build 3400 or swap 3.8 s/c series II

[bkathsalero]

so im stuck between building my 3400 and swapping in a 3800 s/c series II.. i know alot of guys think u can make alot of power out of the 3400 and its alot lighter.. but on the flip side the 3800 series II is a heavier motor but can be built into a beast... the first thing ill do with the 3800 is swap the pulley on the s/c... but help me out on what you guys think.. i have faith beacuse alot of u are alero veterns and ive had mine a little over a year... (and no im not turbocharging my 3400.. to much work/$/ and i dont have an idea of how to make it work :( )

[Redog]

Both are good motors but I say build up the 3400.

You can s/c it and do the work for the same money as the 3800. If you want a "beast" you'll want to rebuild either motor from the ground up anyway

[Spilner521]

So you don't want to turbo the 3400 becuase you don't have the money or know how, but you'd rather take on the task of purchasing and swapping in a supercharged 3800 and 4t65 tranny instead??? :wtf2:

There's a few of us here that know how to make turbos work. Start asking questions.

[bkathsalero]

i guess im not totally against it.. but its a lot of money and i've never personally installed a turbocharger.. but i have done a few swaps.. and the i can get a 3800 s/c for 600 and install my self.. so i feel more comfortable with that... and i have the tools needed to fab everything and install.. wierd i know.. but im afraid to spend the money on a turbo and have to spend even more on having someone help install it.. cause im 18 and money gets tough... and i've heard different things bout the turbo about having to rebuild the motor and not having to.. i know on other applications u can run up to a certian amount of boost on a stock motor... thats another reason im asking for others opinions.. i guess i have more of a lack of knowledge on the turbo, rather then being totally against it ... but im leniant towards the 3800 cause its more power rite from stock and can be built... while the 3400 is still lighter and has a list of mods and potential to waste a 3800 s/c (if u have the money)... im basically just stuck between the two.. it would also be nice to have a 3800 in an alero cause not many people have it and im all about being different

[Spilner521]

You realize you'll need the 4T65HD transmission with the 3800 engine right? So you need to swap the engine and transmission, possibly fabricate new mounts, make up some new axles to fit that transmission with Alero hubs, and also a PCM that'll run that engine. I'm not saying the 3800 is a bad way to go. It's got some good power and is a very good platform to start with modifications. But it certainly won't be a $600 deal and drop it in during a weekend.

I personally think it would be easier to turbo the 3400. It's actually not hard to learn the basics of a turbo setup, and if you can install an engine and transmission and fabricate your own parts, you can cartainly build and install your own turbo kit. Just something to think about....

[bkathsalero]

i know it wont be a 600$ job and by no means a weekend job.. i was thinking more along the lines of a summer job... but if u dont mind i got a couple of questions bout the turbo..

*price
*whp made
*how much boost
*how much building on the motor?
*can the stock tranny take the power
*what other upgrades are needed?


I got to admit that ur alero looks bad ass with that intercooler!!

[Spilner521]

*There is no set price, it all depends on what you want to run.
*Again, power depends on what kind of setup you run.
*Depending on the turbo, I'd say 10-12psi on the stock engine
*Zero building of the motor
*Yes the stock tranny can take the power. A shift improver and fluid cooler are good ways to prolong tranny life.
*Larger fuel inejctors, larger exhaust piping, and some way to tune everything

BlackJack would be the one who can give you specifics about how much power it took to blow the stock transmission and how much boost he was running.

[tonyboi261]

how much power do you want to make?

[bkathsalero]

idk.. better question... how much power can i make? :)

[Spilner521]

In another post BlackJack said it took close to 400whp to kill his stock tranny and I believe he's still on stock internals with the engine.

[tonyboi261]

well there you go 350 with stock transmission

[alerored04]

350 will still eat a stock trans. I won't beleive this until it is done. There is a guy on gagt with the one and only 3800 n body and he has said if he could start over he would build the 3400. If you are serious about more power spend the money on a good turbo and trans setup for the 3400.

[bkathsalero]

what is a beefier tranny thats gonna fit onto the 3400? or do i just need to get mine built up? i;ve been thinkin bout it all last night and i think i will just build up the 3400.. but now im stuck between a supercharger or turbo (simps everyone ive talked to said turbos arnt as hard as i thought they were) but i cant seem to find a good turbo for the 3400 and i hear that the rsm supercharger isnt any good.. and the 1 turbo that i did find they said that they were redisigning the turbo and currently werent for sale... so any links would help.. appreciate they help guys!!

[alerored04]

There are no bolt on applications for this vehicle. I think you have a lot more research to do. Check out gagt.com, there is lots of good info there.

[blueolds01]

isnt mike at milzy making a turbo kit that will be ready here shortly??

[bkathsalero]

yea i do got to do alot of research yet.... and that would be sweet if milzy made one!!!


... hey alerored04 are u from MN those looks like mn plates

[BlackJack]

Grand Forks....."brrrr......"

[jayson_waltz]

^ ya no crap it only got to about 35 degrees here today, but its still screwed up sping enough that driving around shooting today the country roads are EXTREMELY muddy.

As for the original question, i'd go with the 3400. That way you don't have to screw with custom fabricating.

[alerored04]

I am from New Prague MN but currently live in East Grand Forks Mn for college. /\ It was a strange weekend. It was like 40* on thursday, i did a full wash and detail on the car, it was beautiful. It snowed friday night and messed it all up. Damn weather.

[Spilner521]

350 will still eat a stock trans.
Says who?

[alerored04]

Germ with his 4t40 on his monte blew through 3 trans in a year without even beating on it.

[Redog]

The 4t65 tranny will bolt right up to the 3400 motor, the body on the other hand.....

No offense, but not only does it seems that you don't know what you want, but you also don't know what you are talking about.

[alerored04]

The 4t65 tranny will bolt right up to the 3400 motor, the body on the other hand.....

No offense, but not only does it seems that you don't know what you want, but you also don't know what you are talking about.

I agree.

[BlackJack]

Germ with his 4t40 on his monte blew through 3 trans in a year without even beating on it.

Not so, that I'm aware of, although yes, he blew through 3 trannies, but IIRC, they were 4t60's, not 4t40's. And the 4t60 is more stout than a 4t45.

[alerored04]

Oh, i thought they were 40's i couldn't remember what the monte ran stock, cause they were bone stock transmissions. My mistake. iirc he wasnt making more than 300 with the setup he had at the time. He was still on log manis and a small turbo. BJ do you know when he is planning on getting it back up and running? I saw him a less than a year ago and he said he wasn't in a hurry since he had a newborn but had finished welding his turbo headers.

[BlackJack]

haven't heard jack from him in about 6 months.

[01silveralero]

The 4t65 tranny will bolt right up to the 3400 motor, the body on the other hand.....

No offense, but not only does it seems that you don't know what you want, but you also don't know what you are talking about.

incorrect......the 4t65e/hd has a different bolt pattern than the 4t45e

[Kilroy]

What are the chances of retrofitting the S/C from a 3.8, onto a 3.4?? Could one not fab a custom inatke???

[BigStribS]

incorrect......the 4t65e/hd has a different bolt pattern than the 4t45e


Incorrect... it will! The bolt pattern on the bell housing is the same and is proven not only on blackjacks car but also with Milzy's race car here at the shop. The only differences are the mounting points.

[Redog]

He's just trying to show me up and he failed :lol:

If I would have told him he was wrong, he would have insisted I was wrong.

Also let's not forget, the Venture, and 00 to 05 Impala have the 3400 motors with the 4t65 tranny and Impala police carsand service type Ventures have the 4t65hd tranny :rolleyes2:

[Redog]

What are the chances of retrofitting the S/C from a 3.8, onto a 3.4?? Could one not fab a custom inatke???

I think it can be done. I think tthe s/c on the 3.8 is the eaton 62, which has been a kit for the Alero for a while now. You put in any s/c set-up you'll need to fab up piping anyway

[alerored04]

I think it can be done. I think tthe s/c on the 3.8 is the eaton 62, which has been a kit for the Alero for a while now. You put in any s/c set-up you'll need to fab up piping anyway

It can be done but the 3800 sc is a part of the intake mani so you will have to cut a large section out of your uim and weld the sc to it. It will sit so high that you will have to cut a hole in the hood. Kilroy do a search, damn near every noob that comes here think that this is a new or feasible idea.

[Cliff8928]

incorrect......the 4t65e/hd has a different bolt pattern than the 4t45e

They're all available in different bolt patterns for different engines.

[01silveralero]

They're all available in different bolt patterns for different engines.

well series 2 4t65e wont fit on onto a 2000+ alero

[MilzyZ34]

well series 2 4t65e wont fit on onto a 2000+ alero

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. The bell-housing flange for the 3800 series II and series III in both Supercharged and non-Supercharged applications is exactly the same as a 3100, 3400, 3500, etc. I deal with these everyday since I make performance parts for all these engines. I have each engine and each trans here as well.

[Redog]

^^ OWN3D!!!!!! :lol:

well series 2 4t65e wont fit on onto a 2000+ alero

You sure you still wanna do this project LOL :lol:

[Kilroy]

It can be done but the 3800 sc is a part of the intake mani so you will have to cut a large section out of your uim and weld the sc to it. It will sit so high that you will have to cut a hole in the hood. Kilroy do a search, damn near every noob that comes here think that this is a new or feasible idea.

I have been on here for quite a while, so cut the "noob" shit!! I have only EVER seen a supercharger for the 3400 that mounts on the side, and has a long shaft running to the dront of the engine for a pulley. If it can be mad to fit the 3400 intake manifold, that would be a much more ideal configuration. The fact that a "bump" in the hood has to be made, only makes things more exciting. Now, I have a project to try for. I just need a UIM, and a 3800 S/C , and I talk to my welding God buddies, and a few more minor details, and I have a very clean, almost stock looking setup. I very much prefer a S/C od the type on the 3800 (is it not called a "roots type"??) than either a Paxton, or the one that mounts on the side of the engine.

Thanks for the info on the possiblitit of this project. Now I know what I want to do to my Alero.

P.S. Don't be looking for progress in the near future, With practically no finds, this isn't going to happen for me for a while. :cool:

[alerored04]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/357142 That is a bit more than a bump in the hood. There is no way to cover that. If you do it the car will have to be fair weather only with a gaping hole in the hood.

[01silveralero]

^^ OWN3D!!!!!! :lol:



You sure you still wanna do this project LOL :lol:

redog go play with ur delta........since u cant even understand exactly what im pointing out. i wasnt owned in any way. if i had the money to fab it up i would have done it already. in the meantime my 3.8 s/c engine and transmission are just staying on a pallet.

[01silveralero]

made, only makes things more exciting. Now, I have a project to try for. I just need a UIM, and a 3800 S/C
i have a spare 3800 supercharger. :p

[Redog]

redog go play with ur delta........since u cant even understand exactly what im pointing out. i wasnt owned in any way. if i had the money to fab it up i would have done it already. in the meantime my 3.8 s/c engine and transmission are just staying on a pallet.


Me:
The 4t65 tranny will bolt right up to the 3400 motor, the body on the other hand.....


you: (deleted you're post but somebody already quoted you)

incorrect......the 4t65e/hd has a different bolt pattern than the 4t45e



Cliff:
They're all available in different bolt patterns for different engines.


you trying to show up Cliff:
well series 2 4t65e wont fit on onto a 2000+ alero


Milzy:
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. The bell-housing flange for the 3800 series II and series III in both Supercharged and non-Supercharged applications is exactly the same as a 3100, 3400, 3500, etc. I deal with these everyday since I make performance parts for all these engines. I have each engine and each trans here as well.

And let throw in the fact that Blackjack also just finished a 4t65 tranny swap into his Alero and I'm sure there are a few 3400 GA's with the 4t65 tranny in them.

How were you not own3d?

[WhiteV6]

3400 is more efficient and lighter. Im really not a fan of the 3800 though.

[Kilroy]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/357142 That is a bit more than a bump in the hood. There is no way to cover that. If you do it the car will have to be fair weather only with a gaping hole in the hood.

Some creative welding and fabbing will get that much lower. Right now it's just an idea anyway. Thanks for the picture though, it gives me something to go on!

[99-alero]

that beretta is ridiculous looking, guy in my town has a 2nd gen cavy with a 3800 SC and his fits wat better then that

[Redog]

Well I give the Beretta guy props for the fab work, but it def needs a custom cowl hood now, and there is nothing wrong with a little bit of intake piping to bring that intake down say next to the turn signal ;)

[BlackJack]

And let throw in the fact that Blackjack also just finished a 4t65 tranny swap into his Alero and I'm sure there are a few 3400 GA's with the 4t65 tranny in them.

How were you not own3d?

As far as a few 3400 GA's with a 4t65 that are complete, streetable, and fully functional? I don't know about them if there are.

But yes, the bell housing bolt pattern is the same. Only thing I changed out by choice was the GTP flex plate so I could use the GTP torque converter, and even the GTP flex plate was the same bolt pattern on the crank flange as my 3400.

There are a couple of different dimensions on the TC-to-flexplate bolts though, so depending on if you got a GTP or regular GP trans may make a difference. Best thing to do is get the flexplate from the year/model trans you are using.

[Cliff8928]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/357142 That is a bit more than a bump in the hood. There is no way to cover that. If you do it the car will have to be fair weather only with a gaping hole in the hood.

LOL, Yeah, Scott's SC setup is a little crazy on the Z26. Last time I saw it he didn't have it installed. He does have a (massive) hood scoop for it too..