is it possible?

[bigdaddyD]

i was thinking, i know alot of guys like to turbo their cars alot of guys like the SC option. So i was wondering would it be possible to have the best of both worlds? have a SC feed into the turbo? If so, would it reduce the "Turbo Lag" that turbos tend to suffer from?

[super white alero1]

I heard rice saying they have a SC and a turbo before and i smirk. But to come and flat out ask does anyone have both setup on 1 car is unique. I never seen both on 1 car so I say no.

[-Alero-]

yes and yes.................turbo option would be a dual turbo setup known as Bi- turbo, one small for quick spool, one large that overtakes the small for higher rpms

there are plenty of ion redlines and cobalt SS's with stock superchargers and aftermarket turbo's......."twin charged" if you will..........also i believe there is a grandprix wit hthe L67 (stock supercharged) with a big turbo


and to answer you other question yes it eliminates lag, because SC is instant, and where the SC falls on its face turbo picks up..... so it can be done all it takes is money.......and a little bit of time

[LiveWire]

oh that would be sick.

[natedawg9640]

if my memory serves correctly maseratis made a name for themselves in the bi-turbo world. i've seen cars with supercharged superchargers... and most definately twin charging is possible...

twin superchargers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiWUNdrQn6Y&feature=related

twin charged
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brZ0BYgV9u0&feature=related

http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0701_turp_nissan_350z_twin_charged/index.html
here's this car http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd4XA8czlks

http://images.turbomagazine.com/features/0701_turp_07z+nissan_350_twin_charged+engine.jpg

[[ion] C2]

Yes of course it's possible. The best setup is to have the turbo bypass the supercharger completely once it's spooled to eliminate any flow restriction the supercharger might cause.

There's a twincharged j-body that made 240whp on 7 PSI, and 248whp on 11 psi with just the turbo. it's far more efficient to twincharge, and you get the supercharger whine, turbo whistle and blow off valve sounds all together

[-Alero-]

^^ lol what more could you ask for in life

[Cliff8928]

This has got to be my favorite twin-charged setup..

http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/bilder/Bildgalleri/Galleri18.jpg

16v Volvo 2.3 with a GT40 and M62 churning out 578HP and 505 Ft-lbs!

The car (Opel Manta) runs a 10.52

[Redog]

Those Volvo motors are underestmated. They can make some crazy power :eek:

I think it could be done. It would all be in the programming ;)

[1TONK5]

Neato stuff. I believe it was some of the old Detroit diesels that were set up with the turbo feeding into a supercharger. We're talkin OLD big rig motors.

[bigdaddyD]

so what do you guys think would be better, SC+turbo or TT?

[AJules]

I'd go with 2 turbos.

Seems like it would be easier all around.

[[ion] C2]

yes it would, tuning for twincharging and doing a twincharger setup properly is difficult

[bigdaddyD]

is there enough room under the hood for either setup without having to do any kind of major work(besides getting the setup to work)?

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

on an alero, there would be enough room, but you have to be super good at mapping out the pipes to 1) make it all fit and 2) keep a smooth flow without sharp bends

[AJules]

is there enough room under the hood for either setup without having to do any kind of major work(besides getting the setup to work)?

Well this depends on which engine you have
If you have the 3400, you're gonna hafta move some things around
The battery is probably a good place to start

If you have one of the 4s, you have a little more room to work with.

[bigdaddyD]

ya i have the 3400, as far as moving the battery, is there a kit out there? also im assuming i would probably have to remove the air intake?

[cherrington17]

i still like the engine shot from a VW Golf, that a company built to beat the enzo in 0-60. i believe it was a twin turbo setup? (maybe its bi-turbo) eitther way, it has two beastly turbos and had what they said was "aggressive acceleration" :D

[AJules]

i still like the engine shot from a VW Golf, that a company built to beat the enzo in 0-60. i believe it was a twin turbo setup? (maybe its bi-turbo) eitther way, it has two beastly turbos and had what they said was "aggressive acceleration" :D

Could you post a picture?
I'd like to see that.

[bigdaddyD]

i think he is talking about post #8

[03MNAlero]

Intense used to have the 3800 record for a twin charged gtp. ran somewhere in the 9's

[bigdaddyD]

whats the record for a 3400?

[cherrington17]

Could you post a picture?
I'd like to see that.

i'd like to be able to find it again. it was sick (and hilarious to see a golf that can pwn an enzo... in the 0.60, not handling)

i'll have to search when i get home tonight, maybe i'll find it again.

[natedawg9640]

ya i have the 3400, as far as moving the battery, is there a kit out there? also im assuming i would probably have to remove the air intake?


ummm... yeah i don't think you'd need that stock intake any more

[Spilner521]

Here's pics of the twin charged 2.4 on Jbody.org. It's a pretty sick setup:

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7161/twincharged1rh5.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/7858/twincharged2ai4.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/4471/twincharged3dm4.jpg

Although twin charging can be done with some success, I'd much rather use just a turbo. It's a common myth that turbos always have all kinds of lag. When you properly match the size of the turbo to your engine, there will be almost no lag and you'll still have more power potential than you need, especially when using a ball bearing turbo. It's when you start matching 800hp turbos to 1.8L engines that you'll see a lot of lag.

Twin turbo and Bi turbo are the same thing, where two of the same size turbos are used and each one gets its own bank of cylinders to feed it. Sequential twin turbo is when a small turbo is used to spool a large turbo. Sometimes they will each have their own bank of cylinders, sometimes the exhaust will run through the small one and then through the large one. The most complicated version is when exhaust is routed through the small turbo and then at a certain boost pressure a valve opens and allows exhaust to flow to the large turbo, even though they're both mated to the same exhaust manifold.

C2;363649']Yes of course it's possible. The best setup is to have the turbo bypass the supercharger completely once it's spooled to eliminate any flow restriction the supercharger might cause.

There's a twincharged j-body that made 240whp on 7 PSI, and 248whp on 11 psi with just the turbo. it's far more efficient to twincharge, and you get the supercharger whine, turbo whistle and blow off valve sounds all together
His original car (blue Sunfire) made 240whp on 7psi twin charged, then his new car (silver Sunfire) with a different engine made 248whp at 11psi with the same twin charged setup that he swapped over. Those pics up top are of his new setup on a fully built engine.

I'm not sure I agree with you that twin charging is more efficient, but it's certainly a way to get good response from a big, laggy turbo. Like you mentioned, this setup would be most efficient if the supercharger could be completely bypassed once the turbo is spooled.

[bigdaddyD]

once the turbo is spooled, does it stay spooled till the car is turned off or does it constantly have to respool? sorry i dont know much about turbos.

[[ion] C2]

lol spooling just means when the compressor spins at its most efficient speed and is making the peak or near peak boost you want. it slows down depending on many factors. it only "spools" when you put load on the car or want to go fast

[bigdaddyD]

sorry bout that, when i hear spooling, i think printers, i hate being an it guys somtimes.

[cherrington17]

not the same one i remember seeing, but similar results.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/i/common/slideshows/hgp_golf_r36_biturbo_5.jpg
http://www.europeancarweb.com/tuned/0401ec_volkswagen_golf_fastest_street_vw_in_the_wo rld/index.html

[[ion] C2]

rofl all that work and the stock intake.

[cherrington17]

i think it said the car is like ~30k, then the mods add another 28k(ish) so for less then 60k, you can have a car faster then the fastest supercar. (0-60) which i found funny.


but this was just after the enzo came out.... by now i'm sure they have something a little better.

[kwhauck]

ya i have the 3400, as far as moving the battery, is there a kit out there?

universal battery kits, basically some 0 gauge wire, are around $50

[jayson_waltz]

that would be sweet in an alero. i did see in a mag. a while back that VW was gonna be doing that from the factory

[1TONK5]

i think it said the car is like ~30k, then the mods add another 28k(ish) so for less then 60k, you can have a car faster then the fastest supercar. (0-60) which i found funny.


but this was just after the enzo came out.... by now i'm sure they have something a little better.

True, but most supercars are built to do just a little more than sprint in a straight line. A lot of these exotics have relatively unimpressive 1/4 mile times when you compare what can be done with a heads/cam ls1 car...but the second you tell a T/A to do anything but travel in a straight line everyone gets their laffs.