ABS

[Bumber]

I can't stand ABS - under any conditions!

I want to kill it!

Same for traction; I get tired of shutting it off as soon as I start my engine - EVERY TIME!


Can somebody tell me if I can just unplug something somewhere?
Can I remove the whole system? (Lighten the car too)?
Or would my car just not brake worth beans afterwards?

[3.4Alero]

ABS and traction control are controlled by the wheel sensors within the sealed hub unit. This also contains the wheel bearings. Each hub has a plug near it that goes to the computer. If you unplug it, you will at least get an SVS light, the ABS light will come on, and the Trac-off light will come on. I'm not sure if the speed-o will quit or not.

Hey, here's an idea: there are enough of us that have had the hubs go bad (the electricals, not the bearings), so just have people send you their bad ones and you could send them back your good ones! That was a joke.

[Pimpalero03]

lol i had two go bad and replaced for free. WARRENTY baby

[misslindseysue]

Originally posted by Pimpalero03@Feb 23 2004, 12:32 PM
lol i had two go bad and replaced for free. WARRENTY baby
<_< My warrAnty was up long before anything serious went wrong. Damn me buying my car a MONTH before they started offering 60,000k/5 yr warranties. Then I could have paid for the extended, but nothing major had gone wrong...

I don't know about getting rid of ABS. Sounds like a huge PITA. Maybe there's a fuse? I dunno. Why do you hate it so much? Mine's saved my ass more than once.

[overdrive75]

Pull the fuse for the ABS, that will disable it. With ABS disabled, traction control will not work as ABS and traction control are one system. AS far as pulling it out of the car forget about it. There a big differences between and abs and non-abs car.

[Final-Reality]

Yeah disable ABS because locking up your front tires and sliding into an intersection is fun :rolleyes:

Keep your damn ABS on, you'll be glad you did first time you need to stop quickly in the rain or snow

[BLK03GXS]

Originally posted by Final-Reality@Feb 23 2004, 11:55 PM
Yeah disable ABS because locking up your front tires and sliding into an intersection is fun :rolleyes:

Keep your damn ABS on, you'll be glad you did first time you need to stop quickly in the rain or snow
i agree :thumbsup:
yah man, keep it, some ppl hate it but its save manny ppl,
If the wheels dont lock...you stop... i wish i had abs on my car, but i dont, lol
i know that the abs stops my rents 03 gmc 1500 hella quick, even in the rain and snow.

[Fast Eddie]

I was gonna say pull the fuse but I got beat to it. As for not liking it, the numbers prove its works, and far better than you do.

[Purple&Black]

Isn't the real question here WHY he would even want to disable it? http://home.comcast.net/~mcronin29/images/nono.gif

Damn...for the sake of everyone else on the road near him, he should keep it. Might save someone else's life in the rain if not his own.

Unless he's using the same faulty logic that my dad uses when he's hating airbags.

My Dad: "This guy was in an accident and the airbag broke his nose! If they didn't have the damn things, he'd be fine!"
Me: "Yeah, but they didn't tell you that without airbags, he'd have huge bruises on his shoulder from the seatbelt, might have broken his collarbone and may well have died. Death vs. a broken nose?"
My Mom: "Stop arguing, you two!"
:)

[overdrive75]

On thing to remember about 4 wheel ABS, it wasn't until about 10 years ago ABS started to become very popular on vehicles. What did people do before ABS?

[justinusaf]

I have a GS eclipse along with the Alero. In the rain and in dry weather i prefer the no-ABS-eclipse. It seems to work better for me. As far as in the snow. The alero handles the best by far. I guess you just have to know what you want.

[Aleromaster]

there has only been one time I was glad to not have ABS and that was when I had my 87 Cutlass Ciera Coupe and hit the brakes to avoid an accident and ended up parked un der the bed of a jack up truck 1/2" from his rear differential. If I had ABS I probably would of slid into the axel of that truck, But everyother time it saved my ass although I wish it was a little less sensitive.

[springs fastest alero]

Abs fo the most part will save your ass. especially on ice!
it kept me from being in an intercetion once on black ice
my friend behind me didnt have it. down shifted and pulsed his brakes. still kissed my car :(

I'm sure my blizzaks helped too though.

if you track race the car there are some times when abs can get ya in trouble
a trac off style button would be nice for this.
keep in mind pulling the fuse will turn on 3-4 lights in the dash
personally those would drive me up the wall worse than abs

[Final-Reality]

ABS, especially newer ABS systems, "pump" the brakes hundreds of times a second, far faster than anybody claims they can pump the brakes on their own..

Older systems arent quite as good, such as on my previous vechicle, a '91 chevy 1500 4x4 (which only had front ABS, not rear), it's "threshold" for the ABS kicking in seemed to me lower than in the alero, my theory is computers were far slower in '91 than they are today, so sensors couldnt analyze wheel lockup as quickly as they can today, and thus the threshold for the ABS was lower than it is now... right? Right? Maybe? :unsure:

Edit: If somebody claims such and such a vehicle without ABS is better at braking than such a such a vehicle WITH ABS, then it's probably that the vehicle without ABS is lighter or simply better at braking than the ABS-equipped car. (Such as the guy who said the Eclipse without ABS was better in the rain at stopping, but not in snow, thats because the Eclipse can simply stop better than an Alero can, and it takes a very slippery surface, such as snow, to realize the full benefits of ABS)

[Bumber]

Don't get me wrong, ABS are a great invention, especially if you haven't learned how to handle a car without them. They can save your butt on ice and sometimes in the rain - and ANY time you panic - which is why it is especially a great feature for an Oldsmobile - mostly driven by old people who don't want/aren't able to see a better way, or handle the better way out of the potential crash, then just pulling on the wheel and slamming the foot down. :o
Locking up the wheels, provided it's planned and accounted for in your emergency maneuver, CAN quite often, again, provided you know what your doing, stop you in a much safer manner, and in the case of snow (not ice) and gravel (on the side of all the roads around here (Ontario), with exclusion of major freeways, and grass or anything else that can build up under the tire, thereby increasing friction contact surface area, slow you down upwards of 30 - 60 feet sooner (given 100kph movement) than if your wheels were not allowed to lock up.
Yes, I do come from a family of strange drivers. B) We all prefer to know our cars responses and demand instant obedience (guess why I drive standard). Yes, we practice emergency maneuvers and have had to use them, so far, with great success (notta with the accidents). My personal preference is to lock and steer and maybe even yank on that parking brake and hit the gas to move me away in another direction (man I hate our emergency braking system (it's really only good for parking)), not straightline slam or even try to steer while ABSing.

Yet, in the end, the existence of orange lights on the dash all the time WOULD drive me more insane :pissed: than the ABS annoys me. I have had training in emergency braking on ice, with ABS, while dodging pylons (good fun). I will adjust to its existance and keep my ABS, if only because of the lights.

Thanks for the input. :thumbsup:

[overdrive75]

^^What are you talking about, do the laws of physics not apply to you as well. Static friction is by far higher than dynamic friction. If you tires do not lock up they are not sliding, therefore the contact patch of the tires to the traction surface is a static condition hence higher friction. Now if you lock your tires up, you have entered a dynamic state, and the coeffiecent of friction is considerably lower in this condition.

The one plain and simple test which has been run time and time again, by the automotive community, which includes the manufacturers, magazines, and independent testing houses, which involves, ABS vs. non-ABS, that he same vehicle with the ABS stops in a shorter distance than the identical vehicle without ABS.

That is the facts, the laws of physics apply to everyone.

I suppose if you want to drive wreckless like that and put others on the road in danger that is your business, but keep it over there please.

[Crazy_Canuck]

Patrick, I was just checking your spot out on cardomain.com

Are you a Yooper??? Dude, you are so lucky to live there if you are.... GODS COUNTRY! :P :thumbsup:

[overdrive75]

Originally posted by Crazy_Canuck@Mar 3 2004, 08:45 PM
Patrick, I was just checking your spot out on cardomain.com

Are you a Yooper??? Dude, you are so lucky to live there if you are.... GODS COUNTRY! :P :thumbsup:
No, Detroit area all the way. I did spend 4 years in the upper though for college. That's right graduated from MTU.

[Fast Eddie]

Final - I know what you're talking about the thresholds beign weird in older cars. I managed to slide my aunt's 91 camry through many and intersection :eek: I think the threshold actually was higher on those older vehicles, thereby it took more slip to get the ABS to "release" the brakes, and reapply them once again until slippage occurs.

Overdrive Is right. Do the laws of physics not apply to canucks? The only way you can pull some of the manuvers you are talking about are in a RWD car. As for having more or less friction due to debris or what not it doesn't matter (im not gonna debate the reality of this occuring). The ABS system uses threshold braking, this should be a known to you if you have been to driving schools, and the sensors monitor and ajust for tire spin thousands of time than any human, no matter how well you know your car, thereby stopping a vehicle faster no matter the grip of the tires or the slickness of the road. Once you learn how to drive with ABS you will actually have MORE control over you car. I took me awhile to recognize this but its true, esp on FWD cars.

[Final-Reality]

Originally posted by overdrive75@Mar 3 2004, 08:43 PM
No, Detroit area all the way.
I wonder how many of us are from the windsor/detroit area...

Edit: I sense a "I'm a better driver than all of you so I don't need ABS" post by bumber, and his logic is retarded. Any and all testing has proven that you can stop faster with ABS than with non-ABS by a large margin. This includes simply locking the tires and sliding to a stop, or trying to keep the tires on the verge of locking up by modulating the pedal yourself. ABS is always far quicker, not just by the manufacturers but by independant auto magazines...

And I also don't want to hear about "control" when your tires are locked up. If you've ever locked up the front tires on your '91 chevy 4x4 in the snow *cough*, you'll know that there's nothing those wheels will do while locked up but slide forward.... and it's the same situation in rain or dry weather, only to a lesser extent. If your tires are sliding across the tarmac, grass, gravel, whatever, you can't exert as much control over your vehicle as you could if they were rolling across it. Hell even F1 drivers used to have ABS before it was banned by the FIA. Why do you think that is big shooter?

[Fast Eddie]

Actually you can gain some advantage by locking up the rear end and whipping it around then using the throttle to straighten it out and gain a higher exit speed through the twisties. However the whole idea is pushing the car out of control just to the point that it is an advantage, instead of an accident in the making.

[misslindseysue]

Originally posted by Final-Reality@Mar 3 2004, 11:08 PM
I wonder how many of us are from the windsor/detroit area...
Quite a few. I will be in another month or so. In Midwest we're planning a SE MI meet. You're welcome to cross the bridge/tunnel and meet with us, but we'll be about an hour from the border.

[Final-Reality]

Originally posted by Fast Eddie@Mar 4 2004, 02:37 AM
Actually you can gain some advantage by locking up the rear end and whipping it around then using the throttle to straighten it out and gain a higher exit speed through the twisties.
Actually, except for perhaps in very tight corners, it's faster to simply find the smoothest line, and go into the corner slow enough so that you can punch it right after the apex out of the turn. This has probably been proven before, too. Locking up your tires and sliding will always slow you down more than you can make up for with a quick exit speed..

[sound_xtreme]

im not even gonna read all of these posts.

I just have one question.....are you stupid or something? It's there for a reason and has saved my car(directional tires in snow suck) more than once.

[3.4Alero]

I agree with sound, but I read all the posts. Everything I was going to type has pretty much already been said. Summed up, its like this:

ABS is good. Your tires create MUCH more friction by pulsing than if they were locked up. This is no ones' opinion. It is physics. Also, once you lock up your front tires, bye-bye steering. Again, pulsing is good, because you can steer. Once again, physics.

I may try pulling the fuse and running the track this year, just for poops and giggles, but again, that's in a controlled, non-panic setting.

[Fast Eddie]

Originally posted by Final-Reality+Mar 4 2004, 12:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Final-Reality @ Mar 4 2004, 12:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Fast Eddie@Mar 4 2004, 02:37 AM
Actually you can gain some advantage by locking up the rear end and whipping it around then using the throttle to straighten it out and gain a higher exit speed through the twisties.
Actually, except for perhaps in very tight corners, it's faster to simply find the smoothest line, and go into the corner slow enough so that you can punch it right after the apex out of the turn. This has probably been proven before, too. Locking up your tires and sliding will always slow you down more than you can make up for with a quick exit speed.. [/b][/quote]
Ok my bad let me try and re-explain the situation......

when driving a RWD car you can navigate a turn W/O ever using the brakes. you can throw the car into a turn, let it slid through almost to the apex and use the rearend to oversteer to bring the car through the apex and already have the tires up to speed. I'm not doing the idea justice but in a RWD car, if you know what you're doing, you can take the corner just as fast AND exit with a higher exit speed, since you can oversteer the ass end. Once again this does NOT apply to the alero since its FWD.

[PaulVS]

There's an intersection I go thru on my way home from work. It has a slight downhill curve to the right to the stoplight. (Rte. 83 & Cass Ave for you Chicago area people)

EVERY TIME I brake up to the light, my ABS kicks in, even when the pavement is perfectly dry. I don't get it.

So... chalk me up as another one who hates ABS on the Alero. The only GOOD ABS I ever had was (believe it or not) a Suzuki Sidekick. That one actually worked the way ABS is supposed to.

The worst ABS.... I had a Ford Contour rental before I got the Alero, and the ABS was deadly -- I could never stop in time in the snow when it kicked in.

[springs fastest alero]

well it kept me out of an eclipse last night.
stupid bitch cut over on me and I had to slam on it to keep from getting hit.
without abs I prolly would of slid into her.

[Bumber]

For those of you who think I think ABS are not a good invention, try rereading what I already wrote - keep reading until you find the part where I explain why I think they're a great invention.

For those of who think I'm a proud butt kid with a too good for you other drivers attitude, you're entitled to such opinions and I will put no effort into trying to make myself look good in your eyes.

As to the hand brake thing, yes, RWD is when it can be most useful (I have never done it in a FWD in an emergency situation - wouldn't trust myself with that either - contrary to some opinions, I'm no fool).

As to physics, laws are constant, circumstances are not.

For those interested in some other info regarding ABS (some of which may contain answers for those who question why I would personaly prefer to drive without it):

Fleet Flash (http://www.fva.gov.mb.ca/html/flash5.htm)
-just incase you miss the point in here, here it is again:However, cars with anti-lock brakes are up to 65% more likely to be in fatal crashes than cars without them, says a new US study. It appears that the problem isn't with the technology, it's poor driving habits and lack of driver awareness

Audi Glossary (http://www.audi.com.sg/glossary/a/abs.htm)
-just incase you miss the point in here, here it is again: A note on ABS: when driving on certain surfaces like gravel or snow on a hard road surface, ABS may result in longer stopping distances.

Anti-lock Braking Systems (http://www.msgroup.org/TIP083.html)
...studies showed a 0% decrease in the overall number of accidents when comparing ABS equipped cars against those without ABS, AND because these studies showed a 40% increase in single vehicle run-off-the-road accidents with ABS equipped cars.

Transport Canada (http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp13082/abs2_e.htm)

Is the stopping distance shorter with ABS?

No! From early commercials, it may have looked like you could stop on a dime. .... You should allow for a longer stopping distance with ABS than for conventional brakes when driving on gravel, slush, and snow. This is because the rotating tire will stay on top of this low traction road surface covering, and effectively "float" on this boundary layer.

A non ABS braked vehicle can lock its tires and create a snow plow effect in front of the tires which helps slow the vehicle. These locked tires can often find more traction below this boundary layer.



As much as I don't mind people having wrong opinions about myself, I would appreciate that the narrowminded folk, or at least the ignorant, would refrain from responding to my posts. I am not an ignorant child as perhaps some of you have run into on Aleromod. It would be appreciated if I could be shown some respect, but I understand if you do not.

If my posts offend anybody (perhaps by making them look like the panicy type of bad driver that just slams on the brakes and gets into accidents), my sincerest appologies. Please note that I have not bothered to mock anybody here but have simply given my reasons for personaly prefering to not have ABS.

If you require any other information, please look it up yourself, especially before attempting to mock me. You may find you will look a little less foolish (because it's a wise idea).

Again, I couldn't care about all you disagreeable people's opinion of me, but I post this for your information. Perhaps on day if you are driving in Canada you will remember this and consider leaving a little extra space or watching the other drivers a little more closely; I, for one, cannot say I have tried any emergency manuevers in the US and cannot personaly vouch for your laws of physics; neither have I found anything about them on any of the websites I have visited. If anybody can give me reason why I may be less careless (without being more foolish) in the US, send it to me, I am not above learning something new.

Thank you very much for your consideration.

;)

[2ndAlero]

Originally posted by overdrive75@Feb 26 2004, 07:18 AM
On thing to remember about 4 wheel ABS, it wasn't until about 10 years ago ABS started to become very popular on vehicles. What did people do before ABS?
Sorry to beat up on a alumni of mine (I went to MTU as well)...

But... basically more people died before ABS. Simple answer.

Cars didn't have seatbelts at first, but they do now.

Cars didn't have headlights at first, but they do now.

Just because it wasn't there before, doesn't mean it's a bad thing now... nor should that be confused with saying all new "features" are good... but in this case I think it's hard to find a case where ABS has caused a problem.

[overdrive75]

^^ Exactly, that's what I was trying to say, thanks for backing me up 2ndAlero.

[Aleromaster]

Hey just take it to the dealer i'm sure they can turn it off. There is a law someware saying that the consumer has its choices. The aguement originally came up when someone didn't want air bags in there car. All I have to sa is if you don't want your insurance rates to rise don't let them find out it is turned off as that is one of the factors in figuring out rates

[Final-Reality]

Originally posted by Fast Eddie@Mar 6 2004, 02:46 AM
when driving a RWD car you can navigate a turn W/O ever using the brakes. you can throw the car into a turn, let it slid through almost to the apex and use the rearend to oversteer to bring the car through the apex and already have the tires up to speed.
Yeah, that's true... you can use the throttle to steer through a turn effectively.

Which is fine and dandy once you're in the turn at the proper speed. But if you're approaching the turn from a long straight at, say, 108mph, and it's a tight 180 degree turn that you can only take at 50mph, guess who's going to be able to stop faster? Especially in a race car where the brakes are huge and biased for quick high-speed stopping, the front tires will easily lock up once you slow down for the turn, unless you have ABS

Advantage: ABS... arguing the point that you don't even NEED brakes through the turn is moot point. Let's just remove them altogether if you don't need them at all! :rolleyes:

[2ndAlero]

Everyone can quote different news stories that support their side... here's one:

http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/st...800390001264334 (http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=50201&id=2004030800390001264334)

[PaulVS]

My point here is.... "NOT ALL ABS' ARE CREATED EQUAL."

As I said, I had a '94 Suzuki Sidekick that awesome ABS. It worked perfectly, and probably saved my a$$ a few times. (My 2nd car now is a '97 Sidekick. They took the ABS off to pay for the airbag cost.)

But I've driven a lot of cars that have really, really, really poorly engineered ABS.
I was amazed with the Contour's ABS. I would stop on snow and it was as if I had no brakes AT ALL. And the intersection I referred to above requires me to be EXTRA careful when stopping so that I don't 'brake' out into the middle of the intersection.

I would love to know if someone has driven an expensive car with ABS (Porsche, Mercedes, etc) and compare it to the Alero's.

Also, I think any accident statistics have too many variables (more cars with airbags, more people wearing seatbealts due to seatbelt laws, etc) to make any really definitive comparisons.

Plain & simple... I feel less safe with ABS. I learned to drive long before ABS was invented, and I learned how to pump the brakes under wet/slick pavement conditions extremely well.

[misslindseysue]

I've never driven one (*drool*), but a Porshe 911 has the best stock 60-0 distance of any car you can buy at a dealer, that's ABS.

[Fast Eddie]

Originally posted by Final-Reality+Mar 7 2004, 12:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Final-Reality @ Mar 7 2004, 12:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Fast Eddie@Mar 6 2004, 02:46 AM
when driving a RWD car you can navigate a turn W/O ever using the brakes. you can throw the car into a turn, let it slid through almost to the apex and use the rearend to oversteer to bring the car through the apex and already have the tires up to speed.
Yeah, that's true... you can use the throttle to steer through a turn effectively.

Which is fine and dandy once you're in the turn at the proper speed. But if you're approaching the turn from a long straight at, say, 108mph, and it's a tight 180 degree turn that you can only take at 50mph, guess who's going to be able to stop faster? Especially in a race car where the brakes are huge and biased for quick high-speed stopping, the front tires will easily lock up once you slow down for the turn, unless you have ABS

Advantage: ABS... arguing the point that you don't even NEED brakes through the turn is moot point. Let's just remove them altogether if you don't need them at all! :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
Let me KEEP refining what I meant. Since, Like I said, I probably will not do the concept justice. You can navigate SOME turns w/o using the brakes. A properly timed down shift used with low angle corner, or a very wide turn will sometimes allow proper employ of this technique. The main reason you can get away with this at speeds that seem unreal is the, as you so elequantly pointed out, the sliding action of the tires takes a good deal of speed out of the car. Otherwise the hard braking, to throw the weight over the front tires, turning, as wide as possible through the Apex, and downshift, prior to the apex so you can gun it once your through the front half, is the way to drive. If I'm still missing something let me know, or you can go do driving school for yourself :rolleyes:

[2000NavyAleroGLS]

Exactly. F1 drivers use them because it gives you more control over your car. Why would you want to have no ABS. Although i have noticed that it does lengthen your stopping distance on snow and ice when they kick in. I know this better than probably most of you cause I have winter longer than any of you most likely. From Saskatchewan. On tarmac and most other surfaces it does decrees your stopping distance. The light would drive me crazy too. Just keep the ABS working. If it kills you that much to push a button to turn off traction control than you have problems. Also why do you have to always have traction control off? Are you always spinning your tires. Maybe you should learn to take it easy once and a while.

[2000NavyAleroGLS]

Originally posted by misslindseysue@Mar 8 2004, 02:58 PM
I've never driven one (*drool*), but a Porshe 911 has the best stock 60-0 distance of any car you can buy at a dealer, that's ABS.
Actually a Ferrari Enzo has the best 60-0 time for braking and it has ABS.

[2000NavyAleroGLS]

May not be able to buy it at a dealer but then the Ferrari 360 Modena has the next quickest and you can get that at the dealer. This car is only a couple feet behind.

[3.4 Euro Alero]

Just to stir up the pot once more. Why do you think a company like GM, the first automotive company to offer ABS as standard equipment on virtually all its vehicles in the mid '90's, are in the process of removing ABS as standard equipment? Notice most new models have ABS as an option? Not that it's all that bad, but people don't know how to use it. On slippery roads, I'd prefer it without!

[misslindseysue]

Without ABS they can make base model price cheaper. Comparisons are usually based on base models, it's the only way they can compete with the likes of Kia. It also saves weight, and there are people who don't want it.

[3.4 Euro Alero]

A buddy of mine is a Olds Sales Rep, and "unofficially" GM is currently dropping ABS because of the stats of people rear ending others due to longer breaking distances with ABS. They are explaining it as a price alternative as to not make people worry who have already bought GM vehicles with ABS. The vast majority of people who get in a panic situation lock their arms and hit the brakes, they do not steer around the obstacle as they should. GM just figured since most people do this, why not drop the ABS so that people can stop shorter and likely not run into someones rear end.

[misslindseysue]

If you knew the answer and were so ready to correct me, why did you ask the question? What I've heard from inside GM is that it's a price thing. I'm sure there are many other factors as well.

[3.4 Euro Alero]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to demean and correct you, I was just putting forth the post as a way to make people think about it a little. We all know ABS can be excellent, depending upon the conditions. The letter I personally viewed from GM was explaining how the benefits of ABS really are not being used as they were meant to be, hence the reason it has failed pretty badly to the general public. We have to remember that even though we are younger and most of us have always driven vehicles equipped with ABS, the vast majority of the population drove without it for so long, and were never taught how to use it once it became available. The reason I found out about GM dropping it was that it was not on my new Alero, and it is far from a base model (aside from the braking system, it was top of the line). I know it was standard for many years, so I asked why they would change something like this, especially when Olds was already in its final stages. My dealership is actually recommending people not purchase it unless they really like/want it. Price would be a factor with cheaper cars(Cavalier/Sunfire), but not likely with Alero, Impala, Monte Carlo & Equinox's.

[springs fastest alero]

You lock your wheels and start to slide and it will take longer to stop.
most people get in wrecks with abs because they dont get into the abs enough to realize the pulsating is normal.
abs was for the general public that just slammed on the brakes, locked up the wheels and came sliding into cars with no control. but the general public also lets off the pedal when it starts to kick back at them.
general public cant drive thats why drive by wire, steer by wire, and brake by wire are being worked on. people dont know how to drive so car compaines make cars that drive for them. brake by wire will actually brake harder if needed to avaoid danger.

not everyone wants abs standard and thats why gm is dropping it.

[Final-Reality]

This is the worst thread ever.

3.4 Euro Alero, stop trolling the goddanm thread.

If you wan't to kill ABS and you *INSIST* it's better, keep your lousy opinions and your obvious attempts to sway the opinions of others by insisting that your friend, the "olds sales rep" :rolleyes:, says olds removed it because of shorter stopping distances. Please.

Go ahead and figure out a way to disable ABS, nobody here cares, we're just telling you, like we have many times before, that ABS gives you shorter stopping distances and better control, and thats the goddamn reason why it exists.

Why do you think F1 teams implemented it on their cars? Because it made things more difficult for them? Of course the FIA mandated that they remove ABS and traction control because you might as well have a computer drive the car, but thats neither here nor there.

Get over it.

[3.4 Euro Alero]

Funny how some people absolutely know it all ^ and because they don't like what others say, so they are lousy opinions. Watch Car & Driver once and awhile and see what ABS does in slippery conditions. Shocked the hell out of me! Sorry, I should have been more specific. For Users in the southern US, YES ABS IS BETTER! For the rest of us up NORTH, it is good for the summer, but useless in winter conditions. I really don't care since I have 2 vehicles, 1 with and 1 without. I know how to drive each of them so it's no prob for me. Kinda funny how these guys with say 4 or 5 years of driving experience know it all. Enough said! I'm Done.

[overdrive75]

^^Dude, you are sounding like arogant know it all, I don't know how many times ABS has saved me in the snow. I used to live in the MI UP and there was stretches where you wouldn't see roads plowed down to pavement for months at a time. I have avoided idiots pulling out of driveways, deer, and other obsticles on the snow because of ABS. I also pull a trailer in the snow, and wouldn't feel comfortable without ABS on my tow vehicle, as I has saved me more than once in a panic stop from another drive not paying attention. Just because you don't understand and cannot opperate a vehicle with ABS, don't go pushing OH ABS is a bad thing, because you are wrong. You probably think smoking crack is good for your health too.

[n8tureboy]

ABS: in the winter it sux, I live in labrador and it's a royal pain in the ass..... the point of ABS is to allow you to slow down and steer out of a possible accident, but for that to work you need traction... on ice... nope not in Labrador.

As for the jamming on the breaks and Hoping for the best ABS sux for that too.... point is to let you steer out of a accident.

Pulling the Fuse Will Disable the ABS and Traction control, but your dash will be lit up like a Christmas tree. I've had to steal the fuse from the ABS to keep my cooling fans going a few times. Didn't cause any trouble for me.

N8tureboy

[3.4 Euro Alero]

Never claimed to be a know-it-all. If you knew how to read, I never said I do NOT like ABS. I prefer not having it in the winter. Kinda getting boring here, so back up your comments with facts, as I will here.

QUOTE: Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?
Perhaps, but that’s not the main purpose of ABS. It is a system designed to help you maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not necessarily make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and most systems may shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as gravel or unpacked snow, ABS may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or icy conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions. nhtsa.dot.gov (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/absbrakes/page1.html)

Quote: Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without it?
Not always. Although the stopping distance with ABS is shorter under most road conditions, drivers should always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of them and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions. While a vehicle with ABS maintains its steering capability in a sudden stop, it may not turn as quickly on a slippery road as it would on dry pavement. abs-education (http://www.abs-education.org/faqs/faqindex.htm)

Quote: Why does the data indicate that ABS fails to reduce accidents?
Safety experts have determined that people do not know how to use ABS effectively when confronted with an emergency situation. Most of the driving populace learned accident-avoidance techniques before ABS was developed. On Sunday, December 17, 1995, the Arizona Republic ran a front page article about a disturbing new insurance trend. USAA, the fifth-largest automobile insurer in the United States, has announced that discounts for vehicles equipped with anti-lock brakes (ABS) will cease, after finding no substantial difference in accident claims between vehicles equipped with ABS and those without ABS.edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/driving/articles/43814/article.html)

Quote: Does ABS reduce stopping distances?
A. Yes, in braking situations where the wheels on a non-ABS equipped vehicle would lock up, ABS will generally provide shorter controlled stopping distance. The amount of improvement in stopping distance depends on many factors, including the road surface, severity of braking, initial vehicle speed, etc. On some surfaces, such as gravel roads, braking distances can be longer, but you will still have the control benefits of ABS. The important capability of ABS is control. ABS provides improved vehicle steerability and stability when braking.
GM Fleet (http://www.gmfleet.com/us/products/specialized/police/safety/abs.html)

Also Check out: abs fact index (http://www.fact-index.com/a/an/anti_lock_braking_system.html)
Canadian Driver.com (http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/rr/abs.htm)

Bottom line. ABS IS GREAT IN CERTAIN DRIVING CONDITIONS, BUT NOT OTHERS. KNOW HOW TO DRIVE WITH IT!

[3.4 Euro Alero]

Originally posted by n8tureboy@Jul 20 2004, 07:04 AM
ABS: in the winter it sux, I live in labrador and it's a royal pain in the ass..... the point of ABS is to allow you to slow down and steer out of a possible accident, but for that to work you need traction... on ice... nope not in Labrador.

As for the jamming on the breaks and Hoping for the best ABS sux for that too.... point is to let you steer out of a accident.

Pulling the Fuse Will Disable the ABS and Traction control, but your dash will be lit up like a Christmas tree. I've had to steal the fuse from the ABS to keep my cooling fans going a few times. Didn't cause any trouble for me.

N8tureboy
See, everyone has a different reason for liking it or not. As we are all aware now, ABS works differently for each of us, how we drive and where we drive. Lets all agree to disagree! :cheers: Disputes such as this bring up good points and can educate, such as we have had here, but they should not start fighting. We all joined this site for the same reason, we love Alero's.
Back to the point of this thread, like n8tureboy said, pull the relay, and if the dash bothers you, put a piece of tape on it or pull the lights out as well.