Electric Powered Supercharger

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by bigd6983@Nov 23 2004, 10:18 PM
so what ur saying is i can slam on the throttle for 10 seconds or whatever it need be, let off and let it automatically be recharged while i do some more normal driving?

yes. auto on, auto off. auto charge. it's maint. free once it's installed. and aside from adding power wires and a few switches, the only real electrical system modifications is an upgraded alternator, for quicker recharge.

Originally posted by FormulaNERD@Nov 23 2004, 09:19 PM
my buddy has an 01 regal gs, supercharged. the boost gauge stays at ZERO unless it's around 80%+ throttle.

this system can mimick that completely. i just dont understand what you're saying.

meaning if i am full throttling it, hafta let off, full throttle some more and all of a sudden my batteries are drained and need to be recharged, id be kinda irritated......

but like i asked, say i full throttle for 10 seconds and let off, during the period between the next time i go full throttle is it recharging?? even when im going 1/4-1/2 throttle??

[FormulaNERD]

he really needs to show up. i'm acting like the resident expert here when i've just researched it for a few days.

all my facts and projections come from his website, and 4 or 5 forums he has explained in. many skeptics... 3.8 mustang forums, hyundai, taurus... etc.

i dunno, coming from a person whos running a lot of accessories, the upgraded alternator would be a must in my situation.......

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by bigd6983+Nov 23 2004, 10:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bigd6983 @ Nov 23 2004, 10:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FormulaNERD@Nov 23 2004, 09:19 PM
my buddy has an 01 regal gs, supercharged. the boost gauge stays at ZERO unless it's around 80%+ throttle.

this system can mimick that completely. i just dont understand what you're saying.

meaning if i am full throttling it, hafta let off, full throttle some more and all of a sudden my batteries are drained and need to be recharged, id be kinda irritated......

but like i asked, say i full throttle for 10 seconds and let off, during the period between the next time i go full throttle is it recharging?? even when im going 1/4-1/2 throttle?? [/b][/quote]
yes. any time you're not pushing the button, or at WOT, or at whatever you set it up at, it is recharging.

depending on the battery it could take a few min or a few seconds to completely recharge. he said acheiving a recharge rate of 1:1 is possible, but a simple setup with 180a alternator and a few batteries gives like 15:1, so that's what 400 seconds to recharge? about 2.5 min.

his neon drag car has a 305amp alternator i believe, and he has a "friend" in the alternator biz... i know that they dont just make 305's for neons, so i'm curious how it got it, and what it was originally for.

yea im with ya formula........i dont expect all the answers from you........i know what ive read and what i understand about electronics and how crap works.......but if ur backing this so much i guess i expect u 2 b able 2 answer it all.........

and can you imagine what a custom 305 amp alternator would cost, plus the wiring you would hafta do for that thing.......

and 400 seconds is more like almost 7 minutes, 7 minutes to charge something that only lasts 15 seconds......

that more and more pushes me to believing its application is fitted for drag racing......

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by bigd6983+Nov 23 2004, 10:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bigd6983 @ Nov 23 2004, 10:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FormulaNERD@Nov 23 2004, 09:11 PM
i agree... in some ways.

i dont mind the batteries if the overall cost is cheaper than RSM and i'm looking at 313 HP at 6psi, without worrying about upgrading internals.

and an automatic engagement at WOT, or even 75% (normal superchargers are the same way)

also IN THEORY, the same supercharger, running on a belt, at the same specs with the same mods and psi will only get you 275hp

and like ive said earlier 313 horses is way too much to be pulling out of those stock internals and tranny.......remember my idea is keeping this daily driver material.......given im a 1/4-1/2 throttle type of guy on a normal day, but sometimes ill go 3/4 just when i feel like feeling the accelleration........that much hp is eventually going to cause problems somewhere........maybe not 2 months, maybe not 6 months, maybe not a year.........but eventually and i plan on having my car for as long as it will hold out...... [/b][/quote]
well the 313 is starting with 185hp base, which i estimated from the 3.4 with headers, cai, and exhaust. and at 6psi.

at 5psi, no headers, you're lookin at 240hp... about the perfect amount you're looking for. the stock internals and tranny will run great on 5psi and 240 hp

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by bigd6983@Nov 23 2004, 10:33 PM
yea im with ya formula........i dont expect all the answers from you........i know what ive read and what i understand about electronics and how crap works.......but if ur backing this so much i guess i expect u 2 b able 2 answer it all.........

and can you imagine what a custom 305 amp alternator would cost, plus the wiring you would hafta do for that thing.......

and 400 seconds is more like almost 7 minutes, 7 minutes to charge something that only lasts 15 seconds......

that more and more pushes me to believing its application is fitted for drag racing......

sorry i lied. here is a quote from geoff

"That means if a 200 amp alternator is added, and 40 amps are used for the typical AC, stereo, wipers, lights, etc the 160 left over at 80% would give 120 amps to charge the batteries. The ESC draws 1200 amps, so that is a 10:1 ratio. If I make one 15 sec run, then I need 15 x 10 = 150 seconds or 2.5 minutes to recharge it. And if no accessories are parasitic at that time then the rate is even better. "

[FormulaNERD]

another good bit of info....

"Also, as for non-parasitic during boost, the alternator must NEVER be charging the batteries during the ESC operation. That could draw so much current as to catch the alternator on fire. I use a SPDT switch (single pole double throw) so one side is boost and the other side is charging. I prefer that you are sceptical, because that will make you examine it better. All of the customers who have been given a ride in my car come back with a huge grin on their faces because they doubted and then had their heads snapped back :-) Any novel idea is usually met with scepticism. I encourage it. Even the US & International Patent Offices were dumbfounded in that over the last 110 years since patents have been recorder worldwide not a single other person has made one like mine. They allowed the patent on the first inspection--this is NEVER done. It was simply not thought of before. Imagine this: 2006--42 volt systems are standard. 40,000 watt superchargers making 15 psi on factory cars for short bursts are standard. Think not? Visteon (5th largest company in the world) has been trying to do this for the last six years with little success. They could only get a centrifugal design drawing 2500 watts and 50,000 rpm from a brushless motor which worked well on a 1.1 liter motor. It made 4 psi. Mine has made over 25 psi with 36V and special motors. I am just a small one-man business. What could a large company do with my design? We may see fairly soon."

[FormulaNERD]

also i read somewhere that you could take a hybrid car like the insight, add this supercharger, and use the electric part of the hybrid to power the ESC. now that would be cool

Originally posted by FormulaNERD@Nov 23 2004, 09:44 PM

sorry i lied. here is a quote from geoff

"That means if a 200 amp alternator is added, and 40 amps are used for the typical AC, stereo, wipers, lights, etc the 160 left over at 80% would give 120 amps to charge the batteries. The ESC draws 1200 amps, so that is a 10:1 ratio. If I make one 15 sec run, then I need 15 x 10 = 150 seconds or 2.5 minutes to recharge it. And if no accessories are parasitic at that time then the rate is even better. "

whats the largest alternator available and mind you he said typical, i dunno about your car but im runnin a lot of extra lighting, my 400 watt inverter, my sound system that pulls maybe 70 amps rms not max......the alternator would be a must and the fact you gotta wait 2 1/2 minutes before you can go again sucks.......thats a lot of down time and thats based on the facts your electrical system is almost devoted intirely to the esc, but in reality that just aint likely......

Originally posted by FormulaNERD@Nov 23 2004, 09:50 PM
also i read somewhere that you could take a hybrid car like the insight, add this supercharger, and use the electric part of the hybrid to power the ESC. now that would be cool

yea that would be ideal......

[FormulaNERD]

you're completely right.... and he simply states that if it isnt for you... then you should go another route.

he also says that if there are currently kits (turbo or sc) at decent prices (i.e honda, acura, etc) then this probably isnt for you.

i'm not gonna sit here and convince you because i myself am not convinced, even though i want it primarily for track use.

personally i'd be happy with a 5 min recharge rate. i dont go WOT at a stoplight, and rarely on the freeway.

the fact of the matter is that in the import market 90% of the performance products are geared toward straight line racing.

guess you will just hafta take a ride in that nissan to be convinced lol.........im thinkin maybe a turbo is more what i need......i dont want immediate boost at full throttle right off the line, i need something that will create boost at mid-high rpms......this prolly is more what i need........

but id like 2 see this tried out formula, i wish i could go for a ride in that nissan, nothing is better than being in a boosted car, boosted from factory is different than a custom set up, my friends 90 4 door civic was boosted, it just seemed so quick and the sound was amazing......

[FormulaNERD]

ok, before i post these, i want to state that he's built turbo systems since 1972, so he has every right to "bash" turbo setups. and these are all his opinions.

"Why don't you offer turbochargers anymore?

Turbochargers have a 16% failure rate per year. The average turbo lifespan is 13 months. Many of our customers had to replace their entire cartridge once or twice a year. BB turbos—ceramic or not—have an even higher failure rate. In contrast, the Eaton supercharger at the core of our designs averages 150,000 miles between overhauls."

yea but that depends on how you run it, i wont be runnin too much boost so it wont have to run as hard, ill make sure i research everything i can before i figure out what im gonna do and how i can keep the turbo efficient as possible.......cars come stock turbo......and they can pull it off, aslong as you keep things within a limit, you can have turbo fun.......

[FormulaNERD]

yea, you're completely right....


but lets keep this on topic, it'll be easier to discuss that way.

now i'm waiting for some people with real s/c knowledge to pick geoff's brain.... i'm also gonna email geoff, because he's taking too long. lol

[FormulaNERD]

i emailed him and already got a reply... i also mentioned the rsm setup...

"HERE IS THE LATEST INFO ON THE ESC SUPERCHARGERS. I COULD ALSO LOOOK INTO A BELT DRIVEN SC. I DESIGN THEM AS WELL, AND FOR A LOT LESS THAN $4500(AFTER INSTALL). I DID A 2005 TBIRD FOR BEVERLY HILLS FORD AND THE CAR TV SHOW 'PIMPO MY RIDE', SO HERE ARE PICS OF ALL THE NEWEST KITS:
HERE ARE SOME PICS AND INFO ON THE NEWEST DESIGN"

I'd like to see where he gets his numbers for turbo failures. Other than based on his experience. Give me tangible proof or facts. Hell, I can tell you that electric supercharges failure at the rate of 43% or every other month. :rolleyes:

Some other things I take issue to with this thing:

"Odyssey 680 high-CCA batteries"
"They weigh only 13 lbs each."

Try 15.4-lbs each (per the battery manufactures site) x 4 = 61.6-lbs. The ones pictured (PC545) are 12.0-lbs each and there are 6 of those at 72-lbs. This is just battery weight you have added so far. Now add in the "42-lbs" if it is really 42 not sure of how they do their math, add in another 10-lbs for wiring, boxes, holddowns, etc. Now your looking at 113-123 extra pounds, its getting kinda heavy in here. Not the "That's 94 lb in total" that they state.

"a full turbo kit can easily weigh 90-100lb" Wow really? Must be that funny math thing again. Must be one helluva turbo!

"The emergence of lightweight and powerful batteries like the Odyssey units used here also made energizing the blower and packaging the system feasible." Wow I didn't know motorcycle batteries, which is what they are, have recently emerged? What did motorcycle's start with before? Oh yeah, kickstarts that went out in the sixties. Wonder what was used between then and these "new" batteries.

Now I'm not saying this doesn't work. But it does appear to me the information on there site is also not entirely accurate. If just simple adding weights of things are off, what else is off or not accurate? Power figures? I also think I could spend $1000 somewhere else and get something not so questionable for a 15-second burst.

Meant to post this up about 2.5-hrs ago, bad weather moving through shut power off till now.

[FormulaNERD]

ok so yea.... the batteries in the pic are 12lbs each X 6 - 35 (using two of the six to replace the stock battery) and you have 37lbs, 10 for cables, 42 for s/c.... 89lbs total. and you have a fairly even distrobution of the added weight.

good questions, questions i'd also like answered, hopefully he shows up.