question for subwoofer experts

[white04alero]

hey, im going for sq, and mild spl.. i want it to bump pretty loud, but i want it to be clean, i want 2 subwoofers.. and i listen to rap music

lol after all that.. my q is.. what is the best stuff to go with? i want 2 subs.. should they be 10's or 12's, or even 15's? how many watts would be good.. i dont wanna break my glass or anything so not too loud, im thinkin in the area of 400 watts per sub... any ideas?

[rustyballs_69]

go with 10" and buy my sub!!

[lilfee504]

go with sum memphis sound! its one of the best and also do it with 2 10s. not too loud but loud enuff to hear from a distance without paying too much

[cavaliers60]

and don't just go by watts.. also look at ohms... like get a amp that has 6 ohms and two subs with 3 ohms... something like that... My electronics teacher touched a little on that... saying that would give you really good sound quality or something...

[alerocar01]

the higher the ohms the better the sound quality and lower the ohms the louder they will be.

[antichrysler]

the higher the ohms the better the sound quality and lower the ohms the louder they will be.

Exactly. Also if your planning on playing rap through them I'd say get a couple good 12". My favorite middle of the road brand is phoenix gold. Good bang for the buck.

[number1alero]

^absolutely....the best 3 brands from what I have heard are Phoenix Gold, Memphis, JL...ive heard some Memphis subs and wow were they clean and crisp on rap music. Only problem with memphis is they are not retailed, so you have to pay the shop price unless you find someone dumping their own set on ebay or somethign that have been used

[cavaliers60]

I bought this lightning audio sub and amp and they weren't too bad...

[Ryan from Ohio]

lol

Your looking for SQL my friend. Thats where most people are at. I want it loud, but I want it to sound good.

People, its all in the box!

I got some no name black subs that are crazy cheap, and they work just fine. Actually everyone who has heard it (SPL junkies/competitors) was so very impressed with the sub- of course in the box it was in ;)

Your box plays such a vital role. Take a JL W7, put it in a poopty box= crap sound...

And for what you want. A set of 12's will do ya well. Trouble is, you can kiss most of your trunk goodbye if you want it really loud. A good portion gone if you want it decently loud. Or you can go sealed and have from the spare tire card to the tail lights.

As for wattage, thats all dependent on what subs you do get. A 100 wrms sub with all things equal will be just as loud as a 1000 wrms sub with all things equal outside of thermal handling.

The rms rating is a thermal rating, not some magical number that has to be hit or surpassed...

My advice, pick out some subs first run it by the group then go from there.

Heres some brands I would sugguest looking into and I have contacts for:
www.elevationaudio.com
www.reaudio.com
www.arcaudio.com

[bratch15]

I know Ryan is going to hate me for saying this....but I really like Audiobahn. I have had 4 different systems now and I am very pleased with my subs and amp now. I am running two ohms and the box is crap but they are loud enough. My mirror rattles and it falls down (not off) when I really run the hell out of them. Only thing is your not going to get good mids and high's, but very few rap songs have mids and highs. I think Audiobahn is good for the money.

[cavaliers60]

I'm going to go with a couple pioneers I saw at Wal-Mart....

I might end up just getting one and doing something kinda different from normal sub setups.

[white04alero]

i was thinking infinity...
2-12" infinity reference 1252w subs: 300w rms
amp.. infinity referenct 1600a: 600w rms..
so thats 2- 300w subs at 300w a piece.. box is a q-logic 1.2512DS.. 12" dual sub box..
links:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-554utG3nrL3/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=044H1212DS
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-554utG3nrL3/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=108R1600A
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-554utG3nrL3/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=1081252W

tell me what you think.. specially about the box

[sound_xtreme]

id do a sealed for those subs(since it looks like you're going prefab) myself, but thats me.

[antichrysler]

I'd go for a more powerful amp. Just one thing I noticed is that the amp is a 1 channel. So hooking up the two speakers in serial will mean you can't get your ohms lower than 4, meaning your amp can only output 400W RMS while the subs are 600W RMS. If you go in parallel it'll drop it down to 1 ohm; however the amp doesn't state it supports running at 1 ohm; which means you could potentially have it cut out or damage itself when you crank it up.

So I would either get a beefier amp, or go with single voice coil versions of the same subs. The SVC will be cheaper, and hooked up in serial will give you 8 ohms, or 2 ohms in parallel; which is what the amp is rated for.

I would also go with a sealed box. Ported boxes ARE better, but ONLY when they're tuned for your set-up. Also, if you're listening to rap/hip hop music it tends to have quicker hitting bass notes. Sealed boxes are better for that kind of result. If you're dead set on getting a ported box get it custom made for your subs.

[Ryan from Ohio]

Well ok were getting somewhere.

As mentioned, the amp isnt the best choice for that sub in particular. Here is the one that you need to get the most from that amp:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-R5MtfXRHRrv/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=1081250W


The amp... Im going to shoot that its under rated marginally. Looking at the fuses and the fact its Class D, should give it around an 80-85% efficency factor. If it truly needs 75 amps of pertection, figuring 85% come sup to about 880 WRMS... Maybe it is one Ohm stable. If it is, it explains the power breakdown -> 400wrms/4 Ohms, 600wrms/2 Ohms, 800wrms/ 1 Ohms.


Hey, I forgot to mention TC Sounds. www.tcsounds.com They got some really nice subs for around the same price.

The box is vital...

[sound_xtreme]

amp is NOT 1 ohm stable, and i wouldnt suggest running it at 1 ohm. And I'd say that amp is underrated at all. 600rms at 2 ohms sounds right on par, possibly even higher than what it put out. Just speaking from experience working with that amp a lot.

[white04alero]

but is it a good amp? and would that system bump, given i had the right box.. and is that box a good box? because you can have it sealed or bandpass from what i can tell.. may be wrong tho.. and how much would it be to make my own box.. and what wood is good? 3/4 mdf? and is it silicone to seal them?

[Ryan from Ohio]

3/4 MDF. Silicone works well, so does the about any caulk. Its got one thing it needs to do, seal the air.

I havent had the pleasure of having to mess with one of them infinity amps. Since Joel has, I would take his word on it.

Personally, i would shoot for a JBL amp if your set on Harmon Kardon.

[sound_xtreme]

i guess you could get that box, and put the sealed port cover in

[antichrysler]

I wouldn't seal a ported box. To me it just sounds like a recipe for a rattling box.

But I'd definitely look at a different box. Even with the amp your looking at it'll still bump pretty good.

If you want to have a bit of a learning session I would recommend ordering the speakers, use a program called winISD (just google it) and you can enter the specs of your speakers. The spec sheet should either be on crutchfield or on infinity's web-site. What you want to look at is the frequency response, remember 0dB is without any boost; 60Hz is most of your rap bass. Find a configuration that works for ya and either order a box to that spec or just build one yourself.

Also, if you're looking at ports... make sure you check the delay... the less the delay the quicker the bass!

[whiteliquid]

Power akoustik 12's and amp FTW with ported box

[sound_xtreme]

I wouldn't seal a ported box. To me it just sounds like a recipe for a rattling box.

the box he's looking at has a changable center port/cover. the box can be ported or sealed depending on the cover he uses. it's an ok box for a prefab

[antichrysler]

the box he's looking at has a changable center port/cover. the box can be ported or sealed depending on the cover he uses. it's an ok box for a prefab

I dunno... to me it still sounds like it has potential to start rattling. Especially after he's had it for a while.

[white04alero]

hmm.. well how would i cut out that big 12" hole if i were to make my own box?

[sound_xtreme]

eh they dont really. have had some out on display for over a year and those get abused more than the his would.

[sound_xtreme]

hmm.. well how would i cut out that big 12" hole if i were to make my own box?

i use a rotozip. but a jigsaw would work. im not sure if those subs come with a template or not so you might have to come up with one.

[antichrysler]

hmm.. well how would i cut out that big 12" hole if i were to make my own box?

Most subs come with a template. If they don't then just take a look at the mounting width, use a protractor and draw out a circle. Use a standard drill to make a hole in near the inner edge of the circle, then use a jigsaw to cut it out.

Once that's done try putting the sub in... if it catches on anything use a file to file down the area it's catching and your good to go.

[white04alero]

excellent.. so i should get the single voice coil infinity's and that infinity amp would be good? any other suggestions on brand, size, or watts.. im lookin for about 300-400 watts rms so nothin outrageous plz

[antichrysler]

^ That's what I would do. Building your own box isn't hard. Also, if you want to be lazy what I used to do is go to Home Depot and buy a 4x8 sheet of MDF and make them cut it to the pieces to the size I want before I brought it home. They give you like 3 cuts for free and then it's like $0.90/cut... just pay for the extra 8 cuts and save yourself the hassle.

[white04alero]

i dont know where a home depot is around where i live, do you think lowes would do the same thing?

[HazMatt24]

probably, most stores of that type offer the same services

[sound_xtreme]

i dont know where a home depot is around where i live, do you think lowes would do the same thing?

yep, most lowes have a cutter. not all home depots do though

[white04alero]

will lowes make the hole i need? or would i have to do that myself? and should i get one of those terminals that go on the side? or just stick the wires thru a hole and caulk/silicone it? what about handles? they're not important, but their nice, would they hurt the cubic footage? or sound? or anything? i want this box i build to be nice and to last me.. ya know?

[antichrysler]

I hear ya man. The hole for the speakers you'll still have to cut yourself. As for the terminals on the back, yeah I'd put them in. Those will also require a template, drill, and jigsaw to put in.

[sound_xtreme]

I hear ya man. The hole for the speakers you'll still have to cut yourself. As for the terminals on the back, yeah I'd put them in. Those will also require a template, drill, and jigsaw to put in.

or a properly sized hole saw...

[white04alero]

lol do they even make a 12" hole saw?

edit: yes they do!
http://www.amazon.com/HOLE-PRO-X-305-Adjustable-Cutter/dp/B000G1O8YM

[antichrysler]

lol my way is cheaper..... he could buy a brand new jigsaw and still be at the same price as the holesaw

[QCmustang]

I would not suggest letting lowes cut your wood for you maybe the easier way but my friend tried that once and EVERY CUT wasnt straight. as for a loud sub that sounds good is kicker L7 one 15 takes a 6 cubic foot box one 15 at 2 ohm's with the right size sealed box, and the right amp that can handle the power and still be clean. with the kicker just get a big a** amp and tune it down so its clean and when you go to db drag or what not just turn it up and those suckers can get loud. just my two cents. its your car, your choice. infinity's have awesome sound quality but they just dont get as loud as you want them when you want it.

[sound_xtreme]

lol do they even make a 12" hole saw?

edit: yes they do!
http://www.amazon.com/HOLE-PRO-X-305-Adjustable-Cutter/dp/B000G1O8YM


actually i was talkin bout just the terminals, but ya they do make a 12" hole saw. proly take 2 years to cut through with a drill tho.

[Ryan from Ohio]

Problem with lowes and the like are two fold.

First off and the largest, half the people their cant read a tape measure. They are also to proud to admit such a thing. So if you try to correct them, they will just kinda go about their business... lol

Secondly. The saws usually arent square. They usually square them once a few years.

I had them cut some strips early last summer so it would fit in the car. They were off 3/16" over the 49"

[antichrysler]

lol I've never even been to a lowes. I recommend home depot. i worked at one a few years ago and they're just an all around good company.

The one here is accurate to 1/64", way more than any saw I could afford.

[white04alero]

and on building my own box, would i need that stuffing that goes inside the box, that looks like the shit that fake spider webs are made of during halloween? i think its called polyfill

[Gr1m]

rofl...you mean fiberglass?
words of advice, from what you said, dont make your own box

[FrankTheTank]

rofl...you mean fiberglass?
words of advice, from what you said, dont make your own box
pretty sure he is asking about polyfill. its used to make the woofer perform like it is in a larger enclosure than it actually is.
no, you wont need it.

[HazMatt24]

I didn't think they still used that stuff, I thought most boxes now were just based on airspace instead of using the filling to create a larger sound

[antichrysler]

I usually use that foam padding stuff. I'm not sure how to describe it... It usually comes with hard drives... I'll see if i can find a picture

[Ryan from Ohio]

Fiberglass to stuff a box? lol No way!

Polly fill, pillow stuff, whatever you want to call it.

It can be used if need be. Theres nothing wrong with using it either. You just need to know how to use it.

[HazMatt24]

I think he was referring to that fiberglass insulation they use in houses, I've seen that done before as fill

[white04alero]

and on building my own box, would i need that stuffing that goes inside the box, that looks like the shit that fake spider webs are made of during halloween? i think its called polyfill


i dont know where you guys got fiberglass.. i never said it..
im talking about that pillow stuffing stuff..would it be beneficial?

[Ryan from Ohio]

Yes it is, if you need it. You dont add it to just add it.

You dont add nitrous to your 87 grade gas do ya?

[bratch15]

Alot of people just stuff there box with cotton. I never had any trouble with cotton sticking to the subs and it works good for the $1 you pay for a bag of cotton. You just have to make sure you fluff the cotton and not pack it. Anyone else use this trick?

[white04alero]

lol ok let me rephrase.. why would i need the cotton crap

[sound_xtreme]

you dont unless you need more space than you can provide with a box.

[white04alero]

ah i see.. thanks

[Ryan from Ohio]

cotton?

The $3 bag of pollyfill to much for ya? :p

[QCmustang]

all i have to say is one sub in the right spec box and you will be suprised at the outcome. almost every premade box out there is too small. just so you know.

[white04alero]

hey.. qc mustang.. thanks for the advice, and not to be dumb or anything, but
1996 Ford mustang 232ci V6. sold!

1991 Ford mustang LX Vert.:yahoo:

1995 pontiac bonneville.

do you even have an alero haha?

[sofa]

i think it works out to be a foot of polyfil = 1 cuft of space gained. thats if i remember correctly.

[QCmustang]

hey.. qc mustang.. thanks for the advice, and not to be dumb or anything, but
1996 Ford mustang 232ci V6. sold!

1991 Ford mustang LX Vert.:yahoo:

1995 pontiac bonneville.

do you even have an alero haha?

ha, sorry no i dont, im good friends with nosweat. but im open for everything and always looking for new idea's in different places so i decided to join. thanks for the observation tho.

[Ryan from Ohio]

i think it works out to be a foot of polyfil = 1 cuft of space gained. thats if i remember correctly.

There was actually a good study done on this, i wish i could find the link. Basicly, up to 30% gain with 1.5lbs of pollyfill per 1 cubic ft UNDER 3 cubes. Anything over 3 cubes and best results were 1lb of pollyfill per 1 cubic ft OVER 3 cubes (offering i think up to 25% increase). It might have been more or less, but 1.5lbs per 1 cube was found to offer the most gain.

[white04alero]

ok, i dont mean to keep a dead thread alive, but i helped install a powerbass sub tonite in a buddy's car, and i was wondering what kind of quality they have, and what about power acoustik? im really interested in getting the most out of my money, i know alot of you said that memphis audio was good, but what about powerbass and power acoustik.

[icpurplepplalot]

whats your price range ur willing to spend and I can help you out. Power acoustik is ok for budget, but there are many others that are around the same price and better. Same with pb, but they do actually have some nice subs.

[white04alero]

probably another 400 bucks not including box. so.. 400 for amp and 2 subs

[Steck69]

I wouldn't seal a ported box. To me it just sounds like a recipe for a rattling box.

But I'd definitely look at a different box. Even with the amp your looking at it'll still bump pretty good.

If you want to have a bit of a learning session I would recommend ordering the speakers, use a program called winISD (just google it) and you can enter the specs of your speakers. The spec sheet should either be on crutchfield or on infinity's web-site. What you want to look at is the frequency response, remember 0dB is without any boost; 60Hz is most of your rap bass. Find a configuration that works for ya and either order a box to that spec or just build one yourself.

Also, if you're looking at ports... make sure you check the delay... the less the delay the quicker the bass!

60 hz. is rap bass. what kinda rap do you listen to? club rap? rap has low hz. in most songs, thats why people tune low, like 35-37 hz. to get the lows that most rap has, low hz. is also good for bass travel. but rap isnt in that high of a tone range, maybe some songs but not most, i dont like fart noise bass like that, i like the lows, but thats just me.

[QCmustang]

for rap its good to tune around 32-37 hz for rock and roll its better to tune around 40-45 hz.

[Ryan from Ohio]

Who says whats frequency is good for what music? :lol:

Who is to say your subwoofers Fs is lower than 32 Hz? Its possible...

What about roll off?

Sure, tune your stuff 42+ Hz. Watch them subs unload on anything much below 36 Hz... Blow them babies up...

Its more than just picking a number. You need to know the issues behind the frequency you are choosing. You also need to know the consequences, which many people lack. If you tune high, you BETTER have a subsonic filter!