very disapointed....

[blueolds01]

okay so tonight i went to dragway 42...one of the local drag strips. i ran 4 times.

1)16.3098@85.53mph w/2.4169 60ft.
2)16.4280@85.27mph w/2.5149 60ft.
3)16.3248@83.38mph w/2.4449 60ft.
4)16.6317@83.37mph w/2.4940 60ft.

about 2 months ago i ran at norwalk and ran twice

1)16.293@84.44mph
2)16.338@85.34mph

i dont know what to think of this...i have 80k on the car. i thought alero's were suposed to run high 15's stock. i was lauching at about 2k rpm. should i try somthing else next time? tell me what you guys think.

[blueolds01]

think the dhp would help much?

[01silveralero]

okay so tonight i went to dragway 42...one of the local drag strips. i ran 4 times.

1)16.3098@85.53mph w/2.4169 60ft.
2)16.4280@85.27mph w/2.5149 60ft.
3)16.3248@83.38mph w/2.4449 60ft.
4)16.6317@83.37mph w/2.4940 60ft.

about 2 months ago i ran at norwalk and ran twice

1)16.293@84.44mph
2)16.338@85.34mph

i dont know what to think of this...i have 80k on the car. i thought alero's were suposed to run high 15's stock. i was lauching at about 2k rpm. should i try somthing else next time? tell me what you guys think.


track prep sucked? if i had catback would have maybe 14.6

[blueolds01]

track prep sucked? if i had catback would have maybe 14.6

track prep...what do you mean...the burnout...?

[Mischief007]

Launch at idle as well. No point revving the car up.

[blueolds01]

so its gotta be in the start....maybe ill go again next tuesday... this makes me mad.

[[ion] C2]

track prep as in the gripping compound they lay on the track so you don't spin your wheels as you take off. did you have any wheelspin off the line?

[Daytona]

Yeah, your idle was WAY too high at launch, especially if it's an automatic. Our convertors flash at @ 1600-1700 RPM. By launching higher than that you are working against the convertor and it will result in slower ET's and trans trouble (just ask Redog about that).

Lower your front tire pressure a little (28 psi) and launch - regardless of manual or auto trans - at around 1400. Much more consistent launches and qicker ET's.

Your car could also be slower because of all of the mileage on the car. If it's all casual highway miles it'll wear differently (and more slowly) than hard driving in and around town. Plus keep all excess weight out of the car (60 CD's and a 10-CD changer in the trunk or massive speakers in the back, will add serious weight which slows cars down).

[[ion] C2]

1400RPM eh? I thouht it was 2200, that's what I launched at last time I went and got terrible times. I'm going tonight so I'll take that into consideration and do a 1400-1600 launch. Also will have pressure around 28PSI. Will also have passenger/rear seats out, spare tire/jack, and it will be around 67 degrees and I'll be icing down the intake/supercharger before I run.

[Daytona]

No need to remove the seats, etc. unless you really want to.

And the trick behind auto trans launches is "banging the convertor", meaning launching a few hundreds lower RPM than the convertor is set for so that you aren't overpowering the convertor (higher than the convertor) or winding it out too long (ultra low RPM launch). It's more efficient & effective this way.

Ronnie who works the lanes at RP on Sundays taught me that trick years ago. He's an accomplished & respected NHRA Stock Eliminator racer and hasn't steered me wrong yet.

Redog used to launch way too high and ended up hurting his trans. Once he follwed my (Ron's) advice his ET's dropped significantly and his launches were much more consistent.

[[ion] C2]

No need to remove the seats, etc. unless you really want to.

i thought we want the least weight possible, and that the seats are somewhat heavy

[Daytona]

True. I guess I misunderstood your intention. When I normally refer to "removing as much weight as possible" I am usually meaning to drive the car factory-clean - meaning leave in seats, jacks, etc. and remove all superfluous jackets, CD's, books, etc.

If you do decide to remove everything else (or as much else as you can), remember that typically 100 lbs. = 0.1 seconds. Remove 175 lbs from the car and it should reduce your ETs by 0.175 seconds. I emphasis 'should' because where in the car you reduce weight makes a big difference. In our FWD cars you'd want to keep as much weight over the front tires by removing center & rear weight. Removing front weight certainly does help but if you remove too much from the front relative to the rest of the car's weight reductions you could make it harder for the tires to grip at launch. Don't know a good formula for you to determine how much is too much in the front. You'll need to figure that one out by trial and error.

One area most people forget is the gas tank. For FWD cars you'd want 1/4 tank or less in there for 2 reasons:
1) More gas = more weight, more gas weight = the greater the rear weight bias in the car (vs. the front). Plus when the gas swooshes in the tank under acceleration it pushes to the back, fourther accentuating the bias off the front tires as they try to grip.
2) it's lighter

[[ion] C2]

Gotcha. I'll have 1/4 tank by the time I get there. Most all the weight I'm taking out is from the rear, so that's good. The weight of the s/c also adds more to the drive wheels. Wish meh luck, lookin for 14.99 or less.

[Daytona]

Good luck!

Also, most tracks have a weight scale somewhere near the return road. Try to weigh it if you can and then report the weight here - both with and without driver. That'll help us gauge the car for you.

[blueolds01]

when i ran i took everything but the subs out...they weigh 50 maybe 60 pounds...i guess i should've taken em out. this car owned by a girl before me and she drove highway...and the funny thing is i got my lowest time with some else in the car at norwalk....lol. non of this is making sense, i lowered tire pressure, there was only a 1/4 tank of gas...is it me or the car?

[Daytona]

Subs in the back are going to make a big difference as I've said before. Is your car a stick or auto? And what are you (or the car, if it's an auto & you left it to shift on it's own) shifting at @ each gear change?

There's a sticky on how to get the quickest ETs but a few quick points for you, assuming it's an auto trans:
1) Run the car in 3rd gear, NOT Drive or O/D.
2) Watch where the car wants to shift at Wide-Open Throttle (WOT) during this run.
3) Next run, manually shift 200 RPM above this.
4) Next next run shift 400 RPM above Auto WOT Shifts and see if this further increases or decreases ET from runs 1 and 2.
For bracket racing where consistency is more important than speed I always leave my car in 3rd and let it shift on its own. It'll be .25 - .4 secs quicker than leaving it in "D" or "O/D" because of pressure points in the trans. Manually shifting it I can pick up an additional couple of tenths but prefer the greater consistency of the car shifting on its own.

Also, make sure the transmission has had time to cool down between runs. It takes the trans longer to cool than the engine, believe it or not, because although it doesn't get as hot as the engine there's no fan to cool the trans fluid like there is radiator for the engine. The cooler the trans the better your ETs, all else remaining equal.

[Redog]

16.3 is actually in range for a totally stock 3400 Alero.

Lauching at 2200 RPM's really doesn't help and kills the tranny. I blew a chuck off my tranny and it cost me $2 grand to fix.

Lower tire pressure to 28 ~ 25, lauch at 1000, do a decent burnout nothing too big but do it in 2nd gear. Drive the track in 3rd gear.

If you have an intake, remove the driver's side headlight for better airflow, but only if you have an intake.

The DHP will not help you much. It's one of those things that benfits you if you have a few mods. Intake and exhaust is always a good start.

Dump the spare, jack and your sub, run with 1/4 tank or less

[blueolds01]

the most taking the subs out would do is drop it something like .075...
the car shifts at about 5600 rpm, an auto, v6's never came in a 5 speed.
ran in 3rd
the car red lines at 6...isnt it kinda unsafe to manually shift it, i heard that doesnt help at all.
letting it cool longer im sure would help, i didnt let it cool long, i was kinda short on time.

[blueolds01]

16.3 is actually in range for a totally stock 3400 Alero.

Lauching at 2200 RPM's really doesn't help and kills the tranny. I blew a chuck off my tranny and it cost me $2 grand to fix.

Lower tire pressure to 28 ~ 25, lauch at 1000, do a decent burnout nothing too big but do it in 2nd gear. Drive the track in 3rd gear.

If you have an intake, remove the driver's side headlight for better airflow, but only if you have an intake.

The DHP will not help you much. It's one of those things that benfits you if you have a few mods. Intake and exhaust is always a good start.

Dump the spare, jack and your sub, run with 1/4 tank or less

i have a 2.5" cat-back w/dual 40's and a wai. i just put on some kyb's (traction) and its got new plugs and wires....i acctually removed the headlight for the 2nd run...look were it got me.

[Daytona]

the most taking the subs out would do is drop it something like .075...
the car shifts at about 5600 rpm, an auto, v6's never came in a 5 speed.
ran in 3rd
the car red lines at 6...isnt it kinda unsafe to manually shift it, i heard that doesnt help at all.
letting it cool longer im sure would help, i didnt let it cool long, i was kinda short on time.

It's only unsafe to manually shift it if you overrev the engine or you accidentally shift too hard and it goes into Neutral or Reverse at WOT. It does help a little to manually shift depending on the set-up. That's why I recommended small increments above WOT shift points.

The sensors in the trans are a bit tricky for our cars. In heavier rush hour stop-and-speed-up-and-stop-again traffic I noticed the car becoming more and more sluggish with the throttle response. The trans heats up and it slows the car down.

The engine might have been too hot as well from the sound of things. I always try to leave enough time between when I get to the track and when I have to make my first time shot. At least 30-45 minutes for my cars. Then once everything's cooled down and I pull into the lanes I begin to warm the engine back up with the car in park. My temp gauge in the Daytona is separated into 3 sections with a bottom line, top line, and 2 middle lines. The 2nd highest line is normal 195-degrees (I think). I always try to run it with the temp needle at the 2nd lowest ("1st middle") line. It'll be warm enough to run consistently but not too warm where it'll slow down.

[[ion] C2]

Everywhere, everywhere I've read/heard, manually shifting an automatic will do NOTHING to help your times. The computer can shift much faster than you can, and if you manually shift you risk hitting the limiter, totally destroying your times. If the limiter is set at 6200, as it is, and the computer shifts are 6200, that's the best you can get. Also 3 or D did nothing for me last time I was at the track. I leave it in D.


Tonight I went to the drag strip with my buddy and his Camaro. When we got there they closed the track 10 mins ago due to the light rain. -_- We still found out that I completely smoke his Camaro... >_> Anyways I'll be out to get some real numbers at Friday King of Street (Test & Tune plus Import vs. Domestic racing later on)

[Daytona]

The difference between 3 and D is significant. If you did not notice anything then you were not consistent in your launches or something else negated the difference because it is proven on all types of vehicles that there is a noticeable difference between the 2. For some vehicles it's more significant than others but there is a difference.

As for shifting vs. not shifting, auto transmissions are most commonly set up from the factory to run just shy of peak (if set up correctly) in order to minimize the chance of overstressing the trans and related components. We've all known stock vehicles that are purposely detuned by the factory to protect parts or get that insurance premium exemption. Is it better to leave it in 3rd vs. shifting? Only in the fact that you'll be a lot more consistent in your ETs by letting the car shift. Some trans have adjustable governors to allow you to fine-tune the shift points.

And if you put in a shift kit in the trans your car will be even quicker and just as consistent. Plus shift kits have the added bonus of shifting into the next gear quicker and with less stress on the trans as it doesnt stay at the top of a gear as long.

And I forgot to ask before but are your rims stock or aftermarket? Aftermarket rims, if meant for looks and not performance, are usually heavier than stock and that added spinning weight will slow down the car. It's not the weight similar to weight of something in your trunk but SPINNING WEIGHT. Sure there's the absolute weight difference (14 lbs. vs. 8 lbs., for instance) which matters, but spinning weight magnifies the effect of the added weight.

[blueolds01]

15.7@87mph w/2.34 60'!!! finally 15's. launched at 1000rpm, 60 out, no burnout. THANKS GUYS!

[[ion] C2]

I'm going next Wednesday, supposed to be 50 out. I'll do most of my runs in 3, then.

[Spilner521]

C2;305215']Everywhere, everywhere I've read/heard, manually shifting an automatic will do NOTHING to help your times. The computer can shift much faster than you can, and if you manually shift you risk hitting the limiter, totally destroying your times. If the limiter is set at 6200, as it is, and the computer shifts are 6200, that's the best you can get. Also 3 or D did nothing for me last time I was at the track. I leave it in D.
These guys are talking about V6's. You have a 4 cylinder. That means your converter stalls at 2200-2300 rpms, not 1700 like theirs. Also, the transmission on the 4 cylinders shift at the 6500rpm redline everytime except going into 4th, but since you'll never reach 4th in a quarer mile at WOT, manual shifting above redline would be bad. As for leaving it in 3, it might be a good idea. Give it a try and see how it does, and launch at 2000-2200ish.

[[ion] C2]

Haha, I'm a dumbass. I thought I read 2200 for the stock convertor on the 4t40e somewhere. So on the launch, I should hold the revs at 2200 RPM, when I leave, I let off the brake but keep the throttle at its previous position until I start moving then lay it to the floor. (To maintain traction, I think that will work) Last time I was at the track I revved to 1600 RPM then as soon as the 3rd amber hit I let off the brake and laid it down to the floor almost instantly. Hence wheel hoppin madness

[Spilner521]

C2;308587']Haha, I'm a dumbass. I thought I read 2200 for the stock convertor on the 4t40e somewhere. So on the launch, I should hold the revs at 2200 RPM, when I leave, I let off the brake but keep the throttle at its previous position until I start moving then lay it to the floor. (To maintain traction, I think that will work) Last time I was at the track I revved to 1600 RPM then as soon as the 3rd amber hit I let off the brake and laid it down to the floor almost instantly. Hence wheel hoppin madness
Yeah hold it around 2200, then let off the brake and slowly put your right foot to the floor instead of immediately mashing the gas. It'll catch traction and take off like a rocket. It's the same way I launch mine and it's ridiculous how hard you can launch, and how quickly you take off. If you immediately mash the gas, you get wheel spin and, like you said, wheel hop, which are both bad if you're trying to run a quick quarter mile.

[01silveralero]

16.3 is actually in range for a totally stock 3400 Alero.

Lauching at 2200 RPM's really doesn't help and kills the tranny. I blew a chuck off my tranny and it cost me $2 grand to fix.

Lower tire pressure to 28 ~ 25, lauch at 1000, do a decent burnout nothing too big but do it in 2nd gear. Drive the track in 3rd gear.

If you have an intake, remove the driver's side headlight for better airflow, but only if you have an intake.

The DHP will not help you much. It's one of those things that benfits you if you have a few mods. Intake and exhaust is always a good start.

Dump the spare, jack and your sub, run with 1/4 tank or less

ill admit this only time i ever ran 16.3 was with no third gear :)

[blueolds01]

ill admit this only time i ever ran 16.3 was with no third gear :)

theres a confidence booster!

your trap speed was 87mph just like mine, if i got a better 60' could i get into low 15's?

[Daytona]

15.7@87mph w/2.34 60'!!! finally 15's. launched at 1000rpm, 60 out, no burnout. THANKS GUYS!

Congrats!!!

These guys are talking about V6's. You have a 4 cylinder. That means your converter stalls at 2200-2300 rpms, not 1700 like theirs. Also, the transmission on the 4 cylinders shift at the 6500rpm redline everytime except going into 4th, but since you'll never reach 4th in a quarer mile at WOT, manual shifting above redline would be bad. As for leaving it in 3, it might be a good idea. Give it a try and see how it does, and launch at 2000-2200ish.

You are correct.

[adam45356]

Ok this is weired but i live in Ohio i had a short ram intake perforce plugs and wires my car whoud run a 16.5 i put that stock intake back on with a k7n drop in and i can run 15.22 all day now. the aftermarket intake made my car significantly slower, with the intake it couldest even chirp the tires stock intake it will turn them to liquid. can this be explained?

[blueolds01]

wow, what was the temp out side when you were racing both days? i might have to put my stock intake on in the spring....

[Alon Alero]

That is weird. I hope my filter doesn't slow me as well...

[Daytona]

Ok this is weired but i live in Ohio i had a short ram intake perforce plugs and wires my car whoud run a 16.5 i put that stock intake back on with a k7n drop in and i can run 15.22 all day now. the aftermarket intake made my car significantly slower, with the intake it couldest even chirp the tires stock intake it will turn them to liquid. can this be explained?

Could be 1 of 2 things:

1) Not sure what ram intake you used but it's possible that you are drawing in more engine-heated air than colder exteiror air with it. That'll certainly slow you down.

2) You could have had bad plugs or wires, or your plugs weren't gapped right.

[Alon Alero]

Could be 1 of 2 things:

1) Not sure what ram intake you used but it's possible that you are drawing in more engine-heated air than colder exteiror air with it. That'll certainly slow you down.

2) You could have had bad plugs or wires, or your plugs weren't gapped right.

So a Wai does slow u down or not?

I have the filter sitting very close to where the original box was sitting. is that bad? (on the 3400 engine)

And which plugs are u talking about?

[[ion] C2]

It shouldn't..

[Daytona]

Saw your filter pics. In regards to your WAI set-up, what Redog and xbxradxsx vbmenu_register("postmenu_320818", true); said about your set-up is correct. You don't get the full benefits of WAI with your current set-up, but should be okay for now and shouldn't be slowing you down (barring any other issues internally with your MAF sensor or other intake internals).

With Adam's set-up, there could have been a problem with a minor gap in the piping (due to improper fit) or an obstruction internally within his set-up.

As for your plugs, I'm referring to your spark plugs. You should remove them one at a time and check the spark point on each to make sure they look clean - not too black, not too white. If they are black or white your engine is experiencing too rich or too lean a setting and needs to be retuned. Also use a gap gauge to check and make sure the gap spacing is correct on all 6 of the plugs. I don't recall the exact gap requirement for our car (anyone? Redog?) but incorrect sizing can create problems with you not getting enough spark to a cylinder.

As for Adam's car, now that I went back and reread the whole thread, plugs are definitely not his problem. Not sure I thought at first that it could be. His issue is definitely with a leak or obstruction in his "performance set-up" or his drawing too hot an air mix relative to his stock set-up.

[Redog]

I believe the correct gap is .060

[adam45356]

i found that the problem is that the pipe that connects to the throttle body is round and the tb is oval, now my question if i buy the doctor speed intake is it oval to match the throttle body

[[ion] C2]

umm.. no.. that's why one uses silicone couplers, which form to the shape of the two pieces you connect. the fact that the throttle body is slighly oblong should not cause ANY noticeable problems.

[adam45356]

Thats weired then maby it was because i made the intake from a universal kit and that coupler didnt seem to fit very well perhaps it because it was not specificly designed for the car, would i be good if i put the dr speed cai on my car?