Test drive after 4t65 swap....

[BlackJack]

alright, I got it running, imported the GTP transmission files to my Alero PCM, and we're off and running.

All I have to say is.....when I was at 10psi with the stock 4t45, it felt like the trans was on the ragged edge.

With the stock 4t65 in there, at 12+ psi, the trans is acting like "Is that all ya got?"

Needless to say, I am VERY pleased with the outcome. I'm not too keen on the factory 4t65 settings for downshift at part throttle, but I still have some tweaking to do and all will be perfect.

[Midgear]

woot! more videos.

first post- :coolio:

[Satsuriku]

awesome dude!! glad it turned out ok!! keep it going

[Redog]

How was fitting it into place? :cool:

[BlackJack]

How was fitting it into place? :cool:

Lets put it this way. The world isn't quite ready for a bolt-in kit yet. Most people aren't going to want solid mount for daily driving, and doing this with bushings is definitely going to be a feat. But otherwise, no cutting or screwing with the stock body/frame.

I can hook up the wiring for a bolt-in application clean and simple, but the end user would have to have a method of having their PCM programmed for it (HPT or DHP) because the shift parameters are different, as are the gear ratios, etc.

[Spilner521]

Video :thumb:

[[ion] C2]

Video.

[TurboAleroGT40]

How much and were i need to pay, interested to make my stick shift to a auto again lol. The clutch that I have is killing me!!!
Not something to put in your car for a weekend drive lol

[BlackJack]

how much and where you need to pay for what?

[Trickyslick]

Sound snice BJ. Would love to see it got for a run when you are ready.

[BlackJack]

Interestingly, I'll be at SIR dragstrip this coming Friday night.

[Spilner521]

Interestingly, I'll be at SIR dragstrip this coming Friday night.
^^Once again, video :thumb: especially at the track.

[[ion] C2]

VIDEO OF RUN IS NECESSARY.

Pay someone to video it if you have to. Lol.

[BigStribS]

How much and were i need to pay, interested to make my stick shift to a auto again lol. The clutch that I have is killing me!!!
Not something to put in your car for a weekend drive lol

Get ahold of MilzyZ34 from Milzy Motorsports!! His email is mikem@milzymotorsports.com if you want to do this!

[BlackJack]

HOLY SHIT....hahahaha....

1. Half-assed tune
2. only a little over 3/4 throttle
3. possibly a MINOR variation to response time of device....

Zero to 60 time was just around 4.8 seconds

Just wait until I get this sucker tuned all the way :D

[jackal2000]

zero to 60ft in 4.8 seconds? holy slowpoke batman. :p

[BlackJack]

yeah, I know....car needs to go on a diet. I weighed it in at the track before turbo, and before 4t65 swap, and with driver was around 3600. I estimate about a 100 pound gain since then.

Lets see, I could chuck the spare tire, jack, all the extra parts in my trunk, etc. Might be able to get 1/10th quicker.

OR, I could just finish tuning it, quit fucking around and go WOT.

[billytheman1188]

All i can say is........................... video.

[Oldsnut]

All i can say is........................... video.
Ditto

[Vinalero]

Holy Molly! ! ! 0-60 in 4.8?! with around 3700 car? thats its verry verry niche!

[Spilner521]

zero to 60ft in 4.8 seconds? holy slowpoke batman. :p
I think he meant 0-60mph. I could run a 4.8 60ft. time on foot.

[jackal2000]

I think he meant 0-60mph. I could run a 4.8 60ft. time on foot.

no kidding. :banghead: i was just giving him shit, you didn't pick up on it.


so you have a 8.6 second 40 yard dash time? :blink:

[Daytona]

Weight's a bitch. My old Camaro was 3,950 lbs. (race weight with driver) before I swapped in the 2nd race motor with more aluminum parts. Saved me 100 lbs. Heaviest year Camaro ever built (1977). Took 400 hp, over 400' lbs. torque, and 4.10 gears to drop that puppy into the 12.40's at the track (1.77 60').

A lot of weight can be saved by removing sound deadening material in the car and putting on lighter weight rims (Convo Pro's are the lightest and still as durable as our stock rims) to reduce spinning weight.

[BlackJack]

A lot of weight can be saved by removing sound deadening material in the car and putting on lighter weight rims (Convo Pro's are the lightest and still as durable as our stock rims) to reduce spinning weight.

Yeah, that would be cool to remove all the mat and carpet, etc. Unfortunately, my short-term goal is to hit low 12's without stripping anything out.

A source has a lead for me on some Weld Drag-lites (or Drag-star?). If I can get him to contact me about it, I'm buying them soon.

[Alon Alero]

yeah, I know....car needs to go on a diet. I weighed it in at the track before turbo, and before 4t65 swap, and with driver was around 3600. I estimate about a 100 pound gain since then.

Lets see, I could chuck the spare tire, jack, all the extra parts in my trunk, etc. Might be able to get 1/10th quicker.

OR, I could just finish tuning it, quit effing around and go WOT.

Get everything u can out of the car when going to the track, even the ashtray. Hell, i even take my Cd's out (and i only have 4-5 of them in the car).

[Trickyslick]

Hey BJ give me a call. I live in Sahuarita just around the corner from SIR let me know what time friday

[BlackJack]

according to the Racer Info, pit gates open at 4pm, and spectator gates open at 6pm.

Now erase your phone number, I've got it stored.

[Midgear]

i think my car goes 0 - 60 in about 6.8 - 7 seconds.. with a bit of wheel spin.. i want my traction control back :cry:

VIDEOS OR DEATH!! O_o

[Trickyslick]

Well I did talk to the little lady and we are going to try and make it Friday so hope to see you there.

[BlackJack]

Still planning to go. Racer/Pit entry starts at 4pm, spectators are let in at 6pm.

Due to other family events, I probably will not arrive until 7pm, but tech inspection closes at 8pm, so I'll be cutting it close.

[[ion] C2]

No excuses. You get there and run no matter what.

Take out the passenger seat and rear seats too, for the hell of it. About 50lbs total I'm guessing, since my replacement racing seats weigh 35 and stockers are supposed to be heavier.

[BlackJack]

Can't strip the car down. I'm specifically gunning for the "$50 Challenge" which calls for NHRA Sport Compact rules, which to paraphrase calls for a complete front seat area in the passenger compartment. I can strip out the back seat area, but that's about it.

[[ion] C2]

Ah. Good luck.

[BlackJack]

Thanks bro.

[Trickyslick]

Okay then we will be there about 7ish. Dont forget your video camera.

[BlackJack]

do you have one you can bring too?

In case something goes wrong with mine, I can at least have back-up video.

[Trickyslick]

I will have to bust it out. I have one but I am having issues getting it to work on my MAC at home.

[CharleyO99Alero]

***

Good Luck, BlackJack! :)


***

[Oldsnut]

Hammer Down and GOOD LUCK guys!!! I just got chills down my spine, it will be good this weekend guys. Positive waves your way.

[BlackJack]

Thanks. I'm not expecting miracles, but would sure be nice :D

[Oldsnut]

Thanks. I'm not expecting miracles, but would sure be nice :D
I can't wait to see the video of you after your success. Anyone ever see a big dude in the military wet himself? I think you'll see a hat in front of BJ's nads. :lol:

[BlackJack]

ok, THERE's an image I didn't need :D

[Oldsnut]

ok, THERE's an image I didn't need :D

:lol: :lol: :lol: :D I couldn't resist BJ. Can't wait to see the vid, of the race that is.

[jackal2000]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :D I couldn't resist BJ. Can't wait to see the vid, of BJ's nads that is.

fixed.


good luck mike!

[strtrydr]

Mike ... I should be off in time to hit the road and get to SIR before 7pm ... and I might be able to get a hold of another Video Camera.

Let me know manand I definitely cant wait to see this go down :)

[BlackJack]

I'll definitely need backup video...thanks guys....will see you all there.

[Spilner521]

So what's the verdict? How'd that beast of yours run?

[[ion] C2]

Yeah what happened and where's the video?

[strtrydr]

BlackJack called it off last night ... he wanted to double check everything before he decided to go balls to the wall.

Sorry Guys :(

[[ion] C2]

Fucking lame as hell. I knew this would happen.

[strtrydr]

Hey ... give him some slack man ... its not like you have an extreme amount of money tied up in your engine. If you had a lot of money tied up, and i mean like 2-3k or more, invested would you want to do something "half-ass" and risk blowing up the motor ... or would you rather take your time and make sure everything is running perfectly so you can drop the hammer and pretty much know that everything will be good.

[[ion] C2]

I just really want to see it run, lol.

[Oldsnut]

C2;343974']effing lame as hell. I knew this would happen.
Wow dude, relax. It's not your car, engine, time or money that will go down the tubes if something is wrong.

Wise move on BJ's part if he's not sure. Keep us updated.

[BlackJack]

yeah, I could have gone.....and probably towed it home. Sorry about that guys.

Here's all the details and problems that caused me to call it off:

Wednesday morning, I dropped the car off at a local performance shop because there were some things that needed finalizing and I wouldn't have time to work on it. 5 little things and one big thing. They had all day thursday to get it handled, but apparently they were too busy and didn't get any of it done then. Thursday night I discovered I would have to spend all day Friday wrenching instead of tuning, and I had taken the day off Friday just to tune and hit the track.

With no time left to tune, I wouldn't risk trying to make a run. Boosted setups are very finicky, and there is too much time and effort invested to blow it to pieces.

Next open night is possibly the 29th. I'll make sure it's ready well in advance.

[Spilner521]

You son of a.... :p




No, it's ok man. There's absolutely no need to rush anything. I wouldn't want you to make any runs without being 100% sure it'll run well and not destroy itself. It's good to take your time and double and triple check things before going all out. It's only March, you have all summer to put up 11 second passes.

Besides, I hate seeing videos of quarter miles passes where the description says "This is my run, but it wasn't making full boost, and it still needs a better tune, and I couldn't get traction because it was so cold out and I'm still on snow tires , and I missed a gear, and my seats were uncomfortable.... But imagine how fast I would've been if it ran perfect!!!"

[Spilner521]

Wow dude, relax. It's not your car, engine, time or money that will go down the tubes if something is wrong.

Wise move on BJ's part if he's not sure. Keep us updated.
I don't think [ion] was serious, it was just some good old e-sarcasm :thumb:

[cherrington17]

good luck mike!
woah..wait. i thought his name was bj... wheres this "mike" garbage coming from!?




anywho... Bj did you get all the wrenching fixed? and hows the tuning coming along? killin those gremlins in the beast?

[Trickyslick]

Sorry it didnt go down but keep me posted I will definately be there on the 29th...it was good talking to Mike "BJ" and Derek "Strtryder" hope we can all hook up on the 29th. Good luck.

[Gr1m]

hope we can all hook up on the 29th. Good luck.
3waymuch?

[Trickyslick]

Wonder where your mind is????? Sicko...Ha Ha

[DOHC_tuner]

good decision not to run cause you dont want to blow it up. I would have done the same after putting so much money and time on the motor, good luck and POST A VIDEO!;)

[Vinalero]

It only remember me of my friend that was telling me :"If you're not breaking parts, you're not trying hard enough"

But yeah I get your point BJ, be sure of your build and tune before going all out.

[cherrington17]

is it the 30th yet? i want to hear how things went!

[Alero2k4]

Yes I still lurk on here from time to time.....can't wait to see what happens blackjack!!!!!!

[BlackJack]

Right on guys. We're getting there slowly but surely.

[AleroB888]

What is the lowest rpm point the engine drops to between the 1-2 shift at WOT?

[BlackJack]

BETWEEN the 1-2 shift....as in during shift-time?

[AleroB888]

BETWEEN the 1-2 shift....as in during shift-time?

What I meant was, the lowest recorded point on the chart graph, if using HP Tuners, after the ramp up from idle to max rpm, when it drops down somewhere between 3000 to 4000 rpm before rising up again to the 2-3 shift point.

[BlackJack]

Don't know, because I don't scan for it in that method. I use the torque reduction tables to retard spark during the shifts, and I measure what that needs to be based on comparison between OSS and ISS for clutch slippage during the 1-2 shift rather than how many RPMs.

[Trickyslick]

How are things going BJ??? Are you going to run it soon???

[BlackJack]

Looking like a 70% chance of this Friday night, as of now. Finding more expenses that I'll have to get taken care of along the way.

Like, all new tires, etc.

[Trickyslick]

Thanks keep me posted you have my number...

[BlackJack]

yup, will do :)

[BlackJack]

What I meant was, the lowest recorded point on the chart graph, if using HP Tuners, after the ramp up from idle to max rpm, when it drops down somewhere between 3000 to 4000 rpm before rising up again to the 2-3 shift point.

Just a thought, did you mean from redline in 1st, how much does it drop when it pops into 2nd?

If that's the case, I set the shift point at 5800 under WOT, then it shifts to 2nd and starts winding out again from around 3800 to 4000, well into boost still at that point.

[jackal2000]

only 5800?? thats weak. spin that bitch to at least 6500!

[BlackJack]

don't need to.

1. Stock bottom end and don't like rod stretch, bad for piston/valve contact
2. Stock cam, my powerband falls off right after 5800
3. Smoke most cars (including yours) before 5500 in any gear :p

See any reason for me to hit 6500 now?

[jackal2000]

reason 2 was good enough, but now provide me a reason for keeping the stock cam. :p

[BlackJack]

reason 2 was good enough, but now provide me a reason for keeping the stock cam. :p

oh, too easy. When I run out of acceptable power, and can start getting traction between gears, I'll look into ways of making more power. Right now, doesn't look like I'll need it.

[Spilner521]

Speed based boost control. Obviously right now you probably don't need it and are happy with the amount of power you're putting out, but if you ever push for more, you can extract all the power you can out of it while still having traction in the lower gears. It's what I'll be using on my car.

[BlackJack]

Thanks. Working on an RPM triggered two-stage boost controller.

Figured I could run about 8psi to 4500 and then pump it to 15 once traction is established.

[[ion] C2]

such an awesome concept. i have no traction due to instant almost peak boost lol

[BlackJack]

I totally understand that. When I set for 15psi, I start into boost at around 2500 RPM and hit peak by 3500. That much boost that fast is totally retarded on torque steer and traction. But my friend said it looks impressive when he was riding next to me, breaking loose at a roll.

[AleroB888]

Just a thought, did you mean from redline in 1st, how much does it drop when it pops into 2nd?

If that's the case, I set the shift point at 5800 under WOT, then it shifts to 2nd and starts winding out again from around 3800 to 4000, well into boost still at that point.

Yeah, that's what I meant, mine is dropping to about 4000 to 4200, which is not too bad after all the years of abuse.

One thing to watch for is, if you increase the line pressure for performance tuning, fluid may be forced out and cause a small leak. What I have had to do is go thru the water box first, then up the pressure via a switch, to avoid getting it on the track. Hopefully yours won't have that problem, though.

With your tranny, you should be able to use stock settings and still get good results.

[BlackJack]

actually, I do need more pressure than stock, because if I don't, the clutches will slip under that much torque. I'm not going through that again :)


However, keep in mind, after installing the "Performance Shift" switch, all I do is hit a toggle switch and go from stock pressures and shift points to increased pressure and higher shift points.

[Mr_Reed]

thats pretty damn sweet man. But I got to ask ya how much money you think you have dropped into your Alero not including how much you paid for it.

[BlackJack]

engine, about 3 grand
trans swap, about 2 grand including trans and axles, plus original fabrication, and my time to make it work.

so, all in all, about $5k (which is almost the cost of just a supercharger kit minus the extra goodies.)

[Trickyslick]

So hows it looking for getting to the track???

[Redog]

How hard is it to transfer the 4t65 files to the PCM? :ninja:

[BlackJack]

So hows it looking for getting to the track???

Upgraded from 70% to 80%. Remaining details are:
1) tires purchased/installed
2) weld a bead around the throttlebody throat because I keep blowing couplers off at 15psi
3) Fabricate hood spacers at the rear hinges so the hood will fit/clear.
4) Finish tweaking
How hard is it to transfer the 4t65 files to the PCM? :ninja:
With the PowrTuner, it's just a matter of making sure the subset categories match, then import the data such as PPM for speed calculation from the OSS, and input proper gear ratio, then extrapolate shift tables and torque management/reduction values.

[Trickyslick]

Are we still looking around Saturday 29th of March in the evening???

[BlackJack]

Things keep getting better. Went up to 15psi and broke off 2 trans/motor mounts. Lets see if we can get it fixed in time. Too much torque? Don't know, but this is pissing me off :D

[Redog]

^^ sounds like a good problem, well sorta of :D

[clutch1]

extrapolate


:wacko: some word, lol.

This thing must be ridiculous to watch in person. If only I was anywhere close to AZ to get a look-se, damn.

[Spilner521]

C2;345944']such an awesome concept. i have no traction due to instant almost peak boost lol
You ready to go turbo yet? :p

2) weld a bead around the throttlebody throat because I keep blowing couplers off at 15psi

What kind of clamps are you using?

[BlackJack]

You ready to go turbo yet? :p


What kind of clamps are you using?

clothes pins, you dork :D

T-bolt clamps of course.

[Spilner521]

clothes pins, you dork :D

T-bolt clamps of course.
Ha...just curious, I didn't know for sure :p Usually the T-bolt clamps hold up pretty well.

[BlackJack]

actually, they do hold up pretty well, until you hit 12psi or more. Then you have to do something extra to get them to hold.

[NickAlero2000]

Good Luck 2nite BJ!

[BlackJack]

15psi and broke off 2 trans/motor mounts.

no-go......but I do have new motor/trans mounts installed now.

[YALEROYNOT]

take you time and get it right. the last thing I want to see is a video of you blown you motor on the first pass. with the money and time you have in to this build I am sure you cant wait to put you foot in it :eek: