automatic verses manual

i have an automatic alero and it is very fast but some poeple say its not worth to put alot of money in an automatic so i was wondering if you think that manuals are faster and should hook those up and not automatic because you probaly won't get much respect at a track with an automatic.

You have to be a really good driver with a manual to beat an auto. The only real disadvantage is the weight of the auto.

[johny_boy32]

but manuals are faster and you can do more with their transmission if i'm not mistaken

I don't know if I am right but if you know how to drive a manual....manual trans last alot longer if you don't strip the gears.

Manuals aren't faster in and of themselves. If you're smarter than the computer in an auto, then you as a driver of a manual could beat an auto.

Manuals are built a little tougher, since people tend to abuse them, or just be bad drivers. They're easier to work on, since they're simpler mechanically also. If that's what you mean by 'do more to them,' then I guess you could, as far as hardware goes.

Autos protect themselves, they have abuse-protects that won't let you hurt them. Ever notice you can pull it down to 1L at 70mph, but you won't get the actual shift to 1st until 29mph? And you wouldn't believe what you can do with an auto with a calibration. It's just a lot harder to put together and get the tools to do than upgrade a clutch in a manual.

So, manual is easier for Joe to work on in his garage, cheaper to upgrade. Auto has way more potential, but is more complicated and expensive.

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

for road racing (like on a twisty course) Manuals have an advantage with the handling. It's easier to maintain speed through a turn with higher rpms, so downshifting with mild breaking helps a lot better than slamming on the brakes for the turn. Plus, the rpms are high coming out of the turn, and ready for an upshift, so acceleration down the next straight is easier. (I've figured this out playing GT3, not from real driving experience. I never really drove a stick before)

But for drags, auto takes all the thinking out for you. Just pedal to the metal.

Uhm, the 5 speed has the advantage of an extra cog. It has closer ratios, which means the engine is in it's powerband more often. THATS one of its primary advantages.

Originally posted by Final-Reality@Mar 30 2004, 01:02 PM
Uhm, the 5 speed has the advantage of an extra cog. It has closer ratios, which means the engine is in it's powerband more often. THATS one of its primary advantages.

Sorry but that one doesn't make sense, because you have removed the Torque Converter from the equation. with tthat manual, that can be a huge asset in the fact of it's ability to multiply engine torque. So just having an extra gear doesn't automaticaly make it better, you have to consider everything.

No no, you don't know what you're talking about. The closer gear ratios automatically mean it's better. A torque convertor doesnt multiply engine torque, the gears do, big shooter. And a torque convertor is far heavier than a clutch, which is another disadvantage. :rolleyes:

WTF, Final, who pissed in your corn flakes lately.

As far as the road racing comments. If you know your auto transmission, you can keep it in the power band with no problem. I have had no prob beating manuals that are similar in power / weight.

[Oldsman]

the normal rule is manuals are quicker but autos are more consistant.

an auto can handle just as much power but coasts some money.

with an auto you don't have to worry about burning up your clutch.

Final is right though. If you look at the gear ratios of a manual. only when the transmission gear ratio is 1:1 is the actual gear ratio that of the rear end. so if you actually figured out what the actual gear ratio is for each gear you will see that the manual will launch hard and stay in mid to high range of powerband.

A torque convertor does help to make things even but comparing stock to stock, the factory stall speed isn't enough to make up for it.

far as shifting a manual to beat an auto..............LOL. if you really, REALLY know how to shift you can get a manual to shift as fast as an auto that has shift kit. But then you take the chance of missing a gear.

oldsman has it right

i'll add one thing. in 2 cars with the same engines, the one with a manual will have more effective hp at the wheels than an auto.

3.4Alero, the reason you don't notice your car dropping out of the power band is because you have the V6, with a much more broad torque curve than the 2.4 or ECOTEC, which generally have a peakier power band. Simply put, the 3400 stays in it's fat torque curve with just 4 gears, where as with the 4-cylinders it's easier to notice the difference between the 4 and 5-speeds because of their narrower powerbands.

[Fast Eddie]

1. Ok no matter what tranny engine you have it tops out at 108.

2. The manual puts more power down than the auto due to the parasitic torque convertor.

3. An automatic is more consistant in a drag race due to the torque convertor.

4. In a road (or any other) race you NEVER use tranny to slow down the car. You want to break hard into the corners to get the weight over the front tires. What I do Is try and match the engine speed to the wheel speed then let the clutch out. IE brake hard start turn, clutch in, rev engine to 4K rpms, hit apex, let clutch out, get on gas hard and pull through curve into straight away.

5. the 3.4 stock has a TQ curve like this ---------------- so its not too hard to stay in it.

6. Not sure what the gearing is like in the auto so I can't speak to that.

7. I have never ever needed to get into 5th gear in a race. Fourth will run all the way up to 108, not that i've ever hit it, so no need to go to fifth. Yes, it may be near red line but I would bet you have a turn coming up and need to downshift anyways.

I would say stay with your auto since at the track the most consistent amatuers are probably running autos.

If autos make the best draggers, why do people constantly promote the manual as being the best?

[Oldsman]

normally due to less hp loss thru the tranny and better launches. sometimes better et's. but depends on driver. also it is just cooler to shift the tranny. but people have to remember it isn't a rockcrusher or crash box. the new manuals can handle the abuse like the manuals from the 60's.

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

Eddie, just to clear something up...you corrected me (point 4)...which is fine. But I also noted that I have never driven a stick except for in GT3...so for games it easier for that, but unless someone's got a very durable tranny (or $$ to blow on a new one) what you said is good. :P

Originally posted by Final-Reality@Mar 30 2004, 07:32 PM
No no, you don't know what you're talking about. The closer gear ratios automatically mean it's better. A torque convertor doesnt multiply engine torque, the gears do, big shooter. And a torque convertor is far heavier than a clutch, which is another disadvantage. :rolleyes:

The torque converter does multiply torque do a little research and you will learn this. Also wooho you got 5 gears, big deal the auto will run up to top speed in 3rd gear in both applications v-6 and I-4. So now you have to go through one more shift. Each time you shift gears it costs you time, so I guess that really proves you wrong.

You need too look into things before you posts, because, with minimal research you will know you are wrong.

Oh not to discount you Oldsman, but the stall speeds for the different engines are enough to significanly multiply toruqe. At stall, the 4 cylinders apps are multipling torque by 2.4 and the v-6 is multiplying torque by 1.7. There is more to consider than just stall speed. Stall torque ratio must be considered as well.

I am not familiar with the manuals ratios, but I believe based on a Torque converter it is posible to put more power to the wheels than with that the manual trans. There are alot of vehical and power train dynamics going on, way to much to even begin to touch on here.

Originally posted by overdrive75@Mar 31 2004, 07:15 AM
The torque converter does multiply torque do a little research and you will learn this.

I'm well aware of "torque convertor lock up" which is there to help improve mileage somewhat, but it is only by a very small amount, a couple hundred RPMs. A couple hundred RPMs is fairly inconsequential compared to the thousand+ RPM spread between gear ratios. And it only locks up above approx. 40Mph, so below this speed it's always "multiplying torque" (by a couple hundred RPMs) :rolleyes:

Yeah Final, you tell him. I mean, I'm sure working with automatic transmissions EVERY DAY he hasn't learned anything about how they work. He's not the one calibrating that converter and trans either. Oh wait, that's HIS JOB. Give him a little respect and stop being such a know it all ass.