Turbo Qs

[cherrington17]

As I've been reading everyones' threads on it, i still feel incredibly noob-ish. :lol:

And i'm not exactly looking for strictly 100% accurate numbers or figures, but...


Could someone compile a sort of list, or something, showing how much boost yields approx what horsepower, and what engine mods you'd have to do in order to NOT have your car explode?

Obviously it varies car to car, even with the same engine, and wear and tear is going to vary, thus causing premature breakdown of other parts that might not be listed...

But i figured it could be a decent general DO-ALL reference for new members (or old members new to turbos) to get a decent idea of what they are looking to do, or how MUCH of a project it really is.

it would also be a nice addition to the wiki, if it turns out well...

[[ion] C2]

No, lol. Each turbocharger is different, sizing, flow, varies, there is no direct relation of PSI (flow resistance) to maximum capacity before things break, only vague guidelines.

There's an excellent new writeup of a complete turbo parts list and installation pictures on j-body for an LD9 setup at least. I'll get that edited and transfered to Aleromod Upgrades soon.

[super white alero1]

How much you want to spend? How fast you want to go? How long you wish to keep your car? Ask yourself those question first.

Edit: Cheap, fast, reliable....Pick two :)

[jackal2000]

cheap, fast, reliable. pick two.

damnit superwhite, no more editing posts for you.

[Midgear]

I pick Fast and Reliable.. now make me a list lol

[cherrington17]

obviously each turbo is different, but there'd HAVE to be a direct relationship to what psi produces approx what Hp gain.

as well as for our cars, what a basic setup would run, parts wise.

its not like i haven't read countless threads on "what do i need for this setup?" with people typing out a laundry list of parts. Its certainly possible to do a basic guideline.

If they can do it for general health (that varies greatly from person to person) i think it can be done for a machine that was assembled the same way.


I'd say if it was to be done, go for reliable, period. Cheap, you can find yourself and fast, you can do more research for.

[super white alero1]

Forged lower compression pistons - $$$
Forged H-beam rods or Billet rods from Mantaparts - $$$
Clevite bearings - $$$
Oiling system - $$$
Turbo unit - $$$
Intercooler - $$$
Methol/alcohol injection - $$$
Tuner system - $$$
By-pass valve - $
Head job - :lol: - $$$
Valve job - $$$
Dual coil spring (rate @ least 300 lb) - $$
SS valves - $$$ or Titanium valves - $$$
Bronze guide - $$
SS retainer - $$
Followers - $$
2.3 HO oil pump - $$
short block modification - $$$$
Oil pan oil modification - $$
Exhaust work - $$$
Intake piping - $$$
Somebody to tune the sh*t outta the engine - $$$
Dyno pull - $$


Watch your tranny crack on the first try at the track - PRICELESS













Don't forget to upgrade brakes transmission, suspension,



EDIT: PIE

[alerored04]

Cherry the problem with this is that turbo systems can differ not only in PSI but in flow as well. Think of it in wiring terms. PSI would be resistance equivalent to ohms where flow and system volume would equate to voltage. So even though two turbo systems may both run 10 psi one may be pushing that through a 3" pipe while the other is running 2". The CFM flow on the 10 psi 3" would be much larger hence more power despite both being at "10 psi" hence psi is a tough way to determine power output of a setup. And I am not even touching on the differences tuning make. If I had first hand experience I would try to answer your question in a specific way but coming from me would be all speculation.

[super white alero1]

^^^ alerored, I'm jealous of your mods :P

[cherrington17]

Cherry the problem with this is that turbo systems can differ not only in PSI but in flow as well. Think of it in wiring terms. PSI would be resistance equivalent to ohms where flow and system volume would equate to voltage. So even though two turbo systems may both run 10 psi one may be pushing that through a 3" pipe while the other is running 2". The CFM flow on the 10 psi 3" would be much larger hence more power despite both being at "10 psi" hence psi is a tough way to determine power output of a setup. And I am not even touching on the differences tuning make. If I had first hand experience I would try to answer your question in a specific way but coming from me would be all speculation.


thats why i said just a general list. Obviously, anyone who followed it and said i have X setup, now i'm running 260hp would be a fool. Each and every car differs, even if running the exact same equipment. Hence why frostbite ran 14s in the 1/4 mile w/ minimum mods...

thats why i said GENERAL.....







GENERAL!

Edit: superwhite.... thats alot of $s :lol:

[Midgear]

Clevite bearings - $$$
Oiling system - $$$
Methol/alcohol injection - $$$
Dual coil spring (rate @ least 300 lb) - $$
Bronze guide - $$
SS retainer - $$
Followers - $$
2.3 HO oil pump - $$
short block modification - $$$$
Oil pan oil modification - $$



EDIT: PIE

that edit was well worth it. now all hilarity aside-

the things I quoted you on.. can you explain what these parts do / their use in this "setup" .. I removed the things I personally know about.. these other things like "Followers" ... wtf is that? :lol:

[[ion] C2]

I've never heard of followers, unless he means those who follow your progress. Always need those.

Bearings are what the rod/crank spin on, good to have high quality ones. Oiling system upgrades are nice to make sure everything is oiled. Meth injection cools the charge air and allows for more aggressive timing in tuning. Springs, guides, retainers, all head crap to improve the performance of the valves opening and closing, quickness to react, not necessary. The high output oil pump as stated above, good idea to improve oiling. Short block mods for oil feed line and tapping oil pan for oil return line.

[super white alero1]

This quote explains better than me
The hydraulic lifter comprises a cam follower that is moved up and down by contact with the cam profile, and an inner bore into which the valve lifter is closely fitted and retained by a spring clip. The valve lifter, in turn, is a cup closed at the top by a freely moving cylindrical plug that has a socket at the top to fit the lower end of the pushrod.

I would've assume that Ion would have used followers instead of the stock rotator. They periodically show up in JBO classified.

The benefit of such a setup is not noticeable for power but reliability since rotators don't react fast enough depending on what your redline is. Followers uses bearings and therefore response faster.

The reason most people don't do this is because its worthless unless you plan to do circle track, road course , or endurance.

Does it make sense why I got all those suspension/brake crap now.

[[ion] C2]

Dude, these don't have freaking rocker arms. DOHC. LD9. Not pushrod V6. There's no such thing as "followers" in my engine.

Just like my uncle who was surprised I wasn't going to get roller rockers. Overhead cams directly actuate the valves by pressing against little dome shaped "lifters" on top of the valve stem ends.

The ones you see go up on j-body are likely the old pushrod 2200 OHV crap engine ones.

[super white alero1]

ion you question me as if i don't know what I'm talking about and you skim everything i post. Did you take a minute to follow what i meant.

Here's an image of what I'm talking about. If you went as far as me in research you would have found this.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/touge1981/HeadInstallation018.jpg

Edit the little dome shaped lifters you talking about are rotators. Our engine don't have lifters.

[[ion] C2]

Oh, lol. Now it makes sense. I didn't know wtf "followers" or "rotators" were.

The Overhaul Manual calls them lifters on the LD9. So does spyhunter and practically everyone on j-body.

[super white alero1]

@ midgear

Clevite bearings - the best and highly recommended bearing on the market.
Oiling system - See short block mod
Methol/alcohol injection - To help cool down combustion temp, to help prevent knocking
Dual coil spring (rate @ least 300 lb) - This help shift your redline up higher to prevent valve float.
Bronze guide - Aids in cooling of the exhaust valve. Also the bronze guides are more frictionless than stock guides
SS retainer - lighter than stock, less rotation mass
Followers (rotator) - are more frictionless to better aid in moving parts
2.3 HO oil pump - see short block mod
short block modification - This is something you need to talk to machinist about. Used with 2.3 oil pump, and delete the balance shaft. I'll have some pic up
Oil pan oil modification - Depends how serious you go. A dry sump is recommend for hard core racing, but it depends on you.

[BlackJack]

Cherry.....there's no such thing as what you're asking for.

you can take the same turbo and put it on two different cars and get two differrent sets of numbers.

Factors it depends on:

Overall flow
Fuel grade
Altitude
Tune
Valve size
Intake path size/smoothness
Condition of compression rings
Total ignition system
and the list goes on and on.

I can take a t3/t4 at .57 trim, .63 AR and make 200hp on one engine, and 300 on another.

A well maintained high-mileage engine may withstand 300hp, while a hard-beaten low mileage engine might blow at 250.

I think you get the point.

[[ion] C2]

Quite a few on here had theirs blow with no mods at all, heh. Depends on a lot.

[Midgear]

@ super_white_alero1

that's the kinda response I was lookin for :lol: now for the pics-

[Spilner521]

obviously each turbo is different, but there'd HAVE to be a direct relationship to what psi produces approx what Hp gain.
I'm going to tell you what others have told you: it doesn't work like that.
Cherry.....there's no such thing as what you're asking for.

you can take the same turbo and put it on two different cars and get two differrent sets of numbers.

Factors it depends on:

Overall flow
Fuel grade
Altitude
Tune
Valve size
Intake path size/smoothness
Condition of compression rings
Total ignition system
and the list goes on and on.

I can take a t3/t4 at .57 trim, .63 AR and make 200hp on one engine, and 300 on another.

A well maintained high-mileage engine may withstand 300hp, while a hard-beaten low mileage engine might blow at 250.

I think you get the point.
What BlackJack says^^ is very true, and to add to it, 10psi on one turbo does not flow the same as 10psi on another turbo.

Let's say for example you have a GT1548 compared to a GT3582R on one given engine both pushing 15psi. The GT1548 will be close to it's maximum output and will probably produce somewhere around 170-190hp. The GT35, because it flows so much more air, would probably push over 400hp at the same 15psi of boost.

[Midgear]

^^ holy shitballs.

[alerored04]

^^^ alerored, I'm jealous of your mods :P
Which mods are those? My car is stock:lol:

[Spilner521]

^^Really? Hmm...my brakes never came with a Corvette logo on them...

[alerored04]

Yup, straight from the factory that way.

[meadus101]

If you're worried about popping an engine, isn't the GM supercharger the best alternative?

[[ion] C2]

not on the 3400

and any power adder is capable of adding too much power for the stock system to handle. people have blown engines stock.

[rowdygls]

If you're worried about popping an engine, isn't the GM supercharger the best alternative?

C2;388521']not on the 3400

and any power adder is capable of adding too much power for the stock system to handle. people have blown engines stock.

correct...due to the fact I have a spare pcm...If I ever sell the charger kit that I am running, I will sell the pcm with it that was tuned for the car. This should get the end user close enough to have some fun without going boom. Granted each car/engine/pcm combo is slightly different.

If Magnacharger put the time into the 3400 kit like they did the 3800 kit, this would be a viable option....and if there were more then 12 or so out in the wild.

[kwhauck]

i believe the official number is 17 or 18.......

[NickAlero2000]

damn...all the boost guru's going at it....
glad i found this thread...

[Spilner521]

If you're worried about popping an engine, isn't the GM supercharger the best alternative?
If you're worried about popping an engine, doing a lot of research and learning a lot about boost is what you should do before you add boost. A turbo or supercharger will both pop a stock or built engine if it's not tuned properly.

[kwhauck]

If you're worried about popping an engine, doing a lot of research and learning a lot about boost is what you should do before you add boost. A turbo or supercharger will both pop a stock or built engine if it's not tuned properly.

so true my FI brother.......