Takata & DRs

[[ion] C2]

Used the DRs at the track today. No problem hooking up. Still slow as hell. Methanol isn't even cooling it in hot days. The likely progression of my engine will be MP62 @ 13-14 PSI, and then Garrett turbocharger with FMIC and CO2 intercooler sprayer. I hate high temps. They're killing everything. My tune goes way off, AFRs go to 13s, boost is only 6 psi (normal 8-10) and the car gets slow(er).

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[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

do those seatbelts stay tight? mine always get loosened up after a couple in-and-outs.

[kwhauck]

that is a problem when you are trying to push high boost with a hEaton, they build up a shitload of heat and their effeciency goes down fast....

[DOHC_tuner]

So the drag radials didnt help and the high temp. just hurt more?

And did I just read twin boost?:scpimp:

[[ion] C2]

@AlbinoMonkeyRat: The harness is just set in there for pictures, I just got it today. The other free one will take some more time to get. I was supposed to get a pair.

@kwhauck: Yep. On the street at night things are perfect... I wish I could use an FMIC or even an L2A integrated. Even the MP62 setup won't use a static intercooling option. So after that I'll turbo and use some real cooling.

@DOHC_tuner: No, no reason to twincharge.

[kwhauck]

if you are making the m62 manifold custom you need to look at something small and effecient.....maybe like this......

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=363&catid=139

[[ion] C2]

Those are pretty sweet. In the initial planning phase I considered using Laminova cores like the Cobalt has, but... now I'm currently redesigning the manifold to accomodate an FMIC.

[kwhauck]

C2;454688']Those are pretty sweet. In the initial planning phase I considered using Laminova cores like the Cobalt has, but... now I'm currently redesigning the manifold to accomodate an FMIC.

why? when working in tight spaces W2A is much more efficient......

[[ion] C2]

I like big front mount intercoolers. With sweet CO2 sprayers.

[kwhauck]

i kind of figured that, but had to ask anyways, i'll stick with hiding the w2a in the engine bay, i don't need no big ass FMIC.......

[Oldsman]

at what boost is the methanol kicking in and are you using a jet to mist it into the manifold? Also where is the methanol being injected into, before or after s/c? I had a buddy use alcohol injection on his GN and it helped a lot but he use 90% alcohol from walgreens. Maybe your washer fluid isn't providing enough methanol to actually work.

[[ion] C2]

I'm using VP Racing Fuels M-1 Methanol. 99.95% purity. Mixed 50/50 with distilled water.

I have it turning on at 3 psi (although at WOT it's instantaneously beyond that so it's irrelevant), and it has a Coolingmist M5 nozzle (the proper one for my setup) placed just before the throttle body, before the supercharger, so it cools throughout it.

It works great at night time. My temps never go above 120 and they're instantly back down. But again, it only cools the air when boosting. No static intercooling. So right after a run I park it and the temps just go up... start of the next run, temps start at 130+... methanol can only do so much.

[Oldsman]

so your hoping that it will cool the air enough to counter act the s/c. I think this is were the issue is. you really should be spraying it after the charger. this is what all the GN people did and even the s/c GA like spaz and aaron were spraying N2O after the charger in order to cool the air before it goes into the motor. Also another advantage of the meth or alcohol is you can increase boost some on say 93 octane fuel.

Honestly i think going to the M62 will be a waste of money being you won't be happy with the results being you'll get what 12 psi and maybe some better cooling but for all the money it will not be the best bang for your buck.

[AleroB888]

C2;454714']........So right after a run I park it and the temps just go up... start of the next run, temps start at 130+...

You have to cool it down between runs, there are water hosing stations at the track up here, or fill bottles and pour it on, which is what I do at the track in Kentucky... If you don't, forget about getting decent times consistently.

[[ion] C2]

So what, you want me to go directly to the snail? A chilled 14 PSI from an MP62 won't be good for low 13s? P&P blower, P&P head, then direct port 100HP nitrous for 12s? Not happy with the results? I think I will be. If the MP62 doesn't seem suitable, I can EASILY sell the setup. It's a greatly desired system on j-body. And then I can go to a GT30R.

With the new manifold design I'll be able to spray meth after the supercharger, but likely won't, as an FMIC and CO2 sprayer on the intercooler should be fine.

[mfuller]

I would tend to agree with Scot; that if you are intending to cool the intake charge with meth (or nitrous), you should inject it after the blower. However, I don't know how you would equalize the distribution to all cylinders, since the blower basically sits right on top of the intake manifold. Maybe a direct-port is the best way to go......or just ditch the blower and go with a intercooled snail.

[[ion] C2]

Instead I'm doing an intercooled roots blower. And then direct port nitrous.

Direct port meth is for vehicles making 1000+ hp, all methanol injection system manufacturers say this. They also claim injection before a roots blower is good. Seemed to work great for the other j-body guys. Doesn't seem to help me once temps get too high. Like I said, at nighttime it's perfect. A 20 second pull goes 70-120 degrees, and then even goes down while WOT-ing.... but in the daytime at a hot track it doesn't work as well.

[mfuller]

I have to wonder what meth does to the coating on the rotor lobes.....

[[ion] C2]

It's an abratable coating, not Teflon, as so many seem to think. Methanol is perfectly fine for it. EATON approves.

[AleroB888]

so your hoping that it will cool the air enough to counter act the s/c. I think this is were the issue is. you really should be spraying it after the charger.

That's true, I used to spray pure methanol into the throttle body, had the air going into it down to 32 degrees and sometimes even lower...

BUT, the air coming out of the supercharger was still about 30-45 degrees above ambient, not very efficient,

AND, the vaporized methanol displaced and reduced the amount of air entering the system. (that also happens injected after the SC, but to a lesser extent)

Also another advantage of the meth or alcohol is you can increase boost some on say 93 octane fuel.

I disagree with that, if you're saying it will increase octane very much. Figure the amount of alcohol injected as a percentage of the total amount of fuel consumed, and the increase in octane is minimal.

[AleroB888]

I have to wonder what meth does to the coating on the rotor lobes.....

What coating? :lol:

[Oldsman]

a m62 on a 3400 with n2o was olny running mid 13's so will your mp62 with 14 psi and an intercooler get you to low 13's i would say no. realisticly i would say high 13's. 14 psi if i remember correctly is at the point of being ineffiencent so it will take a a lot of cooling to make it really worth it. just like on the m45 the difference between 8psi and 10psi was 1hp that was dynoed on j-body.

If you want to be different go the s/c setup but based on your expetations a turbo would be best. Or go with a M90 setup and get that to work.

[[ion] C2]

That's comical. An MP45 2.4L with a tiny amount of nitrous runs mid 13s. Most moderately modified MP62 setups on the 2.2L Ecotec run mid 13s. Airtonics runs high 12s with no methanol, no nitrous.

Remember, it's an MP62, 5th generation, not the shitty old M62.

[Oldsman]

I disagree with that, if you're saying it will increase octane very much. Figure the amount of alcohol injected as a percentage of the total amount of fuel consumed, and the increase in octane is minimal.

well based off results on a 87 GN with the alcohol injection on 93 pump gas he went from 19psi to 24psi before detenation. with racing fuel it was able to achieve 28psi. So maybe it does increase octane but it does allow you to run a higher boost before detenation that has been proven on the GN's.

[Oldsman]

C2;454738']That's comical. An MP45 2.4L with a tiny amount of nitrous runs mid 13s. Most moderately modified MP62 setups on the 2.2L Ecotec run mid 13s. Airtonics runs high 12s with no methanol, no nitrous.

Remember, it's an MP62, 5th generation, not the shitty old M62.

now figure in the weight factor of our n-bodies and the mid 13's turn into low 14's to high 13's. A lot depends on air temp, humidity, elevation, etc which i am sure you know.

ok mp62.......so at what rpm of the charger does it become ineffiencent and what pully size puts it at that point and that is what psi of boost?

[[ion] C2]

... The j-body is not that much lighter. and i'm at only 600' elevation.. and next time I go to the track will be in the evening.

Who knows what the efficiency range is. I don't have the map on me. I know it's far more efficient than the MP45 and plenty are spinning them to 15+ psi on the Cobalts making good power. It's definitely better than the MP45. We'll find out.

[AleroB888]

now figure in the weight factor of our n-bodies and the mid 13's turn into low 14's to high 13's. A lot depends on air temp, humidity, elevation, etc which i am sure you know.

ok mp62.......so at what rpm of the charger does it become ineffiencent and what pully size puts it at that point and that is what psi of boost?

I am getting 10-13 psi usable boost on the 3400, the drivetrain will fail before the SC does in my case. Temperature rises only 8-13 deg. in a 1/4 mile run, depending on ambient air. Boost level will decrease a bit as you make the exhaust less restrictive. 2.0 pulley, 5800-5900 rpm shift points. Somebody else do the math.

[[ion] C2]

... The j-body is not that much lighter. and i'm at only 600' elevation.. and next time I go to the track will be in the evening.

Who knows what the efficiency range is. I don't have the map on me. I know it's far more efficient than the MP45 and plenty are spinning them to 15+ psi on the Cobalts making good power. It's definitely better than the MP45. We'll find out.

[Spilner521]

C2;454725']So what, you want me to go directly to the snail? A chilled 14 PSI from an MP62 won't be good for low 13s? P&P blower, P&P head, then direct port 100HP nitrous for 12s? Not happy with the results? I think I will be. If the MP62 doesn't seem suitable, I can EASILY sell the setup. It's a greatly desired system on j-body. And then I can go to a GT30R.

With the new manifold design I'll be able to spray meth after the supercharger, but likely won't, as an FMIC and CO2 sprayer on the intercooler should be fine.
So you want to P&P the blower, P&P the head and add a 100 shot of nitrous, plus some meth, all on a custom MP62 setup to fit the LD9, while making the whole setup able to run a FMIC, and then spray the intercooler with CO2?

I think you're going a little overboard here.

I think you'd be better of spending the money once, doing the work once and and getting your desired results quicker by going with a 3076R. You already have the built engine, and a very simple setup would put you easily into the low-mid 12's. Plus, you really don't need the intercooler sprayer. Get yourself a good sized core that will fill that bumper right up and you'll be just fine keeping the charge temps down. You can even still keep the meth injection and turn up the boost a little more while staying on pump gas.

I know you like the superchargers, but you're trying to push too much out of them to get to where you want to be. There comes a time when you have ask yourself if you're doing too much just because you want that certain setup to work, especially when something different will get you the same results easier and leave you room to turn up the wick some more.

[kwhauck]

i have to agree ^^^^^ don't waste your money on the m62 project if you are eventually gonna go turbo, and who cares what generation the maggie is, it still sucks in comparison with a turbo on the effeciency scale......and if you do stay supercharger, why is it that almost all of the hardcorse cobalt/redline guys immediately looked at a whipple/tvs upgrade?

and all this talk of 12s and low 13s, you haven't even made it in to the 13s yet.......

[[ion] C2]

I already have the MP62, and all the parts. I can get the MP62 manifold done for cheap or free.

I have zero money coming in.. so it's hard to buy a bunch of turbo parts. I mean... I could find a way to get the basic setup using that .48/.42 Garrett, as almost everything I need only puts me at around $500.

[Oldsman]

Chris, like i said, if you want to do the s/c setup to be different, more power to you. But be happy with whatever results you get at the track.