swapping 2.4 ecotec into 04 alero?

[yoslvr442]

im sure this has been discussed before, but has anyone thought of it?? it looks to be the same basic motor as far as mounting. the difference is the variable valve train, which im sure you can use the correct computer for the motor.

[pawzbear]

2.2l ecotec, darling.

[number1alero]

^theres a 2.4l ecotec in the new cars these days, they did away with the 2.2 for the 2.4, which gave it an extra 37hp on the rating chart, which is what is in the Solstice

http://www.gmtunertour.com/index.asp?section=B592A7DF2B4D41A78CF337DADAFAA851 &page=A5723240BC8C4CD1B4C31FDC66CC75C1

[yoslvr442]

so could it be swapped? anyone?

[ptrudel]

anything can be done with time and money...i'm gonna leave it at that cuz i dont really know anything about the swap

[alero_ecotec]

this is a swap that would definitely be possible, and much easier than putting a northstar v-8 into the alero like some have asked about. If you've got the money I say go for it, I would love to actually see this done.

[Alero2k4]

I am sure that it is a possible swap, but you might as well get the 2l supercharged from the Cobalt IMO.

[Cliff8928]

The 2.2 isn't done away with... yet... However you'd have to do a little modification to the 2.4 to get things to work right. The 2.4 has a different ignition coil setup, you could probably just swap over the valve cover or maybe just the coil assembly from the 2.2. The 2.4 uses VVT (that's where some of that HP comes from). It would be a lot of work to make that happen on an Alero. The system would have to be disabled or removed and possibly need other parts swapped on from the 2.2. I guess you could just use the bottom-end of a 2.4 and just swap on all the other bits from the 2.2 for the easiest situation. I myself would opt for the Saab turbo engine.

[number1alero]

^agreed, the turbo saab version is the best available IMO...ive seen one in person and they are sweet lookin because you have to dig to see the turbo as it is so well hidden behind the engine

[yoslvr442]

i was thinking of the swap plus the supercharger i got. granted itll be a heck of a tune to do but....i might be game!

[alero_ecotec]

wait....supercharger?....the 2.0L is supercharged.....the 2.4 has VVT.......i'm pretty sure that a supercharger off of a 2.0 won't fit on a 2.4

[yoslvr442]

why wouldnt it?? it fits on the 2.2. yeah i know the 2.4 has vvt but the intake manifolds should be the same. It was an idea, i need to actually look at each motor and see what the differences are.

[alero_ecotec]

It's not the mechanics of it i'm worried about. Physically I imagine you could fabricate something to make them work together if need be. But where you're going to have problems is the ECU. You'd have to have something specificaly written for this frankenstein engine. Atleast that's my take on it.

[yoslvr442]

oh i know i do. what about taking an ecm for the vvt and using that instead of the 2.2 one?? i think that would be the best way of doing it. if i were to use the 2.2 there would be a whole lot of tuning issues and the vavle train would be way off.

[jackal2000]

in theory you could use the base file for the 2.4L but replace the fueling tables with the ones from the s/c file (MAP, VE etc) at least thats a start point.

[yoslvr442]

true. maybe it would at least run

[jackal2000]

true. maybe it would at least run
right, and thats the critical part. need the motor to start and run to able to tune it. :)

you could probably copy over all the spark tables too from s/c file too. i think HP Tuners is your only option for tuning software? im not sure where you will get a s/c file from though.

[yoslvr442]

what about the gm reflash or stage 3 computer for the colbalt?? could i take that map?? a colbalt compter wouldnt work would it. even if you could take the maps from that program it still wouldnt incoporate the vvt.

[number1alero]

you probably would have to take the maps from the 2.4l with the VVT for an easier starting point, but thats just my guestimate....

damn i wish i could learn programming these cause its a hella big money source

[alero_ecotec]

yeah, i assume if you did it you'd have to take it from the 2.4......i imagine it would be harder to make the VVT work with a modified 2.0L ECU, than it would be to make the supercharger efficent with VVT and the 2.4L ECU

[Spilner521]

I'm wondering why everyone thinks you need all kinds of special PCM tuning to run boost...

If somehow you got the engine to run, and if somehow you used the 2.4 CAN bus PCM to make the VVT functional, then it would be very easy to throw boost at it. You'd just need some larger injectors, change the injector constant in HPT, or even use a piggyback to control them, throw in an adjustable FMU, tune it up and call it a day. It wouldn't be real hard at all, especially with a supercharger because it's belt driven so there's always going to be the same given boost pressure at the same given RPM. You get the injectors to run through redline, the FMU raises fuel pressure per boost pressure, and you're all set. I'm not a huge fan of FMU's, but that would actually be a pretty decent setup. Of course you'd still need to switch to a cable driven throttle body (instead of the drive-by-wire TB setup) so when you press your gas pedal, the throttle actually opens.

The only thing I can see being a problem would be the ignition timing. Due to the high compression of the 2.4, it wouldn't hurt to have a little retard instead of advance on the top end.

The good news: The 2.4 Eco has the bottom end strength of the 2.0L supercharged Eco, as well as piston oil squirters, factory MLS head gasket, CDI coil-on-plug ignition, heavy duty oiling system, and an oil cooler. Basically, with the exception of the high compression pistons, the engine was built to handle some decent power levels with boost.

It would all be a good idea....if you could get the engine itself to run first....

Oh, and the supercharger will fit any of the Ecotec engines...they all have the same bolt pattern on the heads.

[Cliff8928]

Spliner, you brought up exactly one of the things i was thinking. All the new GM cars are CAN bus. You'll have quite an electronics nightmare because there are SO many things in the Alero controlled by Class 2 which is what CAN replaced, and it's not backwards compatible. So, basically the easiest thing to do is scrap the VVT and individual coil on plug.

[Spilner521]

Spliner, you brought up exactly one of the things i was thinking. All the new GM cars are CAN bus. You'll have quite an electronics nightmare because there are SO many things in the Alero controlled by Class 2 which is what CAN replaced, and it's not backwards compatible. So, basically the easiest thing to do is scrap the VVT and individual coil on plug.
Exactly. You may be able to swap the block and use the 2.2 head and get the extra displacement but you won't get the full power potential of engine without VVT and CDI ignition.

I persolly would rather just build up the 2.2 Eco and turbocharge it...:thumb:

[yoslvr442]

yes you guys were bringing up the concerns i was having. im not really that electricaly inclined as far as the new systems. it does sound like i could figure something out. so you say the 04 alero has a different pcm than that of the 2.4?? (as far as controlling the rest of the car) there isnt a way of extracting the engine data fromt that would there?? then sort of download it to the 2.2 pcm. what type of differences occur between functions of the car in the 2 pcms??

[alero_ecotec]

Well, i can't really give you any hard facts about any of it. I've not looked into the systems of the 2 engines. If you've got the money, and you really wanna do it, and do it right. I would talk with the guys at HP Tuners. I imagine they could be a HUGE help if you were willing to be patient and work with them.