Solid Motor Mounts

NOTE: Sorry if this discussion appears fragmented, I had to remove a lot of crap, but I don't think I got it all

- Word changes occur like so, [change], and are put there for spelling errors, etc...
- Skipping over parts occur like so, ..., and occur because what was said was irrelevent

I'm adding a ton of power to my engine and a Garrett T3 turbo w/ a custom system set up around it and was wondering if anyone makes solid motor mounts for 2.4 aleros. i've heard that ones from cavis and sunfires don't fit. if there isn't one, is there anyone i could get ahold of to custom make one?

call a machinist, they do things like that for a living, although I doubt you wnat SOLID motor mounts since that would vibrate the hell outta ya

Try to go to a place where they make rubber (look in the yellow pages...) and ask them if they can "fill" the motor mounts with a harder rubber OR replace the rubber in your motor mounts. It may not be cheap, but you will get the [hardness] you are looking for without loosing the absortion capacity... well... not all of it...

...i'm going to be running 20 psi daily and around 35 psi for the track. that's why i need new motor and tranny mounts. [] i don't want to break poop. and i'm not sure if its going to be turbo or s/c. i talked a friend of mine who's taking a high-performance automotive class at northwestern and he said that unless i have a manual, a turbo is the worst thing i could do to my car because i will get no power in my launch unless i get a ... turbo that spools at 2500 rpm. so i'm giving some serious thought to getting a supercharger[. ]but again, that won't be until i get EVERYTHING else taken care of [] including my tranny. i'll make a different post but is there anything to do to upgrade the amount of power our trannys can take? i heard the 4T40E can only handle around 200 hp and 200 ft/lbs of torque. i'm going to be running about 350 or 400hp when all is said and done. but thanks for the info guys.

forget rubber, get urethane (sp)

As for a turbo, remember stock the 2.4 redline's at ~6G so spooling at 2500 aint that bad, If you want to do everything right go to [ httyp://www.turbonetics.com ] and see what kinda turbo they reccommend, they have a form you fill out and submit and it takes almost every variable into account and based on that they reccommend a turbo for you. ...if you're not sure what form of FI ur gonna go with, ... then I think you need to hit the books, esp for that kinda boost cuz you are bound to start blowing poop, esp if you aint done this before.

As for the tranny some folks were working on getting kevlar clutch paks made that would substantally increase the amount of TQ ur tranny can accept. If you want to run with the big dogs you need an Manny though

You're going to run 35 psi through a 2.4L huh?

...hope you have a lot of racing gas....

Even if you did pay the massive amounts of cash you'd need for things such as titanium rods and very high quality forged aluminum pistons and a forged steel crank etc etc... the head bolt design on these engines probably isnt enough to contain that much cylinder pressure reliably, you'd crack the head pretty quickly, also, the mains on these blocks werent designed for that sort of pressure and I'm sure you'd blow the bottom end all to bunny too... shoot for something more realistic, as engines that were even designed with turbocharging in mind (Mitsubishi's 2.0L inline 4, Subaru's flat 4) couldnt run that kind of pressure for very long...

Oh, also... if you could afford a setup that could reliably handle even 20psi, you could afford to buy a getrag 5-speed manual tranny and have it re-built to handle ~400hp, besides if you want to "race" this car like you say you do (at 35psi, remember?) then surely you'd know you'll want a manual transmission...

ALSO ALSO, I dont think you'll ever find a supercharger that can push 20psi and fit under the hood of our cars at the same time, as it must be mounted up in front of the engine, that really restricts you in how big of a supercharger you can install, not to mention a supercharger pushing 20psi would cause a sickening parasitic loss to the engine, you definately want to turbocharge your car... Oh, and good luck!

money is no object...and if you're buying into that whole "the fast and the furious" brainwashing that says "you've got to have a manual to run 10s", you're dead wrong. all pro drag cars have automatics. manuals are a thing of the past. i know a place where i can take my car and have them put in a new computer with variable shift points which means that depending on what setting i have my computer on, it will shift more aggressively or more comfortably. Fast, thanks for the info on the urethane filled stock mounts and the kevlar clutch packs. the problem with getting a turbo that spools at 2500 rpm is the fact that it won't create as much power as i want it to. thanks to gm, our cars bomb out if you rev it up to high right before a launch. if i want a turbo to make massive power, it's going to have massive lag. that's the problem with turbos. Final, I already have a new head, new pistons, new rods, a new crank, and new cams being made. My friend's dad owns a shop that is a direct supplier for DART and he have a ton of techs that know me well enough to do this for very very cheap. Hell, they built his son a street legal 2002 Camaro SS that runs an 8.64 for his 17th birthday.

the whole fast and furious stuff is not "brainwashing", manuals put more power to the ground, period. But the big dogs, running 4's have a direct drive setup, I cant really explain how it works right now but it is a direct drive, hang out with some NHRA guys for awhile and they can explain it to ya

If your running a stock tranny with that much boost you need to get a new one. The 4T40 Just will not take that much power w/o serious upgrades that would just cost more than a new tranny. Im partial to the getrag 282 b/c it will take 300+HP if ur nice to it (and im partial to manuals). If money is no object then just get twin turbos and get great response across the (relatively small) full engine range. Of course if you are going all out on the head you should have no problem bringing redline to about 8-9G. Im not sure what you mean by the engine boming out if you rev B4 launch? (you turn the trac off?) I've never had this problem

Id be interested to know what kinda CR you are planning on running and where you got ur parts; all custom or off the shelf, some of us may be looking for some before long Also any pics of your setup?

you might be surprised to find out, then, that the computer in your car already shifts harder when you're accelerating more aggressivly and softer when it granny shifts at 2500rpm

And when I said you'd want a manual transmission, it's because I assume it wasnt for the drag strip only, and you'd want to drive it on the street, or possibly a road course, where a manual is king, especially since any "racing" engine makes no low-end power and a manual is basically required to keep it driveable

If you're simply interested in drag racing, then yes of course an automatic is the best for more consistent times, but you'll need a high-RPM stall because if, like you already said, you're building a purely racing engine then it will make no power below 3500rpm anyways... do you intend to drive this on the street?

Also, I'm going to call bullpoop on your 'new head being made', and I would like to inquire about where you're getting new cam blanks for the 2.4, I'd like to get a set of those myself...

And it's great that your friends dad owns a shop that carries DART prodcuts... ... they make good cylinder heads for chevy small blocks.....

................

Oh, also eddie, they run a direct-drive setup because it's easier than trying to build a transmission that can hold ~8000hp

Just FYI, final I believe manta and GM will both sell you cam blanks. btu I'd have to look around again (oh yeah you'd have to talk to manta cuz those are NOT on their site.

...you ever seen an alero run low to mid 12s or 13s? no, because no one wants to invest the time and money it will take to get it done. i'm willing to because i want to be different ..........

fast, do you mean the fwd transverse transaxle type 287?

Different is good, its just not the most cost effective way to do it......
Trust me. I've taken a v6 Firebird pos to a 400hp show car. It wasn't easy or cheap......

...... What about the block? Even Supra TTs can't handle 2.5 bar.....

good luck there are a bunch of crazy ass J-body people doing crazy ass things to their motors are are only running about 300whp!!!

in my opionion talk is talk, i've taken a 2.4TC head apart and seen that they require a whole lotta work to get sufficient air flow thru them! I'm, running a turbo setup on my carright now and let me tell you this poop ain't cheap and isn't that easy!

..........

Yeah, even rode in John's car

No, I mean the getrag 282/NVT-555 that came in the ~90-93 Q4 HOs. a handful and i do mean a handful, came with LSD, according to legend.
I can believe what nguyen is saying about the heads; I would suggest getting an 086 head, they flow way better, but require major mods.
As for ur original deliema get a small turbo to power the shizzle until a big azz S/C can kick in

Aint those alum, whereas the 2.4 is a cast block?? A cast block with alot of extra material between cylinders? I think the problem the J-guys are having is not with the block, but with the internals not holding up; that's why I want to know where he got his guts, so to speak.

No poop, like I said, I know the why and how I jsut didn't want to explain it after getting home from the club last night

go to [ http://www.getrag.com ] and take a look. the 282 isn't listed but the fwd transverse transaxle 287 is. which one would be better? i don't know a ton about trannys so what does LSD mean? who can i get in touch with about an 086 head? who makes it, how much does it cost, is it compatible with the 2.4? sorry if this seems like too many questions but it's great to know that people out there are supportive of what i'm trying to do here. thanks again, fast. oldsman, sorry about that. i realize now that not everyone is going to be supportive of what i'm trying to do. for those that do believe that it can be done, thanks and you will not be disappointed.

evil, the 282 holds more power but is from the older quads, not currently in production, so it won't show on getrag's site. Hell from the looks of it you may wnat to try the 288 from a PT cruiser/neon, but more than likely you will need to do something since I bet the bellhousings will not match up.

LSD, is limited slip differential in this case

The 086 head is also from the older quads, it was made by GM and it is not a direct bolt on but it sounds like you have the resources to get it modded on, check the quad forum in yahoo groups there is an article in the archive about how to do it, although its kinda mis leading in how simplistic it is to do. Also check out the forum itself im sure somebody one there has at least tried it.
Just head to the junk yard and find your self a 90-94 quad four with and A in the 8th digit of the vin and start pulling parts.

Once again I gotta ask where did you get ur pistons, sleeves, crank etc? I give you info give a little back

call rksport 1-800 # and as them for the grand am mounts
they have them in there catalog but not on the site.
motor mounts 99-02 grand am

LSD = Limited Slip Diff. - Pretty much when you have a Sh#t load of power, an you put the power down, with the LSD both wheels would turn equally = better traction. If you didn't have it, you be doing one-wheeled burnouts all day long!

As for the 086 heads, its off the older HO 2.3 motors, putting one on a 2.4 requires a good amount of work, i dunno the exact details but its a pain from what i've been told. Then you have to also deal with the ECU. There is a shop down the street from me doing the 086 head on a 2.4 Cavalier, he had to do so much work and is using a TEC3 for control. Anywho, if you serious i would do a search on the Jbody.org

Plus, after you do all the machine work on that 086 head (have to port the cooling passages so they match up better to the newer 2.4L block), it'll just crack after a couple thousand miles anyways... one of the reasons they had so many different versions of the 2.3L head is because they couldnt build them reliably, they would crack easily, and the 086 head, which flowed the best, also cracked the most often...

actaully the reason the original Q4 heads warped and cracked so often was the poopty head gasket GM threw in there, um hello alum head on cast block + poopy gasket = warps. The other thing that prevents this from happening is letting the car engine/head warm up before reacing the engine. Swap that out with a good fel pro gasket and the problem is avoided 100% of the time. As for different versions of thee had I can only think of three

I have not seen a whole lot of info about the 086 swap on JBO (not that I've been looking), but lots on the quad forum.

If ur really interested in getting one I can see if the A vin GAat the JY has an 086 head, lemme know.

Native - i've already purchased teh RkSport motor mounts for the Grandam/ALeros, there not the right ones! I ended up giving i to my cousin with a Cavalier! I called and they said it would work that was the only reason i bought them, total B.S.!

well i guess not then. whew i was just about to buy some too.
thanx

[Oldsman]

according to high rev motorsports they have mounts for the grand am and alero but i am waiting on confirmation from a friend how bought them to see if they really do fit.

But right now the best choice is to go to j-body.org and talk to mark paine

[Fast Eddie]

hmmmm mounts or pulleys, next???

I think I may wait til the new clutch to replace the mounts, in the name of ease h34r:

[Oldsman]

that one is up to you. I am doing pulley next. I would hold off on the mounts til there is confirmation that they actually work or unless you contact mark and send him some new ones for him to make them with the urethane

I'd try and get some urethane mounts soon if you have a header and no flex pipe because you'll ruin the thing...

[Fast Eddie]

If you have a header, trust me get a flex pipe. motor mounts ain't enough h34r:

heheh speaking from experience eddie?