i recently heard that they have cd's out with engine sounds so you could just pop one of those bad boys in

[billytheman1188]

Originally Posted by Bad99Olds

which is why when we refer to the fastest aleros with slips thread the fastest na and the fastest boosted are both 3400s?

i think that proves the point that the 3400 will be faster with the same mods as a 4 cylinder.

[AJules]

Originally Posted by billytheman1188

i think that proves the point that the 3400 will be faster with the same mods as a 4 cylinder.

Consider the prices for the mods for a 3400 vs a 2.4 also

You just bought headers for your 3400 for what? 900 dollars? And now you're trying to have them installed for 750? That's 1650 for some headers.

If you had the 2.4 you would be able to buy and install a header for under 300. And you'd have over 1300 left over to buy other mods.

Spend that 1300 and who's got the faster car now?

Anyway, my point is; A lot of people with the 3400 wish they got one of the 4bangers because they're so much cheaper and easier to mod, and theres so much more stuff out there for them (yeah, a lot of it is because of the J-body crowd). Also a huge factor is the manual transmission that comes with the 4s but not the 3400.

[AJules]

Originally Posted by CiscoPath

And to me, i think the whole "it's less expensive to boost a 4" theory is a huge misconception. The good thing about cookie-cutter kits is that all the kinks and miscalculations have already been worked for you. I'm pretty sure the instructions that come with the kit tell you what "safe" level of boost to run stock, and what parts to upgrade for more. 6s have been playing Russian roulette for years trying to perfect an exact formula, so to protect their investment, they re-inforce every piece of equipment they can. Not the add-ons, but the internals. So once it's all said and done, a boosted 6 more likely runs better and more efficiently than any 4, and if a 4 tries to keep up with that 6, BOOM. General concensus, more expensive. My opinion, more reliable, more efficient.

I have a strange feeling if you told that to SpyHunter, he might disagree...

[billytheman1188]

Originally Posted by AJules

Consider the prices for the mods for a 3400 vs a 2.4 also

You just bought headers for your 3400 for what? 900 dollars? And now you're trying to have them installed for 750? That's 1650 for some headers.

If you had the 2.4 you would be able to buy and install a header for under 300. And you'd have over 1300 left over to buy other mods.

Spend that 1300 and who's got the faster car now?

Anyway, my point is; A lot of people with the 3400 wish they got one of the 4bangers because they're so much cheaper and easier to mod, and theres so much more stuff out there for them (yeah, a lot of it is because of the J-body crowd). Also a huge factor is the manual transmission that comes with the 4s but not the 3400.

manual transmission.....sorry but i dont want a standard. and ive said this before, i will say it again. My 6 cylinder sound 100 times better than any 4 cylinder. The deep sound it makes is amazing I never liked having 4 cylinder cars cause they never have ANY power. So yea, i spend more on mods for my car, but i really dont care

[AJules]

Originally Posted by billytheman1188

manual transmission.....sorry but i dont want a standard. and ive said this before, i will say it again. My 6 cylinder sound 100 times better than any 4 cylinder. The deep sound it makes is amazing

A car with a Manual Transmission will make more power than one with the same engine and an Automatic.

Sounds like to me you don't really want your car to be faster, you just want it to sound faster. If that's the case you should probably have a V8.

Originally Posted by billytheman1188

I never liked having 4 cylinder cars cause they never have ANY power.

not true at all

Audi TT
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
Subaru WRX STI
Chevrolet Cobalt SS
Dodge Neon SRT4

^Cars with 4bangers with more power than a stock v6 Alero, and the list goes on

Originally Posted by billytheman1188

So yea, i spend more on mods for my car, but i really dont care

if it's what you like, go ahead.

[billytheman1188]

Originally Posted by AJules

A car with a Manual Transmission will make more power than one with the same engine and an Automatic.

Sounds like to me you don't really want your car to be faster, you just want it to sound faster. If that's the case you should probably have a V8.



not true at all

Audi TT
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
Subaru WRX STI
Chevrolet Cobalt SS
Dodge Neon SRT4

^Cars with 4bangers with more power than a stock v6 Alero, and the list goes on



if it's what you like, go ahead.

I just prefer automatics over manuals. and why are you bringing up cars that are 25-30k? yea go ahead and spend all that money on a neon or cobalt. LOL. Im not saying the 6 cylinder is faster than every car out there, im just saying it sounds A LOT better than ANY 4 banger..... now are you going to argue with me on that one? i didnt think so

[AJules]

Originally Posted by billytheman1188

I just prefer automatics over manuals. and why are you bringing up cars that are 25-30k? yea go ahead and spend all that money on a neon or cobalt. LOL. Im not saying the 6 cylinder is faster than every car out there, im just saying it sounds A LOT better than ANY 4 banger..... now are you going to argue with me on that one? i didnt think so

you said 4 cylinder cars never have any power, that's just not true.

You also have cars like the Nissan Altima, under 20 grand new, 4 banger with 175 horsepower, about the same as ur alero stock.

and anyway, we can start an argument about what sounds better but it won't go anywhere because I've never heard your car before. What sounds better is a personal preference anyway. I've heard 4 cylinder cars that sound better than some 6 or 8 cylinder cars. You might not think so but who cares. What sounds good is an opinion, everyone has different opinions.

[FrankTheTank]

Originally Posted by billytheman1188

I just prefer automatics over manuals. and why are you bringing up cars that are 25-30k? yea go ahead and spend all that money on a neon or cobalt. LOL. Im not saying the 6 cylinder is faster than every car out there, im just saying it sounds A LOT better than ANY 4 banger..... now are you going to argue with me on that one? i didnt think so

have you actually heard the exhaust on a wrx or srt4? they actually sound quite nice, probably better than your alero does and ever will...

[01silveralero]

Originally Posted by AJules

Consider the prices for the mods for a 3400 vs a 2.4 also

You just bought headers for your 3400 for what? 900 dollars? And now you're trying to have them installed for 750? That's 1650 for some headers.

750 are they using "golden or platinum" exhaust manifold bolts? like seriously its NOT the hardest thing to change headers. sure depending on the car the stud or bolt may snap in the block but it shouldn't be costing up to 10 hours worth of labor.

[billytheman1188]

Originally Posted by FrankTheTank

have you actually heard the exhaust on a wrx or srt4? they actually sound quite nice, probably better than your alero does and ever will...

ive heard the exhaust on an EVO, i forget what kind of aftermarket one he had.... it sounded badass, but didnt have the deep sound...... PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT THE DAMN SRT4.....ITS A NEON. dont compare my car to a effing neon......

[CiscoPath]

Originally Posted by AJules

Anyway, my point is; A lot of people with the 3400 wish they got one of the 4bangers because they're so much cheaper and easier to mod, and theres so much more stuff out there for them (yeah, a lot of it is because of the J-body crowd). Also a huge factor is the manual transmission that comes with the 4s but not the 3400.

OK, i think I see where all this debate is coming from. And i think I can resolve it. We are talking about two completely kind of people here: those that can, and those that can't. Ever notice how marketing is setup for each engine platforms? 4s are aimed at the "first car, sensible, good MPG, HS grad/college fresh, non-sportscar-easily-insurable" demographic. The 6 for the "rental, company-car, grocery getting, family car" demographic. The 8s for those who want bone stock power either for racing or hauling. 6s got the short end of the stick with the FWD. Hey, anyone remember when ALL cars were RWD?? Then we got screwed by all those foreign, point A to point B, gas-saving, more-controllable-in-bad-conditions" FWD 4s which basically killed the muscle car industry (Thanks for that). Then they decided to administer that "adrenaline-numbing" drug to the 6s (again, Thanks).

But the 4s got tired of being picked on, and rose to the challenge. Actually made it to a performance-status surpassing the 6s, with everyone blurting out, "Wow, those little things can go". But let's be real people, who actually "dreams" about owning a 4? If someone's passed on the highway by a SS Cobalt and then by a Mustang (not even boosted), when they're flipping through that Car & Driver mag at your next gas, which car ya think they'll be checking the specs on?

Cheap parts? You have cheap cars. What'd ya expect? Larger aftermarket? Part makers know those "college, part-time working, irresponsible" 4s will skip their rent, short themselves on tuition, short their GFs on the b-days just for that set of Secret Cams to shave a couple of split-seconds off that morning drive to school or while delivering that Dominoes pizza in less that 30 minutes.

Why is there no real aftermarket for the 6s. Mainly because we're all adults. Ya know, "out-of-school, steady income(s), able to get loans, able to pass a credit check" adults. Ya think when guys buy the DHP PowrTuner and the headers, they start to say to themselves "Man, I made a big mistake working on this 6. I'm gonna save my money, buy a 4 and have my neighbor's 16 yr old kid show me what to do". No, because they wanted a project, and though it may take longer, it's the journey that makes it worthwhile. I'm glad that I now have money to blow on my 6 which is why i'm buying that spare engine. May 30th officially made it 8 yrs that i've owned my Alero and the one thing I regret after all that time past is NOT that I didn't get a 4, but that I didn't have the time to really put into Ma Boi Al.

Hey, maybe this is off topic, but how many of you actually "love" your Als? I mean to point of giving it a nickname? I dubbed mine "Ma Boi Al". People don't do that anymore. It's "I'm running S/C this" or "turbo this". No one really cares about their cars anymore. The fact is all you folks repping 4s would toss it at the drop of a hat for an 8 or maybe even a 6 (of another kind of car, that is). Most of you guys have no sense of pride in your car, YOUR car. Only "how can I make this fast without spending too much money?" There is a member on this site who is the epitome of 6 dedication (no not BlackJack). Kwhauck is on his third Alero. He could have gone the easy route two Aleros ago, but he stayed true to what he loved. That's dedication lacking around here these days.

Again, those who can, those who can't. It's like collector model cars. Those that who look for the challenge of putting the pieces together, those that buy it pre-assembled and never take it out the box. Those who have money and time, those who don't. Those that love creating and the challenge, those that don't. Those that actually have pride in their cars, those that don't. Some are wondering what the heck I'm talking about. Wondering why we even bother. Some of us do it strictly for the love of our own cars. Some of us are making a hit list of all the boosted 4s here to someday meet at the track to shut them up, reminding them what they are and where they belong: prey at the bottom of the motor food chain. So keep saying we're wasting our money. We'll keep making our money, keep doing what we're doing, and meet up with ya soon.

Side note: The guy who brought up the point about the Pizza Hut CRX. Do ya really think that B16, B18, H22a, or F22 are super great engines? Uh, could it also have something to do with the fact that most Honda/Acura cars back then weighed 1000 lbs less than your average American made car? Look at it this way, what do you really think you're gonna accomplish at the track with with one of those engines tugging an N-body? And I really wouldn't be surprised if the guy put his last five Pizza Hut checks into his car, and ended up in debt to his eyeballs.

[01silveralero]

im soon to be tackling a project with 3800 supercharged v6 swap........

[CiscoPath]

Originally Posted by AJules

A car with a Manual Transmission will make more power than one with the same engine and an Automatic.

It may stay longer in the RPM band, but it's not making MORE power.

And most people that "hate" the auto 3400 more than likely aren't "missing" the stick. More likely, they've never had one to begin with (or at least never associated it with performance). But then they come on sites like this and start hearing you guys talking about how it's supposed to be so much better. Then mob-mentality kicks in along with all the complaining. The ones with the 6 who aren't complaining may have wanted a stick, but they didn't blindly buy the car. They knew what they were purchasing. And Springs was close to getting that conversion done. But just think if he had. There would be alot less smugness from the stick 4s in posting.

[[ion] C2]

It's not that it makes more power, it's that more power actually gets to the ground..

Man you type a lot Cisco.

[[ion] C2]

Originally Posted by CiscoPath

Example: Take your car to a high school parking lot and watch the jocks and jailbait drool all over it.

ROFL this is true, I visited my old high school one day and I got there as everyone was getting out, and everyone was giving me thumbs up and nodding heartily, everyone loved it.

[kwhauck]

Originally Posted by AJules

A car with a Manual Transmission will make more power than one with the same engine and an Automatic.

Sounds like to me you don't really want your car to be faster, you just want it to sound faster. If that's the case you should probably have a V8.



not true at all

Audi TT
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
Subaru WRX STI
Chevrolet Cobalt SS
Dodge Neon SRT4

^Cars with 4bangers with more power than a stock v6 Alero, and the list goes on

And all of those cars are factory boosted cars.......

and I have never had a cobalt ss keep up with my old supercharger setup..

[Alerosaint]

@cisco...Well Im not trying to get in more 4 is better than your 6 debate or vice versa....but I do own a 4, had it for over 4 years and her name is "Baby" and I know its not as potent as a 6 but I grown attach to my particular car and I wont trade her in for nothing cause been threw so much and had many wild adventures.
Speaking for myself, I just recently modded my car and will be modding it a little more. You can call my mods my gift to her. But my reasons for me doing what I do is to enjoy the ride a bit more of what I already have.I probably can afford to get a 6 in something else but at this point in time why. Im gonna just do what I can do to her and be happy. Im not in to the track scene to much so as far as bragging right concerned its not needed for. I have a boosted 4 and enjoy the little performance i got to make my everday drive with her great to me. And at the end of the day that all thats count. Im happy with my 4 she moves with more authority now so its all good. If i get stomp by a civic or 6 off a light cool, if a stomp them still cool, as long as I am happy and my car is running good. Later Im gonna get an M3 and even when I do decide to purchase that it gonna have to share the space with Baby.

[kwhauck]

Originally Posted by -Alero-

the truth is, and i think you know it.........you could be faster wit hthe ecotec.....especially with the money you have spent

probably, but i haven't spent that much money, with all the parts off my old setup i have just been hitting a zero balance between buying and selling parts........

And back to the whole cookie cutter thing, I like to do custom stuff, and I could do an ecotec swap, as a matter of fact I have an full ecotec on the subframe in the garage with all my parts, i just choose to stick with the 3400, and although j-body guys are doing it, there isn't one decently quick ecotec alero yet........

People can argue all day long, it comes down to what you bought, and if or not you will build it, or if you are persistent enough if you will swap, either way I am sticking with the 3400/5speed setup.....