electronic air intake???

[AsianAlero]

Has anyone seen or heard of these came across one on ebay and amazon has one also its like $350 says it adds 15-25 hp connects to your intake filter?
Would this actually work. If you google it should come up electronic intake.
Discuss and would it be worth it?

[alerocar01]

not sure exactly what you are talking about but if you are talking about the intake with a fan in it. its a waste of money.

[AGT]

not sure exactly what you are talking about but if you are talking about the intake with a fan in it. its a waste of money.


x2 The eletric fan drains so the car has to work harder to keep charge regulated. big waste. someone wrote an article.

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

putting anything electric onto your throttle body that wasn't supposed to be there is not worth it. the power gain that you get from the extra air is offset by the power needed to recharge the device with the alternator.


edit: okay 3 posts that say the same thing...it's right.

[2fst4u]

http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=16520
please read

[[ion] C2]

Some say these are crap, some say they work. That e-ram one (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/) puts out 1-2PSI, and supposedly is a lot more powerful than a leaf blower (from their videos of comparison). They've got sheets showing improvement in numbers, too. Their FAQ has a lot of information on it, saying supposedly it doesn't draw too much current from the alternator, or require fuel modifications, and actually works. *shrug* Judge it what you will. It looks legitimate to me, but for that price, I won't try it. Free demo maybe, but they're "all out." :blink:

[Ryan from Ohio]

Actually most of these units will hurt your performance, and the reason why isnt touched in this thread so far.

Basically the bilge fan cant produce enough CFM. So your cars intake will be fighting the fan for even more air...

[[ion] C2]

The dyno sheets/videos say different, though.. It looks as if 3x more CFM of air is being forced through than a leaf blower, and the leaf blower provided significant increases on the dynamometer. I'd have to see one in person, though..

[number1alero]

^its simple physics as to why this wouldnt work...and those sheets can easily be forged to sell a gimmick...

i really dont feel like explaining it right now since i got some physics homework and calculus homework to finish up tonight

[[ion] C2]

If something can force air into the intake, providing 1-2 PSI of boost, that means it is providing more air than what the engine is sucking in.. simple physics. If a leaf blower can provide 10HP, then an electric supercharger that puts out almost three times as much CFM must work.

That reminds me, I have a Physics test tomorrow, and AP Calculus homework, too. But I'm just basing this on logic. :)

Actually, here's some more info on the matter from http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/better_20electric_20supercharger:
I own a business that specializes in aftermarket turbos, so I'll share a little of what I know. This might help you out a little. As others have stated, you can't just consider the CFM. That's simply how many cubic feet of air are moved. You have to consider the pressure of that air. A typical factory turbocharger might product between 5 and 10 PSI. Some more aggressive systems run up into the teens. If you look at the electric turbochargers on ebay and such, you will find that most of those are bilge fans for boats. They are incapable of producing any significant increase in pressure. They may flow high volume, but if you tried to get them to flow agains a 1 psi pressure differential, you would get virtually 0 volume. The E-ram seems legit. The motor is strong, and I can believe the 1 PSI claim. That's not nearly as much boost as a real turbo system would get you, but it's worth having. To evaluate their product I bought one. While the idea is good, the build quality is not. E-Ram superchargers are (in my humble opinion) very poorly built. The housing was made of cheap plastic that flexed so much that the fan blades kept hitting the housing. I ordered the one with the dual inline motors, and when it arrived, one of the motors was burnt out. However the motor that did work seemed up to the task of producing one pound of boost on a relatively small engine.

If someone wants to make a real, decent electric supercharger, I think there would be a good market for it, provided you made a decent product. But there is a catch. Contrary to what was said above, there's more to it than upgrading your injectors. If that were the case I'd have a turbo kit out for every car on the market. The powertrain control module of most cars is capable of measuring the air coming into the intake and adjusting the fuel delivery to acheive a proper air to fuel ratio - up to a point. First off, most of them can not sense pressure above atmospheric. That means that as soon as you develop boost, you are puting more air into the engine than it realizes. Second, they can only adjust the fuel curve up to a certain percent. So if you are blowing a whole lot of extra air in there it'll have trouble making it work. Third, the engine isn't that great at getting the air-fuel ratio correct once it's working very far out of the territory for which it was programmed. The best way to do it is to put the turbo on there, run it on a dyno with a wideband O2 sensor and then completely re-program the computer. That's the hard part.

The E-ram skirts around this by producing only one pound of boost. That's not enough to throw the computer way off, but just enough to make a measurable difference. If you could come out with something that produced a solid 3-5 psi then you might have a seriously marketable product with genuine performance potential.

[BlackJack]

C2;256712']Some say these are crap, some say they work. That e-ram one (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/) puts out 1-2PSI, and supposedly is a lot more powerful than a leaf blower (from their videos of comparison). They've got sheets showing improvement in numbers, too. Their FAQ has a lot of information on it, saying supposedly it doesn't draw too much current from the alternator, or require fuel modifications, and actually works. *shrug* Judge it what you will. It looks legitimate to me, but for that price, I won't try it. Free demo maybe, but they're "all out." :blink:

yeah, I can pull up dyno sheets all day long from all over the internet and claim they are from my car.

Can you imagine, if it produces more power than a leaf blower, it must therefore take more electric power than a leaf blower. Why not plug a leaf blower into a converter and plug that into your cig lighter and see how well it works?

Just a thought.

[[ion] C2]

I thought of that, but on the site (which is, of course, now down when ya need it) it said how much it drew from the power source, and it wasn't much.

I'm going to find a powerful fan (more than the ones these e-supercharger places sell) that uses low power and test it out. :p

[strtrydr]

^good luck *laughs*

Dont burn your motor up!

[[ion] C2]

Indeed, they don't seem to sell 12v DC fans that put out enough power under 3 inches in diameter. Oh well.

[strtrydr]

that went totally way over your head ... nevermind

[alerored04]

ion has now officially earned his park bench spoiler.

[clutch1]

Hah, yea. I saw these n thought about building my own as something to do... then realized how loudicrous (sp?) it is.
Seriously, how fast do turbos spin? I don't know for sure but it sticks in my head something like 50,000rpm or so (am I right? I'm not totally up on boost).
Electric motors produce what? Like really good RC brushless I think is around 35,000, tops.
Not to mention that motor couldn't reach top RPM with the fan on it.
And the fan owuldn't be oging fast enough or be big enough to "force" air into the engine like
Put it all together and you have that it doesn't add up.
Perhaps it COULD be possible to run a small amount of boost with an electric "turbo", but the way these ebay knockoff things go about it won't work.

Just my $.2

And if anyone wants to try some physics calcs you could try and figure out how to get it to work and make us all one.. please? :) haha

[alerocar01]

ion has now officially earned his park bench spoiler.
:lol: :lol:

[[ion] C2]

What does this have to do with a spoiler, and why do guys get all horny over fiberglass so much?

I never said these "electric superchargers" caused enough pressure in the intake to compare with a "real" turbocharger or supercharger, not at all. All I was arguing was that the concept in fact WOULD WORK, even though the gain would be small.

Strtrydr, how did that go over my head? You were joking, I got it. Then, on a serious note, I said how I gave up on my search. It's pointless to spend all that money and do all that work for 5-10HP, if it even works. :blink:

[BlackJack]

you want 5-10 hp (or more) for a reasonable price? Try a CAI and DHP PCM, and a good muffler. You'll at least get your money's worth out of it, and I can assure you that you WILL get a gain out of it.

[cherrington17]

ion, the simplest part of this would be, that this "idea" has been around for a really long time. (just think of how long leaf blowers have been around) if it actually work, in a safe manner, don't you think you'd see alot more members with it, or actual car dealers building them into the car?

[[ion] C2]

you want 5-10 hp (or more) for a reasonable price? Try a CAI and DHP PCM, and a good muffler. You'll at least get your money's worth out of it, and I can assure you that you WILL get a gain out of it.
I know this, and performance is the priority from now on for me (see my FQuick), I'm just arguing that this in fact would work.
http://cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23855&page=3&highlight=e-ram
Each e-ram draw 60 amps (1.1hp). They spin their 10 metal blade axial compressor at over 25,000 rpm producing 3lbs of thrust. In free air, they would flow 850cfm. Your engine is trying to draw about 300cfm at full throttle - the difference results in 1.7lbs boost or aprox 11% increase in air density. The trick to getting any hp gains is by adding the appropriate amount of fuel, which is tough if you don't have a map sensor. The maf will only add more fuel when it senses greater air velocity, not density. You could add a stand alone FMU, but it would probably cost more than the e-ram - not recommended!

I didn't really notice a large increase in power when they kicked in until I got my wester's tune. I told them what I had and asked them to add fuel at WOT, which is the only time the e-rams run. Their small, rare-earth motors are overvolted so they only have a 30 second duty cycle.

If you do decide to get an e-ram, be advised that the small relay that they send with the unit is junk. It looks like it a 25-30 amp relay at best!. I ditched the 2 small relays that came with the unit and used a starter relay that I picked up at the local auto parts store.

[[ion] C2]

ion, the simplest part of this would be, that this "idea" has been around for a really long time. (just think of how long leaf blowers have been around) if it actually work, in a safe manner, don't you think you'd see alot more members with it, or actual car dealers building them into the car?

I'm not saying car dealers would be putting them in. They don't put WAIs on stock cars from the factory either. I'm just saying it the concept works, though a SMALL GAIN. Lol, geez.

[BlackJack]

it doesn't work. In my mind, whether something works or not is directly related to cost vs. gain. In that case, it doesn't work. 1-2hp for $350 doesn't work.

[alerored04]

exactly. The reaon i make fun of your spoiler is because this seems like the overly complicated ways to make power that your common clueless honda driver/wannabe "tuner" comes up with. Like blackjack said, $350 for 5-10 hp? While you are at it would you like a $10 resistor for your IAT sensor?

[Redog]

For $350, you can get a nice intake for about $120 and have money left over and still have $230 left over for something else that WILL provide a gain

[[ion] C2]

I UNDERSTAND this. I am solely saying that it would work. I in no way would spend over $300 for a little fan in my intake. I'm just saying that the concept would work. You guys don't seem to get that. If a leaf blower works, then this that puts out even more air than that, MUST work. It's logical. Ambient air sucked in through the intake at around 300CFM. A fan that forces 800CFM into the intake is MORE than the engine sucks in itself. Get it?

[BlackJack]

man, if your engine only sucked in air at 300 CFM, your engine would choke and die. Try doubling that at least. And you should probably read tech articles about it. I've read several engineering sites as a result of your protests that it WILL work, and they all say the same thing. Irregular shapes in the intake path will create pockets of turbulence which counteract positive flow. When you calculate on paper that it SHOULD create 1-2 psi of positive pressure, it actually doesn't, because it takes a much higher ratio of CFM external push versus internal draw in order to generate the HP. Secondly, an electric is not run full time, because it will burn out due to constant use, whereas a pulley driven S/C has power till you run out of gas. When not in use (turned off to conserve it's useable life span) under normal driving conditions, it in turn causes a restriction.

So, with engineers stating that an "800 CFM" electric blower wont do it, I believe them.

Plus, if you note Carbs are manufactured with model numbers that correlate to their CFM capabilities, hence "Holley 850, 1150" etc. I doubt seriously that an automotive engine will survive at a base CFM of 300 under load.

[Redog]

We all know for a fact that an electric fan in the intake can make a front wheel drive Alero do this with no other mods.

http://www.xlmag.gr/main/images/stories/Resize_of_fast-and-furious-drift-party-20060608040218537.jpg

[HazMatt24]

wow, all it takes is an electric fan to turn my car into a rwd that can smoke the tires?

[[ion] C2]

You win. I was basing my argument on others' statements and experience.

[Spilner521]

C2;256860']I UNDERSTAND this. I am solely saying that it would work. I in no way would spend over $300 for a little fan in my intake. I'm just saying that the concept would work. You guys don't seem to get that. If a leaf blower works, then this that puts out even more air than that, MUST work. It's logical. Ambient air sucked in through the intake at around 300CFM. A fan that forces 800CFM into the intake is MORE than the engine sucks in itself. Get it?
See here's the thing about the 1-2psi it supposedly generates and that the ECU will see this and add more fuel....N/A enignes have N/A fuel systems and N/A air flow sensors, whether it be MAF or MAP. They weren't at all designed for ANY boost, not even 1/4 of 1 psi. Any air that is forced in beyond that which is being drawn in by the engine, the stock sensors can't read it. Let's take the MAP sensor for example...it senses air pressure inside the manifold. Since it's a N/A engine, it wasn't designed to see any higher than 14.7 psi...which is atmospheric pressure aka normal outside air. Then let's say you put in this electric supercharger to generate 1-2psi. Even if it does push 1-2psi, the MAP sensor will never see it. It will see a wide open throttle and a 0 vacuum or 14.7 psi atmospheric outside air. So it's providing fuel for 0 psi of boost and you're giving your engine 2 psi of boost....that's how things break. The fact that the company says that the engine will see this and add enough fuel shows that they're full of it.

[Spilner521]

wow, all it takes is an electric fan to turn my car into a rwd that can smoke the tires?
No..all it takes is an electric fan to turn your car into an AWD car turned into a RWD car that can smoke the tires....duh! :lol:

[[ion] C2]

Finally a response that used actual facts rather than attacks. :) Thanks for the information.

[cavaliers60]

I beleive other people were stating some facts too.... you just didn't listen.

[strtrydr]

yea ... lots of people don't listen to the people that know what they are talking about (BlackJack & Spilner.)

[[ion] C2]

Let's see, cavaliers60:

RyanFromOhio said things pertaining to the bad performance from bilge fans. This one was axial.

number1alero didn't elaborate, just claimed physics backed him up.

BlackJack initially spoke of a leaf blower's power consumption drawing from the 12v of the car. Not about the fan they use which uses far less power. Then he went into detail on why the electric fan wouldn't work.

alerored04 decided to just throw out an attack on me.

cherrington17 spoke on speculation.

Spilner521 actually gave technical details on why the concept would not feasibly work.

BlackJack & Spilner521 are the only ones who actually backed up what they claimed (And know what they're talking about). I listened, you apparently did not. I said BlackJack won, that I was only basing my arguments on others words and experiences with the product themselves. They put actual reason behind theirs. You say I didn't listen? I didn't listen to the bullshit people said with no physical/mechanical/scientific base, just their own speculation on the idea. I at least tried to back it up with a logical approach, and quotes of those who've used the product or those who endorse its functionality.

It's done. The gain from the E-Ram is so miniscule, it's not worth the time and money. We found that out here. End of story.

[strtrydr]

haha ... hey man ... settle down and take a chill pill. I was only rationalizing what cavalier60 said. I KNOW that BlackJack knows what he is talking about and that is from first-hand experiences.

[Redog]

People tried to explain and give reasonable proof why it won't work, however it is only the bashing that gets you to see that you are wrong :rolleyes2:

[alerored04]

and i was just tryin to bring a little fun to the thread. But i guess it was beyond you.

[AGT]

C2;257057']Let's see, cavaliers60:

RyanFromOhio said things pertaining to the bad performance from bilge fans. This one was axial.

number1alero didn't elaborate, just claimed physics backed him up.

BlackJack initially spoke of a leaf blower's power consumption drawing from the 12v of the car. Not about the fan they use which uses far less power. Then he went into detail on why the electric fan wouldn't work.

alerored04 decided to just throw out an attack on me.

cherrington17 spoke on speculation.

Spilner521 actually gave technical details on why the concept would not feasibly work.

BlackJack & Spilner521 are the only ones who actually backed up what they claimed (And know what they're talking about). I listened, you apparently did not. I said BlackJack won, that I was only basing my arguments on others words and experiences with the product themselves. They put actual reason behind theirs. You say I didn't listen? I didn't listen to the bullshit people said with no physical/mechanical/scientific base, just their own speculation on the idea. I at least tried to back it up with a logical approach, and quotes of those who've used the product or those who endorse its functionality.

It's done. The gain from the E-Ram is so miniscule, it's not worth the time and money. We found that out here. End of story.


Where's my fucking credit dammit haha :lol:

[BlackJack]

alright, look guys... C2 was having one of those moments we all have at some point. We get an idea into our heads, and it's hard to get it out.

Know how many times I got beat over the head over ideas and perceptions I had? lots. And, yeah, because of my ego, I'd try and fight/argue about it because I didn't want to be wrong.

BUT, I are smarterer now as a wesult of awl dem nice peepol tryi ing to halp me see teh lite.

[alerored04]

yup doneski.

[[ion] C2]

ololz u got it