Turbo Or Not To Turbo

ok, i have been wanting to do engine mods for a while now and everytime i start thinking about it i change my mind. i know that once i start i will have to complete it but what i want to know is if i should turbo or supercharge. i think really what i'm wanting to know is, where do i need to start, what should i do first. i have access to engine parts because i work at a speed shop but i want some help. i want someone to take me under their wing and discuss different possiblities with me and guide me along the way. if anyone is willing to help me with the process and where to find the parts it will be greatly appreciated. honestly my goal is to have a 14 second or quicker alero. well anyways if you wanna help please pm me or email me or just respond to this post. please help.

[SilverBullet256]

ok, first off, dont do super charger if you really wanna tweak it out a turbo is alot easier to tweak power out of second dont buy a kit build one yourself buy the turbo, the wastegate, BOV, intercooler and intake piping yourself and then have germ make you a set of turbo headers that he makes then all you will have to do is geta custom pcm tune as for turbo size you dont wnat a trim smaller than 50 at least wastegates, BOV's and intercoolers are all a matter of oppinion there are some good ones out there but it matters on what you yourself want as for what brand of turbo garret is a good brand to go with but basically all turo companies use the same specs on the turbo itself so that doesnt really matter if you need any other help them tell me

[Vtolds]

I would supercharge, the last time I looked Aleromods fastest member has a Supercharger not a turbo.

everyone is going to have their own opion do what you want or think is best me i would go supercharged but germ will disagree. there are advantages and disadvantages to both. it is going to just boil down to cost and difficulty of installation

actually SC/Alero, im not going to disagree OR agree with anyone.


wow you say??? here is why i wont agree or disagree.

his goal is 14sec's or faster right? both options will take you where you want to go. so neither choice is bad.

you need to ask as yourself first, "what do I want".

i have MY personal opinion and thats why i choose what i chose. SC/Alero, you have your opinion and did what you did.

both are fast and quick and both will give you fast than 14's in your alero.

question you really need to ask yourself, how envolved do you want to be in working on this. once you get a super charger or turbo charger on your car, its not instantly going to be rainbows and sunshine. your car will need to be tweaked and things will need to be done to keep it running. everytime you add something like boost, your going to have an ongoing project. dont think your just going to put it on and have fun forever.

Originally posted by VTOLDS@Apr 3 2005, 11:12 PM
I would supercharge, the last time I looked Aleromods fastest member has a Supercharger not a turbo.

Quoted post

and generally the fastest 3400's are turbo'd.


how many completed Turbo Alero 3400's are there?

Originally posted by germ@Apr 4 2005, 05:48 AM
actually SC/Alero, im not going to disagree OR agree with anyone.


wow you say??? here is why i wont agree or disagree.

his goal is 14sec's or faster right? both options will take you where you want to go. so neither choice is bad.

you need to ask as yourself first, "what do I want".

i have MY personal opinion and thats why i choose what i chose. SC/Alero, you have your opinion and did what you did.

both are fast and quick and both will give you fast than 14's in your alero.

question you really need to ask yourself, how envolved do you want to be in working on this. once you get a super charger or turbo charger on your car, its not instantly going to be rainbows and sunshine. your car will need to be tweaked and things will need to be done to keep it running. everytime you add something like boost, your going to have an ongoing project. dont think your just going to put it on and have fun forever.

Quoted post

i totaly agree very well put germ.

everyone is going to have an opinon and like grem said "how much work do you want to do?"
and like i said how much do you want to spend to make a 14 sec car

The easiest way to make power out of a GM 3800 is a turbo. I would assume it would apply to the 3400 as well. Guys will slap a turbo on an almost stock grand prix gt, and will just about have an 11second car. Turbos can make more power then a supercharger when all things are the same. Ofcourse, a CSC is better then a roots blower but still does not seem to stand up to a turbo.

I am no expert but this is the common consensus over at clubgp.com

generally speaking a turbo will produce higher output.

but if there is a goal set, which his is 14sec or faster, then either setup will suffice honestly.

but if you ever want to go faster, you have to look at the limitations of each setup to determine the route you wish to go.

if your goals are 14's or 13's, then a S/C or turbo will be fine. but if your goal is 11's or 12's, most likely your best choice will be a turbo.

unfortuneately, i dont see the M62 or the RSM CSC superchargers pulling 12's due to their limited output. however, if you were to fabricate a different roots or CSC supercharger, then that would change things. but as far as i know, there are no other options for superchargers and the 3400.


but if 14's are your goal, either setup will work.

[kwhauck]

hmmmm..........let me think for a second.............TURBO!!!!!!!

[-Alero-]

with a super, you have instantanious power, and it actually takes power to make power, like there is a big parasite on your car.

a turbo may take an extra second or 2, but gives you the power you want. the problem with turbos is that they involve exhaust and a whole lot of cooling. and i dotn know much about supers....thats all i got... i mkinda tired

ok well i would love to go faster than fourteens that was just where i set my goal. but i know that once i get to 14s i will want to go faster. i think i am going to want to go turbo but what i want to know is, what kind of internal work do i need done and where can i get some stuff. i know that i can have custom pistons made but i need to know what to do about the rest of it. can i get rods, cam, crank, and all the other stuff or do i even need to change my crank. i know i will need low compression pistons. that is the one thing i have learned while working at a speed shop. i wish i could get comp to make me a cam, they are located here in memphis so i might just need to call them and see what i can do. now if i get a turbo, what about nitrous. should i just leave that alone or should i go with a zex kit, which in my opinion is the best fuel injection system out there. i just need some help with all this. i have done alot of research with like ported heads and ported manifolds and headers and exhaust but i have never really done any real research on internals. someone please help. thanks.

i like turbos so say i aquired a turbo t3/t4e what do i need to buy in addition to it?

a turbo setup requires no additional work to the engine if you stay under 10psi. and the only thing i would do for 10-15psi is to replace the head gaskets with new GM head gaskets, resurface the heads, and put on new head bolts, replace the intake gaskets, and bigger fuel injectors.

[Fast Eddie]

You work in a speed shop? why not ask some of the folks that work there? The can explain and SHOW you how things work alot better than people typing things on the internet. Best way to learn is to get your hands dirty and you happen to work in the right place to gain a world of knowledge.

speed shop = Pep Boys


lol, just joking man.


besides the fact that most "speed shops" wont know about the engine, they wont want to take the chance of doing something to an engine they dont know about. ive come to find out that the dealer doesnt know much about these engines either, other than knowing that coolant leaks are the LIM gaskets 99% of the time and will charge you $1000 to do it. thats about as far as most dealers knowledge go.

so doing the work yourself, is probably a good thing, plus knowing that YOU did the work makes you feel good and gives you a sense of accomplishment.

[Fast Eddie]

engines is engines, same principles apply to a 1.6L honda or a 502 big block. Fuel and and air go in, poison somes out (sorta) Any decent mechanic can explain how what engine parts do, and if not find one who can, correct me if I'm wrong but the 3400 uses pushrod technology, that's been around longer than a lot of us have, so its not some super secret highly advanced piece of technology. Any decent speed shop should have somebody on staff that can explain the basics (and hopefully some of the more advanced features) of forced induction, beit super or turbo charging.

As for where to find parts check out the upgrades portion of this site. If you are looking for more specific parts post up what you are looking for.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, its just that a books have been written on this subject (forced induction) and there are tons of different ways to go, so its kinda difficult to give good advice in this media given that there are tons of different ways he could go and lots of info available. For my money talking to people in a position to actually show what is going on is the best way to learn.

basics, yes, all shops that deal with engines SHOULD have the general knowledge.

but knowing the specifics of the engine and what it can handle is entirely a different ball game.

speed shops dont like dealing with "non performance" engines, and a 3400 is not a performance engine. and the shops that deal with the Honda engines know the specifics of that engine and what it can do.

and if a speed shop doesnt know about the engine, they will most likely want to do things to it that are un needed and will set you back a LOT of money for things you dont need, just so they can cover their ass.

would you take your car to someone that doesnt know it very well to fix it? now would you take that same situation of someone not knowing about your engine and putting a turbo kit on it? a PERFECT example of this is ITS. they decided they wanted to put a couple turbo setups on 3x00's. they didnt know the engine well and WAS considered a decent shop.

lets just say they have blown up a couple engines and sent a couple cars home from the shop on flat beds because they couldnt finish the project.

but hey, if you trust your speed shop, by all means, do as you wish.

if he thinks he can get better knowledge online here, chances are hes already asked them at the speed shop...

well the thing is that the two other guys that work with me, one has a old a$$ vw, which i love vws but he is an idiot, and the other one has a 91 talon all wheel drive turbo and when i try to talk to him about it he asks the same question everyone else asks, why are you trying to make an alero fast, it cant be done. so i just laugh him off. dont get me wrong he is a great guy and really cool to hang out with but he thinks that i am just trying to be a "ricer" because i am in a car club with an alero. people in my city are just really weird about what they think has power and what they think dont. its hard for me to get respect at my shop from customers when i am talking about parts with them and they ask what i have and i tell them and they kinda look at me like, did i hear you right, you have an alero. but the main reason i wanted to know about internals is that ever since i changed my gaskets there has been a slight tick in the lower part of the engine and i thought that before i did anything else to the engine that i should get that fixed and i wanted to do it myself. i hate taking my car to a mechanic when i dont know anyone here in memphis that i would trust to work on my alero and secondly i can get friend in my club to help me with the engine work. i just want to go to the track one night during test and tune and just lay down a 13 in the alero and have people go wow!!! i mean that makes it sound like i'm doing it for them but i'm not i just hate when people say "that cant go fast". well anyways i appreciate all the advice.


so bigger injectors, from where and what do they usually run price wise? i just want to get this thing going.