automatic verses manual

Originally posted by Final-Reality+Mar 31 2004, 10:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Final-Reality @ Mar 31 2004, 10:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-overdrive75@Mar 31 2004, 07:15 AM
The torque converter does multiply torque do a little research and you will learn this.

I'm well aware of "torque convertor lock up" which is there to help improve mileage somewhat, but it is only by a very small amount, a couple hundred RPMs. A couple hundred RPMs is fairly inconsequential compared to the thousand+ RPM spread between gear ratios. And it only locks up above approx. 40Mph, so below this speed it's always "multiplying torque" (by a couple hundred RPMs) :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
Till you get your facts right, I will continue to let you look like a know it all idiot. I am not here to argue I am right, you are wrong. So it's up to you to choose if you want to believe what I am delievering to be fact, or continue to cook up fantasy and fiction and believe it.

I don't bunnying care if he builds automatic transmissions from scratch.

Originally posted by "overdrive75"
So just having an extra gear doesn't automaticaly make it better, you have to consider everything.

If he knew what he was talking about, he'd know the extra goddamn gear makes a clear, noticeable difference (why do you think ANY car with a manual transmission and 1 extra gear over it's automatic counterpart is faster from 0-60?) and wouldn't have said that. Maybe he's just being a retard because he works on automatic transmissions and thus feels the need to "defend their honor" and try to prove to everyone that they are superior for some reason? I don't know, but I can't believe somebody who works on transmissions actually said that an extra gear "doesn't automatically make it better". We know torque convertors multiply torque and we know they have lockup clutches so the input & output shafts are spinning at the same speed to help improve mileage. I don't know all the inner workings of a torque convertor nor am I pretending to, but anybody, especially YOU, should know that an extra gear is ALWAYS a good thing, unless for some magical reason your torque curve is flat as a board. (Yes even the torquey 3400 has a peak and it would benefit in acceleration from a 5-speed and a decent driver)

[Oldsman]

here is the getrag ratios...........

Gear Ratios: (M86)

First: 3.58
Second: 2.02
Third: 1.35
Fourth: 0.98
Fifth: 0.69
Reverse: 3.31

here is the auto ratios

Gear Ratios:

First: 2.957
Second: 1.623
Third: 1.000
Fourth: 0.863
Reverse: 2.143


As you can see there is diffferences the manual will give you a better launch and keep your R's in your power band.

who cares about the convertor. the convertor might be ok for a stock motor. but if it was the best setup then aftermarket higher stall wouldn't be needed and/or made.

bottom line........... the manual has less hp loss thru the drivetrain than an auto. with the better gearing the manual will give you another edge over an auto.

[Fast Eddie]

Originally posted by Final-Reality+Mar 31 2004, 11:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Final-Reality @ Mar 31 2004, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I don't bunnying care if he builds automatic transmissions from scratch.

<!--QuoteBegin-"overdrive75"
So just having an extra gear doesn't automaticaly make it better, you have to consider everything.

If he knew what he was talking about, he'd know the extra goddamn gear makes a clear, noticeable difference (why do you think ANY car with a manual transmission and 1 extra gear over it's automatic counterpart is faster from 0-60?) and wouldn't have said that. Maybe he's just being a retard because he works on automatic transmissions and thus feels the need to "defend their honor" and try to prove to everyone that they are superior for some reason? I don't know, but I can't believe somebody who works on transmissions actually said that an extra gear "doesn't automatically make it better". We know torque convertors multiply torque and we know they have lockup clutches so the input & output shafts are spinning at the same speed to help improve mileage. I don't know all the inner workings of a torque convertor nor am I pretending to, but anybody, especially YOU, should know that an extra gear is ALWAYS a good thing, unless for some magical reason your torque curve is flat as a board. (Yes even the torquey 3400 has a peak and it would benefit in acceleration from a 5-speed and a decent driver) [/b][/quote]
If you read the whole post he made you would see that the auto, in both engines, can reach top speed on the car in third. Whereas the manual needs to be in fourth to hit top speed so you have an additional shift in a manual. Since shifts take time, no matter how fast, its better to make fewer and since you have one less in the auto it would be an advantage. I've seen all kinds of auto take manuals with the same an large engines for many reasons, so the whole manual is faster 0-60 is BS.

The advantages the stock manual tranny has over the stock auto is that 1. it has less powertrain loss, this has been dyno proven overdrive, sorry. 2. the manual has better gearing. The auto is more consistant though and will probably take more abuse in the long run.

A good shifter will still beat an auto Eddie, hands down. I wouldn't put my bone stock 2.4/4A against a bone stock 2.4/5M with a compitent driver. I doubt he'd even have to power shift, really, just be a really fast shifter.

The argument about the guy having to shift into 4th to reach top speed is moot. What are you trying to say? The car will already be ahead as long as he's a good shifter, so that extra gear change won't cost him the win, if you were in some strange race to the 108MPH speed limiter.

I honestly can't believe how much of a backlask some people are taking when their slushbox is dissed. Just deal with the simple fact that for someone who enjoys driving, a manual is a better option.

Originally posted by Final-Reality@Apr 1 2004, 02:14 AM
Just deal with the simple fact that for someone who enjoys driving, a manual is a better option.

Well there you go that is the first thing that you have posted the made sence.

As far as the manual having less loss through it I never disagreed with that. I have just stated that there are more benifits to an auto. For just about any racing. Look out there, just about all drag cars a autos, be it many are manually shifted, same with baja race trucks (4L85E) is the favored.