Plan: Replacing front speakers and putting in an amp

[jrim]

I've already PM'd Ryan about this but I figured it would be a good idea to get general community input, too :lol:

I'm looking to swap out my front speakers for a set of components, probably Infinity Reference 5020cs (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1085020CS/Infinity-Reference-5020cs.html?tp=106&tab=detailed_info) .

I drive a 2002 alero (4 door) with the monsoon amp and tweeters in the front. I've read that the speakers in my doors are already 5.25" and I won't need an adapter of sorts to make them fit - is this true?

Also, do these Infinitys meet the depth restrictions so the speaker will actually fit in the door? Crutchfield says they're 2 5/16". I haven't really found a good number on depth restrictions while skimming posts.

And lastly, has anyone tried to specifically fit these Infinity 1" tweeters into the door sails?

I'm probably going to save the aftermarket deck purchase till later but I'll definitely be purchasing an amp to accompany this component set - I was kind of unclear on how much power the speakers actually put out though; is it 2-75 watts RMS per speaker? And does that include the tweeters? Or 2-75 total?

Thanks. :ninja:

[cherrington17]

in no particular order...


yes, that does include the tweeter in that power rating.

for the sails, you need to cut/dremel/sand a bunch of the plastic to get the 1" tweets to fit.

depth wise... i don't think anyone has figured out a specific # for how much/little we can have.

and i've never heard of an alero with 5.25" speakers up front. i think we all have 4x6. so you would need an adapter. (i could be wrong, i didn't have the monsoon)

[jayson_waltz]

and i've never heard of an alero with 5.25" speakers up front.
the monsoon system came with 5.25" speakers in the front

[jrim]

Okay, helpful information, thanks guys :)

Only one question wasn't addressed - does the RMS rating of 2-75 include both speakers or is it 2-75 watts per speaker?

[Ryan from Ohio]

The depth of the mid is 2 1/4"

http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Owner%27s%20Manual/ReferenceComponent_Tweeter_OM_2006.pdf

Power is 75 WRMS. I would shoot for 50 WRMS to the rated 75.

Shouldnt be to hard because your looking for 50-75WRMS @ 2 Ohms. Thats per side/channel.

If anything the retardedness of the 2 Ohm setup may bite you in the ass when you go to get an amplifier...

Personally I would skip these Infinities altogether. 2 Ohm speakers are evil. Especially when the Ohms drop - the distortion goes up ;)

[Ryan from Ohio]

I feel something wet in my pants:

http://woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4893

Oh ya... thats the stuff...

Heres more...
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372425&highlight=rainbow&page=2

6.5's but good ones ;)

Better than the 502's your thinking about, spend the extra ;)
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2934

[jrim]

I feel something wet in my pants:

http://woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4893

Oh ya... thats the stuff...

Heres more...
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372425&highlight=rainbow&page=2

6.5's but good ones ;)

Better than the 502's your thinking about, spend the extra ;)
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2934
Nice :)

I don't want the 6.5s because I don't want to have to mod my door panel. No adapters, I want this shit bolt on :lol:

As for the CDT and Infinity speakers you linked - I see you criticized 2 ohm speakers in your previous post but the Infinity speakers you linked are 2 ohm. I dunno which would sound better, the CDTs or the Infinitys.. hmm. They are both close to 100 watts RMS, so would I be good with a 200 watt RMS amp (100 watts on each side)?

I didn't understand the bit about 50-75 WRMS at 2 ohms, are you talking about my amplifier.. ?

[jrim]

These are interesting..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cadence-5-25-Convertable-Component-Speakers_W0QQitemZ270228941403QQihZ017QQcategoryZ1 4936QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksid Zp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

[cherrington17]

i've heard rainbow makes great stuff... but why does it look so cheap???

[jrim]

Eh, idk. I got lazy and went with a pair of filler 6x9s (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=120352576033) and a super cheap component setup, Pyle PLG5C. It will get the basic job done (better than factory sound and a fixed blown 6x9 to boot), that's what I'm lookin for :)

I just need help with buying an amp now.... I'm thinking I'll be able to wire the Boss Chaos speakers into the factory monsoon amp, right? I know I'll need an aftermarket amp for the Pyles but I'm confused as to what kind of amp I should be buying.. the speakers are rated at 150W RMS @ 4ohm

Edit: Oh and because the component set includes crossovers, should I stay away from an amp with built-in crossovers?

[jayson_waltz]

if you used the crossover in the amp you wouldn't use the one that came with the components, and you would have to run more wire into the doors. i'd just use the crossovers that came with the components.

[jrim]

if you used the crossover in the amp you wouldn't use the one that came with the components, and you would have to run more wire into the doors. i'd just use the crossovers that came with the components.

Got it, now how about the amp... can I wire the 2 6x9s into the monsoon and just buy a 2channel amp for the component system? I'm confused as to how many watts the amp needs to be. The 6x9s are rated at 175W RMS (bargain for $30 lol), could the monsoon hold those? If not, do I need a 4 channel amp that can spread 650W RMS (175+175+150+150) @ 4ohms? :cry:

[jayson_waltz]

if i remember right the speakers have to have separate low and high inputs to wire to the monsoon amp, but i almost for sure it won't puch 175rms.

[jrim]

if i remember right the speakers have to have separate low and high inputs to wire to the monsoon amp, but i almost for sure it won't puch 175rms.

yeah, probably. i'm thinking it would be easiest to wire em all to a 400 watt amp (100 x 4 @ 4 ohm), that should support every thing because I doubt I'll be delivering at max. W RMS of every speaker at a given time, and that's assuming that the ratings are correct. if i go overkill and by some freak chance it pumps out all 650w, won't the amp just cut out ? when the volume gets too high?

[[ion] C2]

you better come to ASS

that is all

[jrim]

lmao. :) i will do my best to get there... i'ma feel embarrassed tho, everyone elses shit is gonna be all modded and mine is nearly stock under the hood :P

[Ryan from Ohio]

if you used the crossover in the amp you wouldn't use the one that came with the components, and you would have to run more wire into the doors. i'd just use the crossovers that came with the components.

Not quite accurate. If you have the know how on how to run an active setup then OK. The basic crossovers in amps isnt ideal for this...

Im sorry to hear you cheaped out on your setup. That was a big mistake and like many before you, you will realize this later on.

I would not push more than100 wrms into those pyle comps. The rear 6x9s off deck power. But wait you have a stock deck?

argh.

Theres no good inbetween. If you have the monsoon its either all replacement or all monsoon. Anything inbetween = fail.

[jrim]

Not quite accurate. If you have the know how on how to run an active setup then OK. The basic crossovers in amps isnt ideal for this...

Im sorry to hear you cheaped out on your setup. That was a big mistake and like many before you, you will realize this later on.

We'll see haha, I didn't want subs (still don't), just something better than stock. We will see how this basic setup does for sound. I've read good reviews about the pyle comps.


I would not push more than100 wrms into those pyle comps. The rear 6x9s off deck power. But wait you have a stock deck?

argh.

Theres no good inbetween. If you have the monsoon its either all replacement or all monsoon. Anything inbetween = fail.
Okay, then I'll get a replacement deck. Assuming the deck handles the 6x9, I only need a 100 watt amp for the pyle comps? Are you absolutely positive I should only put in a 100 watt amp for comps rated at 150w RMS, and with 2 speakers that's 300W RMS? You're the expert on this man so I'm goin off of what you say

[Ryan from Ohio]

Well let me say this as easily as I can.

You didnt buy the best equipment around. That level of equipment almost always way over rates their products to get more sales.

For example you mention one of them being 300 wrms. If you put a tried and true 300 wrms into ANY of them you will have them blown in minutes if not seconds.

For those 6x9s I would run them off deck power. Two fold reason. 1) they are rear fill therefore you dont want to much power on them. They will drown out your fronts. 2) they probably wouldnt handle the power as wella s you might believe.

Now for the comps. After reviewing them I sure as hell wouldnt put more than 100 wrms into them.

Lets just leave the over powering at this. You over power them they blow. Cheap speakers blow easier.

Im awaiting the post on how shocked you are at install expense. To install them comps its going to cost you probably $75-100. probably $50 for the 6x9s. $100+ for the deck. As they need to run new wires. If they do it any other way they will be hacking your car up- which Im fairly sure thats what they are going to do...

This is a bad and expensive situation your in... Faced with doing it the right way with cheap equipment, or pay decent money for isntall and have your car hacked up.

Tough choices ahead.

[jrim]

Well let me say this as easily as I can.

You didnt buy the best equipment around. That level of equipment almost always way over rates their products to get more sales.

For example you mention one of them being 300 wrms. If you put a tried and true 300 wrms into ANY of them you will have them blown in minutes if not seconds.

For those 6x9s I would run them off deck power. Two fold reason. 1) they are rear fill therefore you dont want to much power on them. They will drown out your fronts. 2) they probably wouldnt handle the power as wella s you might believe.

Now for the comps. After reviewing them I sure as hell wouldnt put more than 100 wrms into them.

Lets just leave the over powering at this. You over power them they blow. Cheap speakers blow easier.

Im awaiting the post on how shocked you are at install expense. To install them comps its going to cost you probably $75-100. probably $50 for the 6x9s. $100+ for the deck. As they need to run new wires. If they do it any other way they will be hacking your car up- which Im fairly sure thats what they are going to do...

This is a bad and expensive situation your in... Faced with doing it the right way with cheap equipment, or pay decent money for isntall and have your car hacked up.

Tough choices ahead.

Okay. I wish I knew how to install this shit myself, those are insane prices lol.

Even if the cheap speakers blow, putting another pair of speakers in would just be a swap in-and-out, wouldn't it, assuming I use the same wire? So if I decide to upgrade to Infinitys if these sound like shit, will it be a huge hassle?

Just to clarify though, are we talking 100wrms per speaker or 100 wrms total? Need to know what kind of amp I'm shopping for here. (50w rms x 2 @ 4ohm and 100w rms x 2 @ 4ohm is a big difference, no?)

[Ryan from Ohio]

When talking about speakers for in the cabin and multi channel amps we usually (99% of the time) talk in wrms per channel.

I would look for a 100wrms x 2 @ 4 ohms. 50+ will still do you good.

And no not necessarly on the just pulling out/swapping. The tweeters are always customized. Thats why I say the install price is going to be steep. Someone has to do some altering to the sail panels.

[jrim]

When talking about speakers for in the cabin and multi channel amps we usually (99% of the time) talk in wrms per channel.

I would look for a 100wrms x 2 @ 4 ohms. 50+ will still do you good.

And no not necessarly on the just pulling out/swapping. The tweeters are always customized. Thats why I say the install price is going to be steep. Someone has to do some altering to the sail panels.

Got it. Thanks a lot for all of your help - even if you don't approve :haha:

[Ryan from Ohio]

Got it. Thanks a lot for all of your help - even if you don't approve :haha:

lol dont worry Ive seen it a million times quite literally.

People buy cheap equipment got to get it installed and about crap their pants at the price... One way or another it gets installed only for them to find out the stuff they bought wasnt good stuff and sounds pretty bad... Then they bad mouth the hobby or complain about their situation.

One thing I learned many years ago, you get what you pay for. This is very true in car audio. Never forget it.

[jrim]

lol dont worry Ive seen it a million times quite literally.

People buy cheap equipment got to get it installed and about crap their pants at the price... One way or another it gets installed only for them to find out the stuff they bought wasnt good stuff and sounds pretty bad... Then they bad mouth the hobby or complain about their situation.

One thing I learned many years ago, you get what you pay for. This is very true in car audio. Never forget it.

Definitely. If there's anything I've learned over the years, it's that you get what you pay for... I think I was just in a buying frenzy last night :P

Eh, I might just order a set of infinity 693.7i's or whatever the infinitys were that drop into the 6x9 spot real nicely to fix my blown speaker and hold off on the comps/HU/amp till I can afford a real decent set-up (same install price, same HU price, just more expensive comps... and therefore amp).

I might pay to have the speakers shipped back.. we'll see. Still thinkin about it.

[Ryan from Ohio]

Definitely. If there's anything I've learned over the years, it's that you get what you pay for... I think I was just in a buying frenzy last night :P

Eh, I might just order a set of infinity 693.7i's or whatever the infinitys were that drop into the 6x9 spot real nicely to fix my blown speaker and hold off on the comps/HU/amp till I can afford a real decent set-up (same install price, same HU price, just more expensive comps... and therefore amp).

I might pay to have the speakers shipped back.. we'll see. Still thinkin about it.

Just refuse the shipment when it gets to you. Goes back to the sender free ;)

[jrim]

Just refuse the shipment when it gets to you. Goes back to the sender free ;)

That works for UPS shipments, too?

[cherrington17]

People buy cheap equipment got to get it installed and about crap their pants at the price... One way or another it gets installed.


but after the cheap crap is in, later if he wants to upgrade, it should be nearly plug and play....


the hardware is already in place, just need to unclip and unbolt...

[jrim]

but after the cheap crap is in, later if he wants to upgrade, it should be nearly plug and play....


the hardware is already in place, just need to unclip and unbolt...

I was thinking that too but it will be cheaper in the long run to just wait till I can afford a decent setup all at once.

[Ryan from Ohio]

but after the cheap crap is in, later if he wants to upgrade, it should be nearly plug and play....


the hardware is already in place, just need to unclip and unbolt...

No not really. The tweeters will undoubtedly be different... the crossovers ill need to be remounted. Basically hes paying to have new wires run...

IMHO I would step back do some reading, wait a lil untill you can get something better and do it yourself.

[jrim]

I'll be shipping the cheap speakers back, I ordered new ones..

Rear 6x9: Pioneer TS-A6992R
Headunit: Kenwood Excelon KDC-X592

Now, onto components and amp - I'm leaning toward Infinity 50.9cs (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-qgBdLftrgT8/p_108509CS/Infinity-Kappa-50-9cs.html) but they are 2-ohm.. will that cause a problem with my 4-ohm rear deck speakers? I'd like to run all 6 (incl. tweeters) off of 1 amp if that's possible (4 channel set-up?) and I think the 2-ohm+4-ohm setup will interfere with that? Help me out Ryan :D

No, the 50.9cs will not be ordered from Crutchfield for that ridic price, they're $150 and under at eBay.

[Ryan from Ohio]

I dont have time to look right now, but I wouldnt order that Infinity set.

Same with the 6x9's.

im at work right now but can invest a few minutes later tonight.

I would look into CDT comps, maybe some used Rainbow I seen ;)

If you MUST have 6x9's Im rather fond of the Infinity Reference 2 WAYS!!!! 2 WAY :) 2 Way... Did I mention 2 way? Mores not better ;)

More later tonight...

[Ryan from Ohio]

Well hers some comps. I may have listed these before. These are all good choices in the $150 and under area.

Almani: These seem promising. Price looks good. These are touted as decent budget speaker. I can get them thru my connection for the $70 probably. Will have to check for sure though.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17845

Diamond: Good name brand. OK comps, nothing to fancy.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2856

Arc Audio: Another good brand. Arcs stuff is always decent.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=7329

CDT: CDT makes such a wide range of speakers you could get lost easily... These comps are entry line but still decent. Will sound good and get mediocre loud:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5208

These have an upgraded tweeter. Also shallow mount NEO magnets on the mids. IMHO for the money these wont be beat:
http://woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4893

6x9's.

Stick with a simple 2 way design. The 3 & 4 ways are not needed. I would get the same brand as your components (if they are reasonably priced).

CDT:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5435

Diamond:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6181

[jrim]

Yep, I'm not putting a subwoofer in so I'll need 6x9s to hit the lows.

Excellent, I'll be goin with http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5435 and http://woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4893 - the CDT set.

Thanks a lot Ryan :) :)

Now, that's 100W RMS x 2 (6x9s) and 90W RMS x 2 (comps) for a total of 380W RMS, at 4 ohm. Is my best option a 100Wx4 @ 4 ohm (400w) amp? I would assume so but just makin sure.

[jrim]

Was thinking about these amps, assuming my last post was correct:

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2588 4x100W RMS @ 4 ohm

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4879 - this one is only 80wx4 @ 4ohm but i dunno ?

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3550 4x125W RMS @ 4 Ohm

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6541 4x100W RMS @ 4 ohm

[Ryan from Ohio]

OMG no way... lolz. Out of all them the Profile is least crappiest. :lol:

get this:
http://www.cadencestore.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=125&idproduct=383

Then you will need wiring...

ever think you will upgrade?
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOL-AK44

i will check with my guy and see what kind of wiring he has available. Be aware that all wiring kits arent the same! Some lie...

Ref:
http://www.caraudiocentral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8263&highlight=raptor

[jrim]

I went to Car Tunes today, a local audio shop.

$983 installed (incl. wiring, taxes, etc) for a 100W RMS x 4 Alpine amp, a premier deck with usb/cd (all I'm looking for), and JL 6x9s/comps. The best part is I get a 3-year warranty on the deck and a 1yr on the amp+speakers.

If I blow a speaker in a week that I ordered online, it will be a hassle with the seller depending on where I ordered it, not to mention I'll need to pay CarTunes to remove the speaker so that I can send it back if it's a door speaker or tweeter.

However, if I blow a speaker from my CarTunes package, they will swap it out for a fixed one at no cost, within the first year. Much better & less hassle.

It's more $$ to get my warranty-guarantee but saves me money in the long run.

I'll be shipping back the deck and wiring harness that I ordered; I was lucky enough to be able to cancel the speakers orders before they shipped.

This thread can be closed now but I'd like to thank everyone - especially Ryan - for their input. :)

[Ryan from Ohio]

Well if thats what you want.

What JL Speaker sets are they selling you, the very bottom end ones I assume.

What were they quoting you for installing stuff.

See places like that dont want to install your equipment anyhow, because they havent had the chance to bend you over the counter yet... lol

Now the truth and reality is simple: Chance of you blowing a speaker IF setup properly- next to 0%.

Chance your amp will go bad: Probably .05%. When they come out the box they are either good or bad.

Same with decks.

They sold you on fear.

[cherrington17]

if ryan does anything well... its giving you the cold hard truth...

....AND .... making you feel like a total tard in teh process. :lol:

[Ryan from Ohio]

Well to keep things on the up and up around here, I was talking with him about doing his install- at his place.

I priced him $170 for the install. You can see the equipment prices he was looking at/picking with my recommendations. Not sure what he was doing with a head unit choice though...

But comps/speakers : $220+ ship
Amps: $129 shipped
Wiring: $50 + ship
Install: $170
Head Unit (Im gonna guess here:) $200

The cold hard truth is Car Tunes like any other place will almost undoubtedly take short cuts through out the install process. I warned him about that in my PM. From using cheap/inferior crimps to the twist and tape method on the head units. Hacking into factory wiring instead of running new wires. Surface mounting the tweeters in an odd fashion.

I can almost guarantee you they will want to mount the tweeters "onto" the A Pillars. They wont take the time to mod the sails- which is where its at.

But meh, he will see it. I wish him luck. And the best advice I can give you is to stay there and observe if possible. They probably wont allow you though but push the subject if they want the sale. When the customer isnt watching places take short cuts. It happens ALL the time. Make sure they solder the head units connections, run new speaker wires and flush mount the tweeters. Also make sure they put the tweeters on about a 5 degree angle into the cabin, slightly angled downward. This will provide the best off axis response. If they try to aim the tweeters at your head- you will want to kill these people.

Also take note that when/if you have a problem they will want to sell you a "fix" and not fix the underlying problem.

Classic brick and mortar car audio tactics.

Been there and done that in my years of experience.

:drunk:

[jrim]

Now the truth and reality is simple: Chance of you blowing a speaker IF setup properly- next to 0%.

Then how did I blow my rear factory speakers:(



They sold you on fear.
This is not true. They sold me on a warranty and solid reputation.

[jrim]

Well to keep things on the up and up around here, I was talking with him about doing his install- at his place.

I priced him $170 for the install. You can see the equipment prices he was looking at/picking with my recommendations. Not sure what he was doing with a head unit choice though...

But comps/speakers : $220+ ship
Amps: $129 shipped
Wiring: $50 + ship
Install: $170
Head Unit (Im gonna guess here:) $200

So ~$200 less than having Car Tunes do it. For a 1 year warranty on the amp/speakers and a 3 year on the deck, including THEFT warranty, I think it holds true here, as you said earlier in the thread: you get what you pay for.


The cold hard truth is Car Tunes like any other place will almost undoubtedly take short cuts through out the install process. I warned him about that in my PM. From using cheap/inferior crimps to the twist and tape method on the head units. Hacking into factory wiring instead of running new wires. Surface mounting the tweeters in an odd fashion.

I can almost guarantee you they will want to mount the tweeters "onto" the A Pillars. They wont take the time to mod the sails- which is where its at.

But meh, he will see it. I wish him luck. And the best advice I can give you is to stay there and observe if possible. They probably wont allow you though but push the subject if they want the sale. When the customer isnt watching places take short cuts. It happens ALL the time. Make sure they solder the head units connections, run new speaker wires and flush mount the tweeters. Also make sure they put the tweeters on about a 5 degree angle into the cabin, slightly angled downward. This will provide the best off axis response. If they try to aim the tweeters at your head- you will want to kill these people.

Also take note that when/if you have a problem they will want to sell you a "fix" and not fix the underlying problem.

Classic brick and mortar car audio tactics.

Been there and done that in my years of experience.

:drunk:
It remains to be seen... hypothesizing is the easy part, now let's see what they do eh?
Yeah, I wouldn't mind observing.

[Ryan from Ohio]

Thats the user side, misuse.


Usually thats not covered by warranty anyhow. Sure they might remove and reinstall it, but once they take the speaker and inspect it and deem the issue misuse- you will have to pay a certain amount.

I hear their commercials on the radio. No experience with them. But almost all of these places are the same.

I would watch them like a hawk.

[jrim]

Will do. Oh I forgot to add that they offer a lifetime warranty on their labor, so I doubt they would wire it up funky if it's going to fail down the road due to half-assing but, as they say, when you assume, you make an ass of you and me lol :)

[Ryan from Ohio]

So ~$200 less than having Car Tunes do it. For a 1 year warranty on the amp/speakers and a 3 year on the deck, including THEFT warranty, I think it holds true here, as you said earlier in the thread: you get what you pay for.


It remains to be seen... hypothesizing is the easy part, now let's see what they do eh?
Yeah, I wouldn't mind observing.


Whats this theft warranty?

If someone breaks into your car to steal the gear they replace it for you?

If so thats a good deal! Most insurers wont insure anything than factory audio anymore unless you purchase extra insurance!