Capacitor help

[battistoni21]

Hey i was wondering if anyone could give me any good advice on a good capacitor to go along with my audio set up....

in 2 weeks i should have 3 JL audio 12in w3v2 subs powered by a 1800watt power acustic amp(sweetnlows)....

I'm not an audio person at all..... so ANY information would be great...

Thanks

[alerocar01]

i can't remember but i think you need one farad for every 1000 watts. so you will need at least a 2 farad capacitor. When you hook it up make sure to connect the power to the cap. then to the amp and then the ground from the amp to the cap. to ground.

[alero_ecotec]

keep your ground wire as short as possible

[jamcllw]

Don't waste your money it's not worth it.

[acold7dusta]

dont even bother

[battistoni21]

well i heard that these help your battery out.... im gonna need it considering i need to hook up an amp, subs, leds tubes under the car, ps2, and an lcd screen....

[derek_ski99]

they do very little...more for show than anything else. i have one and can tell you it does very little. lights dont dim quite as much and subs hit a little (emphasis on little) bit harder. really not worth the cash though.

[AftermathAlero]

add in a 2nd battey .. more benefits and cost as much as a good cap.

[sound_xtreme]

werd^

waste of money, instead u can just give it straight to me, itll give you bout the same effects

[Six Shooter]

LMAO, there has not been a system that I have installed a stiffening cap in that has NOT benifitted from a cap.

derek ski99's post proves they do their job, it just seems that he was hoping for some miricle that would eliminate all dimming. The fact that the systems can be heard to hit harder, indicates without doubt that the stiffening cap IS doing it's job.

What most people forget, the ones that usually say they do nothing or are not worth it, is that any electrical component can only work as well as the power supplied to it.

So if you haven't performed the big 3 upgrade under the hood, then you are losing out on a lot of potential performance improvment. Hell the big 3 is good to do even if you don't have a system.

Adding a second battery to an already weak electrical system will only make it worse. If the current battery can not be fully charged, then adding a second will only reduce availble power to the frist battery and you'll have two undercharged batteries.

Look at it this way, you have a supply of water that flows at 2 gallons per min (charge from alternator) in to a pail (battery) the draw is 2.5 gallons per minute, there is already a deficit of .5 gallons per minute, meaning the first pail can not be fully filled, and will drain. How is adding a second pail going to help?
Now granted the draw from an audio system is not constant, but the draw usually exceeds what the electrical system can provide and there for the second battery will only cause more problems.

On top of that, a secondary battery needs to be installed in a sealed holder, which is vented to the exterior of the car, which is way more costly than adding a cap or two, along with the extra fusing needed to protect the vehicle, becaus enow you're into the larger wafer fuses that are generall about $60 for the holder and one fuse, for s decent one, and can go up from there, you need two of these, so that's $120, plus the sealed and properly vented container, cheapest I've seen these is about $150, I mean for a true container for a trunk mount application. Marine containers do not meet this criteria, since they are not sealed.

We're up to $270

A good battery is about $150 to $200, for a red top, which IMO is the only battery worth considering.

Now we're up to $420 to $470 to put a battery in the rear of a car, and we haven't even gotten to the wire needed yet.

A good cap can be between $120 and $170 depending on the brand and where you buy it from. The transisent nature of a cap makes it MUCH more suitable for an audio system, and having too much capacitance is never a bad thing. ;)

So with wiring and such a cap install would be between $150 to $50 depending on what wire you used.

Labour has not been including as that can vary depending on a LOT of variables.

BTW, it doesn't matter which "way you connect a cap. meaning you don't HAVE to do as was mentioned with connecting the power wire to teh cap then to the amp then back to the cap and then to ground, it does not matter, since you will have the main fuse out and then charge it with a resistor or test light, in place of that main fuse.

[sound_xtreme]

first of all, i'd get a yellow. dont need to vent.(they CAN be vented, but isn't required)

second of all, ive done countless installs(ran a shop). and every single install i did with a cap was negligable considering the cost. yes, an alternator upgrade would be the best thing to do, then extra battery. caps are a bandaid for a cut that wont heal.

having sold that amp, if i would do ANYTHING, i'd just drop an extra battery in. but knowing that it is digital amp, i honestly wouldnt do anything. we ran the big brother(3000d) on my 4 10s and my lights wouldnt blink at all in the alero.

[FartCannonAlero]

caps are pointless... end of story

[Six Shooter]

first of all, i'd get a yellow. dont need to vent.(they CAN be vented, but isn't required)

second of all, ive done countless installs(ran a shop). and every single install i did with a cap was negligable considering the cost. yes, an alternator upgrade would be the best thing to do, then extra battery. caps are a bandaid for a cut that wont heal.

having sold that amp, if i would do ANYTHING, i'd just drop an extra battery in. but knowing that it is digital amp, i honestly wouldnt do anything. we ran the big brother(3000d) on my 4 10s and my lights wouldnt blink at all in the alero.

LOL.

EVERY battery, dry cell, gell cell, wet cell, or any other configuration out gasses as it charges, if it doesn't out gas, it isn't charging, venting is paramount, end of story, unless you like to possibly breath harmful invisible fumes.

Yellow tops are only good for key off time, for deep cycle they are designed for. Red tops discharge quicker and recharge quicker for more transient responce, and higher transient peaks.
Case in point there was a car that was running yellow tops for the system, changed them to red tops and picked up a consistant 1 DB, which in the high 150s means everything.

Oh BTW I also ran a shop, been playing this car audio game for many years, seen many ideas come and go, have done my own research on each part.
Have seen many benifits to stiffening caps and will continue to use them, since when they are properly installed they do benefit the system, and the car.

BTW I will ask this, if caps are so pointless why do so many amps have stiffening caps attached directly to the power supply? yes they are smaller, but they are there. Why do so many manufactures try to increase the value of the capactance of this area of the amplifier to make for a stronger amp? Why do the more powerful amps have larger arays of capacitors for just such a reason, and any electronics technitian that deals with the internals will tell you that increasing that capacitance even more will only benifit?

[sound_xtreme]

"Optima D31M Blue Top, D31A Yellow Top and D31T Yellow Top Batteries:The D31 series is Optima's most powerful single-unit deep cycle battery. Like all Optima batteries, the D31 series deep cycle batteries offer exceptionally high CCA for their size and boast 75 amp hours of current storage for long deep-cycling run times. The D31 deep cycle batteries will not off-gas in normal operation"

[Six Shooter]

"Optima D31M Blue Top, D31A Yellow Top and D31T Yellow Top Batteries:The D31 series is Optima's most powerful single-unit deep cycle battery. Like all Optima batteries, the D31 series deep cycle batteries offer exceptionally high CCA for their size and boast 75 amp hours of current storage for long deep-cycling run times. The D31 deep cycle batteries will not off-gas in normal operation"


Please explain why the Optima batteries have vents then. :rolleyes2:

Oh that's right, they outgas, when they charge, just like every other battery on the market. The dry cell just usually has less gas emmisions.

[sound_xtreme]

thats straight from their site dipshit. christ. im done, whatever

[Six Shooter]

thats straight from their site dipshit. christ. im done, whatever


I realize that's right from thier site.

I'm only telling you the reality of the situation, not some marketing scheme that is used.

[alerocar01]

i say get a cap. i have heard that it isn't good for a battery to be discharged a lot then charged a lot. a cap would cut down on how much is being discharged. This will help make that battery last longer.

[viciousmalibu]

ummm...with an extra battery, you would usually take it out tocharge it... so vapors would not be an issue... and the yellow top DOES NOT need venting when in use... now if you find away to hook up an alternator, which is bout impossible, then you would need a vent...LOL, not taking sides just showing you that you weren't thinking it through all the way... it's okay tho guys, everyone has





brainfarts....lol:scpimp:

[Six Shooter]

ummm...with an extra battery, you would usually take it out tocharge it... so vapors would not be an issue... and the yellow top DOES NOT need venting when in use... now if you find away to hook up an alternator, which is bout impossible, then you would need a vent...LOL, not taking sides just showing you that you weren't thinking it through all the way... it's okay tho guys, everyone has





brainfarts....lol:scpimp:

WHAT? WHAT?

Since when would you run a second battery without being conneceted to the car is some way, to charge WHILST listening to the system, or even just while the car is driving?

And why is it so hard to believe that even dry cells, like the Optima will outgas, they do, just the amount is less than a conventional lead acid battery, but it still happens.

[viciousmalibu]

dude, um an oem alternator WILL NOT handle that kind of charging capacity, i have a165 amp alternator and it can barely handle 13 neons, and a2000W amp. you would have to have like a 250 amp alternator, and by the time you run a power wire all the way to it from the trunk, it's not worth it, most people i have done this for, or have had it done, use trickle chargers to charge their second battery, but they also have stiffening caps that help reduce usage... only have to charge it like once amonth... i am just making a point, is it your main goal to make people look stupid, or am i not catching something in these recurring posts???

[Six Shooter]

dude, um an oem alternator WILL NOT handle that kind of charging capacity, i have a165 amp alternator and it can barely handle 13 neons, and a2000W amp. you would have to have like a 250 amp alternator, and by the time you run a power wire all the way to it from the trunk, it's not worth it, most people i have done this for, or have had it done, use trickle chargers to charge their second battery, but they also have stiffening caps that help reduce usage... only have to charge it like once amonth... i am just making a point, is it your main goal to make people look stupid, or am i not catching something in these recurring posts???

Oh boy.....

You should stop listening to the people that do NOT know about automotive electrical.

I have used secondary and system dedicated batteries, all connected to the OEM alternator, sometimes an upgraded alternator was used, but no where near the 250 amps you suggest. Usually a max of about 180 amps, since in MOST cars anything with a higher rating usually drops the bottome end off considerably, almost to the point of no idle charge.
In these arays of batteries that I have ran, they have been anywhere from a dual battery set-up (a single battery up front with a single system battery) to MULTIPLE batteries, as many as 7 in total IIRC, that would be a single under the hood and 6 system dedicated batteries, and in these systems we used the OEM alternators usually. The alternator was used as more a charger and the systems were only designed to burp anyway, but we NEVER used this idea of not connecting the system to the car.

Your problem with the OEM alternator is probably not with the fact that the alternator is a particular size, it probably has a low bottom end charge, or more likely you have not installed what many people refer to as the "Big 3 Upgrade", meaning increasing the size of charge lead from teh alternator to teh battery, amd the grounds between the battery and the engine and chassis. No matter how big of an alternator you use with the OEM 10 AWG wire, it will not charge when the current exceeds the capbilities of the wire that is attempting to carry that same current.

I've been playing this car audio game for almost 2 decades now, and been around cars themselves for almost 3 decades, I've seen many ideas come and go, and did way more of my own testing than anyone realizes. I know a thing or two about the automotive electrical system.

I also know that not many people think about all the details that go into making the componets they already have better, or perform better, but making a few simple changes.

[viciousmalibu]

i have been doing this for 7 years man, so i know my shit too, i was just pointing out that you argued with what the actual manufacturing company said about their batteries, and you know what... i am done too, this is a waste of time when all you do is say that everyone is wrong and you are right... not always the case man... in the words of blackjack...lol... go pound sand

[Six Shooter]

i have been doing this for 7 years man, so i know my shit too, i was just pointing out that you argued with what the actual manufacturing company said about their batteries, and you know what... i am done too, this is a waste of time when all you do is say that everyone is wrong and you are right... not always the case man... in the words of blackjack...lol... go pound sand



LOL, believe what you want, I'm just pointing out the reality of it all.

Ask anyone who actually deals WITH batteries and they will all tell you that if a battery does not outgas while charging it is not taking a charge, regardless of construction, in fact I've had Optima reps tell me the same thing, but as I have already stated, the dry cells usually emit so little gas it's considered to "not out gas" because it is below a certain level.

If you want to risk breathing those fumes, go for it, I'd rather spend the extra and use an actual sealed enclosure that is purposly vented to the outside.