Intake Gasket Leak

[ez4u2chere]

2001 3.4 46k miles

A couple months ago my wife was out on the Interstate and the low coolant light came on. She was about 1/2 mile from the dealer so she stopped by and the told her there was nothing wrong and they topped it off with fluid.

After reading some posts here I'm beginning to wonder if the intake gasket may be leaking. After all, you shouldn't lose coolant for no reason. I didn't notice any milky substance in my oil or under the oil cap.

http://members.cox.net/mmorin/images/Alero/AleroLeak1.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mmorin/images/Alero/AleroLeak2.jpg

What do you think?

[smokinAMD]

Sure looks like it.

[Naich]

Definately sounds like it to me man...

[Oldsmopimp]

That is it. I garountee. Take it to the dealer and tell them agian. Have them pressure test it and they will agree its not just "normal" seapage.

[brim]

oh holy poop you don't even want to see mine

lol

ah bunny it i'll take a pic when i can

take that, turn it into almost like a brown paste, that'd be mine

and also, my oil's fine, so that it don't say much

[bigd6983]

lol yea thats the leak, exactly what mine looked at......when you go down there tell them you have the lower intake gasket leak........

[ez4u2chere]

So how quickly or soon should I worry about this? The car has 46k miles on it now, so it's not under warranty.

Obviously "if" I do bring it to the dealer I'll try to put up a stink and see if I can get a goodwill warranty. Is the stealer going to charge me to diagnose something that is already obviously apparent?

Also, if I do decide to fix it, and if I can't get any help from GM, how hard is it to fix myself and how much is the gasket? I'm a pretty decent driveway mechanic, so I think I should be able to change it myself. Is there a "how-to" around here?

[smokinAMD]

Originally posted by ez4u2chere@Jun 8 2004, 08:55 AM
So how quickly or soon should I worry about this? The car has 46k miles on it now, so it's not under warranty.

Obviously "if" I do bring it to the dealer I'll try to put up a stink and see if I can get a goodwill warranty. Is the stealer going to charge me to diagnose something that is already obviously apparent?

Also, if I do decide to fix it, and if I can't get any help from GM, how hard is it to fix myself and how much is the gasket? I'm a pretty decent driveway mechanic, so I think I should be able to change it myself. Is there a "how-to" around here?
Thats a pretty major fix, you have to rip apart the top half of the engine to get to that. Not only that, but if you screw something up, you can easily toast your entire engine. Now if you have the dealership do it, thier work is waranteed (a year), so if it happens again or they don't do it right, you get it fixed for free.

This happened to me, I got bit by my first intake leak about a year ago, this febuary it went bad again. Luckily, I got it fixed again for free. GM has revised the gasket since it first happened to me, so hopefully it won't happen again.

[jamcllw]

It's not hard to do. Its just very time consuming. It took me and a friend of mine a span of 2 days on and off working on it.
I found a set of the updated gaskets on ebay for $20 shipped to the door. If you go to the dealer to get them they're going to cost you $50 or more. And I got valve cover gaskets for $10 shipped also on ebay. Make sure you get the updated gaskets because they have small metal cylinders around the bolt holes that prevent you from overtightening the bolts and cracking the gasket.
If you do decide to do it yourself make sure you take your time and label everything.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=7904381921 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34202&item=7904381921)

[misslindseysue]

If you bring it in like that, they shouldn't charge you to diagnose it. Just ask a mech to come out for a minute and show them the leak. They can tell by looking at that, it's a common problem.
I got mine goodwilled for half of it, so you should be able to get that, too, if you have a good relationship with your dealer. That'll only work up to 60,000 miles though, so don't wait too long. It cost me ~$200 for my half, since they have to use warranty hours for goodwill work.

[ez4u2chere]

Just so I can get my ducks lined up, what do I need to do? What's the process?

Do I just take it in, tell them I have the leak, have them look at it, then tell them I want GM to pay for it? dunno?

[ptrudel]

the worst thing u can do is go in and start bitchin about it...then u def. won't get good service...just go in, and explain that this is a common problem and u feel that it is gm's RESPONSIBILITY to fix it, or at least help out with costs...don't go sayin it's gm's fault...

[jamcllw]

Call oldsmobile and talk to one of there reps about it. Tell them that you know its a common problem and would like get it repaired with there assistance. Your probably going to have to get it diagnosed. I don't think a tech going out to your car to look at the motor justifies it as definatly a LIM leak. Your most likely going to have to pay for the diagnostic on it. After the diagnostic call GM back up and tell them you got the diagnostic on it and now what? Most likely they'll call the dealership and tell them to fix it with GM footing 1/2 the bill.

[misslindseysue]

Take it in, say "I'm pretty sure I have a lower intake manifold gasket leak, could you have a mechanic come out here when he has a minute and quick look at it?" They shouldn't have a problem doing that. Point on the stains, tell about the low coolant incident. Tell them you know it's a common problem, and you'd like to take care of it before it gets much worse. They should agree with you that that's your problem.
Then be nice about it, but say you know it's a problem, and with your mileage, you really don't think you should have to pay for all of it. See if they offer goodwill money. If not, ask really nicely if that's something they can do for you. If they say no, call GM at 1-800-442-OLDS and ask them for money. They'll want you to have had your car serviced at the dealer in the past.
Good luck!

[sound_xtreme]

mine actually puddled on the lower part. i had to fill it almost daily towards the end. get it fixed soon as ya can. its really bad for the motor. my lifters actually started ticking because of the lack of lubrication the coolant caused. thats never a good thing.

[ez4u2chere]

Oh no, I wasn't going to go in bitchin about it. After all, it's not the dealers fault. They only sell and service the vehicles, not design and build them.

The car was serviced through the dealer for the entire warranty. So for the past 10k miles I've only had 3 oil changes and they have been at a Havoline Express.

The dealership I bought the car from, and had it serviced with seem to be pretty good. I had the rotor problem and they replaced the rotors but I was going to have to suck up for the pads. I raised a stink about it and they ended up paying the entire bill and they detailed the car before I picked it up.

However, this is the same dealership who topped off the fluid for my wife the day the coolant light came on and said there was nothing wrong. I thought it was odd they didn't charge her anything to look at it or top it off. No wonder we didn't get a receipt for anything.

I'm going to try to take some time off this week and bring it in.

Thanks for all the help, and anything else you have please throw my way.

[vodkaslut85]

on this topic, I went to check my oil today because I'm at about 2500 since the last change and it didn't seem too look right and then took the cap off and saw the milkey substance of DEATH. So, I looked at the sides and I have almost identical spots of leakage as ez...I have an extended warranty on my car from the Nissan dealer I bought the car from...upto 99k miles...should I just roll it in there and tell 'em to fix it or should I go to a GM dealer, this is my first ever warrantied car, all my other cars were fix-it-yourselfers. So, I'm not too familiar with how this warranty stuff works.

[BLK03GXS]

Jus take it in and tell em its broken, give me a cutosy car, and fix it.
Thats about it
refrance how hard it is to change... not sure cus i havent done one myself, however it shouldnt be too hard, cus its just an intake mannifold. :rolleyes:

[Redog]

This seems to be a pretty common problem.

I replaced my manifold with the P&P upper and lower about a year ago. My mech replaced the gaskets but he had to cut them. Does anybody think I beat this porbelm this way?

[Oldsmopimp]

Originally posted by Redog@Jun 8 2004, 11:14 PM
This seems to be a pretty common problem.

I replaced my manifold with the P&P upper and lower about a year ago. My mech replaced the gaskets but he had to cut them. Does anybody think I beat this porbelm this way?
Yea, u prolly did. It all depends pretty much on the gaskets u have. The ones ur mechanic got may have been revised versions etc.... Just keep a close eye on it, and if u do notice seapage fix asap and u wont hurt anything. But none-the-less I'm willing to bet ur in the clear.

[ez4u2chere]

Holy crap. I started to put some pretty useful links up here, as well as a pdf service bulletin, but then I came across This Site (http://www.gm-v6lemons.com) and it has everything you need. I'm curious to see where this goes. This guy has some great info.

Like I said, this is one guys story with a ton of links. Check it out.

http://www.gm-v6lemons.com

[Steberino]

Mine looks similar to the picture. I have 3.4L and I am about to change out both Upper and Lower Intake Manifold Gaskets myself. I bought Fel-Pro gaskets. I am hoping this gasket replacement will help with the leaks and coolant reservoir sludge. A friend of mine noticed a heavy leak around the Lower Intake Manifold bolt that is right next to thermostat housing. He said that the bolt could be coming loose due to normal engine vibration and/or incorrect torqueing on the bolt. I plan to use Medium-Strength Lock-Tite (about 80-100 ft./lbs. of torque to break them loose, don't want to use anything stronger cuz you might break the bolt when you might later have to change the gasket again...I HOPE NOT.).
I will let everyone know how difficult, how much time, and result of the fix after this weekend. I also plan to change out the thermostat. I ordered 180 degree thermostat to replace the stock 195 degree thermostat. This could help the new gaskets to last longer, 3.4L get REALLY hot ya know. I can't work on my car until at least 3 hours after it's been shut off. I've burned my hand a plenty of times. :)
I also plan to flush out the cooling system and clean the reservoir tank, it's messy in there.
Well, wish me luck and if anyone has any sort of hints or what you think about what I'm doing, please let me know. Always enjoy people's responses on aleromod.com

[ez4u2chere]

Steberino Let us know how it goes. I went by the dealer today, but they can't look at it til Monday. When I got there I told him "I think I have the infamous 3400 intake leak", and he looked at me like it was the first time he ever heard of such a thing.

So if you can get back to us by then I sure would appreciate it. I've pulled and rebuilt a couple 2.0 Chrysler motors, but I've never played around under the hood with this GM 3400 at all. I just would like to get an idea on difficulty and cost to do it yourself. Pics would be great too. ;)

Do you have to put Dex-Cool back in? If not, I wouldn't. I'd stick to the green stuff.

[Steberino]

Looks like you are pretty active about trying to fix this problem. I am going to work on it tomorrow morning. I should be done by Sunday. I will definitely keep you as well as the forum updated.
Well, I have 1999 3.4L V6 with 52,500 miles. I am the second owner and I purchased mine Aug. 2003 with 39,000 miles on it.

[COLOR=blue]Some Advices:

1. I use Mobil One 5W-30 Fully Synthetic Oil and Purolator Pure One Oil Filter. I encourage EVERYONE to use Mobil One Fully Synthetic. It's used in Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Mercedes', and Porsche's for a reason and why it is the official oil of NASCAR. That stuff is the ABSOLUTE best. Pennzoil, Quaker State, Castrol, etc., all are junks. If you are worried about the cost, you can go almost twice the distance and the time before changing it, so it almost averages out, just a bit more expensive. Don't use any oil additives with Mobil One.

2. Make sure that your coolant reservoir cap's rubber o-ring isn't cracked. I had to replace one and it obviously helped the coolant loss a bit.

3. Until the gasket gets replaced, the problem will only get worse. Summer is here and I would get crackin' on the problem ASAP. ALWAYS have coolant on hand. You don't want to blow a head gasket on top of intake manifold gasket. If I were you I would check it every third day and top it off if needed until you get it fixed.

4. I heard of this coolant additive, neon red/pink color, that helps cool down the coolant more. You might want to use that until you get it fixed. I think it's about $9 a bottle. It is EXTREMELY crucial to keep your engine cool.

5. If or when you decide to change it yourself, make sure you get the newly revised bolt torque as well as a good gasket. When I heard the term "newly revised bolt torque setting", I'm suspecting maybe when these engines were built, they didn't torque them right and could be one of the culprits behind this gasket problem.

6. Make sure you clean out as much as you can of the goo/deposit inside the engine. My friend suggested throttle body cleaner to finish off the cleaning process as it evaporates quickly and doesn't leave hardly any residue. Any residue left, if any, will be instantly burned off when you start it anyway.

[ez4u2chere]

I went to the dealer this morning, pointed it out to the mechanic and then the mechanic pointed it out to the service manager. The service manager said "I really wish you would leave this with me so we can fix it today". I said "how much?" and the dealer grinned. I said "what I mean is how much is GM going to help me?".

He said he'd fix it for $200~. So should I take it? Or should I put up a stink? Seems like a pretty good deal seeing as though it saves me a day in the driveway, I don't have to get dirty, and I'll have a 12k mile warranty.

What's everyone's input?

[jamcllw]

Do it. That's very cheap for a LIM gasket repair.

[ez4u2chere]

Thanks for all the help everyone. It goes in tomorrow morning for repair. Hopefully we won't have anymore problems after this. ;)

[ez4u2chere]

I picked my car up tonight. $226 was the grand total.

The service manager told me that he did his best for me with getting GM to pay for it, but that's the best they could do.

He also told me that I'd be getting a survey in the mail from GM, and when I do to make certain I tell them their original intake manifold gasket is garbage and it should be recalled.

[Steberino]

Sorry for responding so late, but I finished changing out both Lower and Upper Intake Manifold Gasket last Sunday. I was out of town since then. Anyhow, yeah, $200 and some odd dollars for the repair IS a good deal. I spent about that in just parts, about $85 Lower & Upper IM gaskets, about $50 for Valve Cover gaskets, $40 for updated Lower IM bolts, $10 for new o-rings for the Fuel Injectors, $15 for part cleaner (3 cans of Gumout Throttle Body/Intake cleaner, they evaporate relatively quickly and virtually NO residue). So all in all, about $200 for parts.

In terms of time, I'd say it took me about 20 hours. Most time consuming part was marking and cataloguing all the parts. I was real careful to log everything I took off. I took a lot of time cleaning parts too. By the time I was done cleaning Upper and Lower IM's, it was so clean I could comb my hair off of it. :) I cleaned out the Fuel Injectors with some Q-Tips too.

When taking off the Fuel Rails and attached Fuel Injectors, be VERY gentle taking them out. They are sensitive parts and expensive parts. Cover them with a plastic bag when you put them aside. I recommend changing out the o-rings too.

When I took the Lower IM off, the biggest thing I noticed was the gunk almost blocking the entire coolant channels. I don't know how any coolant can even circulate like that. That was bad. However, Push Rods, Rocker Arms, Valves, Valve Springs, and pretty much the inside of my engine was in very good shape and very clean. My Alero is 99 V6 with 52,500 miles on it. I was especially impressed with how clean and virtually deposit-free my valves were. I use 92 Octane Chevron EVERY time, that shows how good of quality Chevron gas is. I also use Mobil One Fully Synthetic Oil and Purolator Pure One Oil Filter on my EVERY oil change. Push Rods and Rocker Arms showed practically no wear. That shows how good Mobil One Fully Synthetic Oil is.

You need to THOROUGHLY clean U & especially L IM as well as the mating surfaces on the block of any RTV or gasket material before you put it back together.

After cleaning out the coolant channels and cleaning out all the gasket mating surfaces, I proceeded to put Lower IM gasket on. I put high-temp RTV sealant around the coolant channel at about 1/16" lines. I wanted to provide extra seal around the coolant channel to completely separate coolant from the inside of the engine. I was careful not to have any seepage into the inside of the engine. I did this on the both sides of the gasket. Make sure you put a healthy amount of RTV sealant in the corners but be careful not to have RTV get into inside of the engine. Do not put RTV on the part of the gasket that will be inside of the engine!!! OUTER LINES ONLY!

One important thing to note is that you have to take the Push Rods and Rocker Arms off before you can remove the Lower IM gasket. DO NOT start on this project without a good torque wrench! When you put the Push Rods and Rocker Arms back in, make sure the rods line up well with the rocker arms before you tighten down the rocker arms. Also, rocker arm seating should be put back the same way. It's easy to be 180 degrees off. Look at the bottom of the rocker arm seating and you will see stains that will help you with the orientation. If the rods are too much off, you risk a SERIOUS damage to your engine! You will know if they are off or not when you first start up your engine after putting it back together. You will hear ticks, rattles, and clang if you didn't do it right. If you do, shut off your engine immediately! Readjust/align the rods and the rockers.

After you put the LIM gasket and LIM in, it's just a matter of putting it together. Follow GM's revised torque specs on IM bolts and I recommend getting revised LIM bolts with blue colored medium-strength Perma-(tex?, I forgot the exact name, but you will recognize it when you look for it at your auto part store.). Another hint, when you put the fuel injectors back in, dab some engine oil on the o-rings and it will go in easier. DO NOT use excessive force! Injectors are very delicate!

After I finished assembling everything, I turned the key to ON-position then OFF-position four-times to prime the fuel injectors. It was the moment of truth as I cranked the engine. It cranked for about 3 seconds and it fired up. I was listening carefully for any ticks, rattles, and clang. Nothing. CLEAN IDLE! My main worry was whether or not I lined up the Rods and the Rocker Arms straight, but it turned out that I did. The gasket's success or failure will only be told by time. I will update occasionally on this site the status of the coolant and the gasket.

YOU MUST CHANGE YOUR OIL AFTER THIS!!! Use some engine flush chemicals also and run it for about 25 miles. Then change the oil again. If you want to be perfectly sure, repeat the process one more time. Coolant left in your engine will make lifters as well as other parts goo-up with sludge and WILL lead to even more costly repairs!

I warmed my engine up and took it out for about a 20-mile test drive. Stop-and-go. Hard acceleration. Freeway cruise. Sitting at traffic lights. The initial test was a success. I will be listening and checking very carefully for the next 500 miles.

As of now, I am extremely happy that my car started up and that I didn't blow a rod or a rocker arm. Like I said, if you can get GM to pay for a portion of the repair cost and you don't have time for it and you can get it done for a little over $200, then by all means, do it. But if that is out of the question and you need to do it yourself, get yourself a Haynes repair manual (NOT Chilton's, it's not as detailed and extensive as Haynes), a good torque wrench, a good set of tools (mostly metric), and your cataloguing skills and you CAN change out your LIM gaskets yourself over a weekend.

If any of you are doing it yourself and you need some help, feel free to email me at stv98cor@hotmail.com or message me. I know this LIM gasket problem is haunthing almost all Alero owners and I will be happy to help anyone with this problem. Good Luck!

[ez4u2chere]

^^^Glad you got it worked out. Sounds like it was quite a chore. Wow, 20 hours, I'm glad I sucked up the $200.

[mdodge]

uh oh....low coolant light came on..... :pissed: :pissed:

Is this the reason?....

[ez4u2chere]

Looks like mine does/did, so I'd have to say...... yup, that's why.

[mdodge]

Great...... :pissed:

I have my car serviced at a firestone service station regularly, not at a gm dealer. Is there a way that they can do the work and gm still front the bill? Thanks.

[SouthDakotAlero]

It looks like I have the leak as well, so I called up my dealer and told the service manager about it today and he said the last one they did cost around $600-700. I still have to take it in for a diagnosis and then I guess I'll call up GM and see if they will pay for any of it. The service guy said they don't really do the GM Goodwill thing, so we'll see.

[ez4u2chere]

Originally posted by SouthDakotAlero@Jul 1 2004, 05:29 PM
It looks like I have the leak as well, so I called up my dealer and told the service manager about it today and he said the last one they did cost around $600-700. I still have to take it in for a diagnosis and then I guess I'll call up GM and see if they will pay for any of it. The service guy said they don't really do the GM Goodwill thing, so we'll see.
I didn't have to call GM. The dealership I went to took care of everything for me.

How did you make out?

[SouthDakotAlero]

Well I took my car in to get checked and it cost me $38 for them to tell me I had the leak. The service manager called GM for me and GM said they would pay for the parts, which came to $160, but not the labor, which came to $460. So I told them not to fix it and talked to the guy in charge of sales, who is a friend of my dad's and he took the estimate and said he would talk it over with the service manager. So I will find out tomorrow how much I will have to pay.

[ez4u2chere]

Originally posted by SouthDakotAlero@Jul 8 2004, 05:48 PM
Well I took my car in to get checked and it cost me $38 for them to tell me I had the leak. The service manager called GM for me and GM said they would pay for the parts, which came to $160, but not the labor, which came to $460. So I told them not to fix it and talked to the guy in charge of sales, who is a friend of my dad's and he took the estimate and said he would talk it over with the service manager. So I will find out tomorrow how much I will have to pay.
How many miles are on it? I'd be fighting that one.
Mine is a year older than yours and it was $226 for diagnosis, parts, labor, and tax.

[SouthDakotAlero]

My car has just over 43,000 miles. I'm pretty sure the cost will be bumped down to at least half of what they told me, if not more.

[SouthDakotAlero]

Well I got a call from the dealership today and they said they would fix the leak for FREE!! They guy who sold me the car was really fighting for me and said he had to pull some strings, but he got it done. Man am I glad.

[theirishgonzo]

let me tell you i have had that leak fixed once and i have to have it done agin also they havent found afew of my problems with my car.

[DCAleroGL]

I was idling my car to recharge the battery (still have the stocker at 50K, oops) and noticed the oil was low. Looked at the engine with a flashlight and watched oil bubble out of the driver's front side lower intake gasket, exactly where that first picture was showing a leak. I am losing a little coolant, but not so much I really noticed. My oil isn't showing any contamination, so I think I lucked out, I will let you guys know what happens when I take it to the dealer. I think my aftermarket extended warranty is about to pay for itself.
Here is a link to an online petition to have GM recall these gaskets and pay for these repairs. Please sign the petition, GM must be made accountable. :pissed:
Online Petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/GMcnsmrs/petition.html)

[theirishgonzo]

i had 1 too but i have the extended warentee so mine was free also got the recall fixed now i need to get my scratched windows replaced but delear said my extended warentee was olny power train but i thought it was bumper to bumper i payed over a grand for it

[DCAleroGL]

My aftermarket warranty (Ultimate Warranty Corp) states in the fine print that they cover "all parts covered during last year of factory warranty," and that means powertrain. They would laugh at me if I tried to have them replace glass. I payed about 1200 for mine and it is good until 100K. I already replaced the blower resistor ($250) and the steering pump ($600), so this repair should make the cost worth it. And I still have 47K miles to go on the warranty.
GM told me the Goodwill repair on this gasket is only for cars with under 50K, so make sure if you are almost at 50K, have it looked at, just in case. I have 53K, so I am glad for the warranty.
Irish, if you researched the glass, can it be removed professionally, or does the glass have to be replaced. I have some pretty deep scratches, but I would deal with them if I had to replace.

[misslindseysue]

I got goodwill for it at 58k. 60k is the upper limit for that, since it's the longest warrany they ever offered from Olds. The glass could be a warranty issue, search here more. It's caused by a known problem with the window mechanism.
Also, your warranty company totally got ripped off on that resistor. The part is less than $20, and it takes less than an hour (close to 30 min) to install.

[DCAleroGL]

Yeah, but the main cost was that the dealer charged me $150 for diagnostics and $100 for the repair. They pretended they never saw the issue before, and I hadn't joined this site yet, so I didn't know either. My warranty states in the fine print that it does not cover glass, but I will ask. Maybe they will pay to have the guide replaced.