E85????

[Alerojester]

i was reading through Super Street while waiting for the wife to get off work, and read an artical about how E85 is the new 105, and beings its cheaper then regular gas i began wondering what it would take to convert from normal gas to E85?? i haven't done too much research on it as of yet just wanted to throw it out there on here and see if anyone else has thought about the conversion......

[[ion] C2]

Sure it's cheaper, but fuel economy goes wayyyy down too.

[kwhauck]

if you have a stock motor, you don't need it, but yes it is cheap race gas, it is readily available at almost every gas station in the midwest, and I fully intend on running e85 full time with my built motor.

[Redog]

I'm pretty sure E85 in a motor that's not built for it will eat thru gaskets like a fat kid in a candy store

[Alerojester]

yeah that's what i was thinking too redog, and i was planning on building a turbo motor with the one that's in my car at this very moment. I am planning on buying another engine so the car will run again. and i will have something i can tinker with in my free time while it snows this winter

[alerored04]

/\ I don't think that is true. I have heard that it is corrosive to rubber so eventually it will eat through fuel lines but I am pretty sure that is rumor as well. Just will require the appropriate mods to need it, larger injectors since you need to burn more of it at once, and a tune.

[robalero]

you need larger injectors and tuning it, I know of people who have done it to older aurora's ( well one person who claims he did anyways no real proof ) and thats what he said he had done other then that I really don't have any idea of how to do it and id just stick with regular gas since its not that bad of a price right now anyways

[Alerojester]

true true but E85 is $1.82/gallon

[Ryan from Ohio]

E85- just say no!

I tried it and it didnt work well... The car started acting up.

I tried a 50/50 mix seemed ok. Second time I filled up from E with it. Never again!

[[ion] C2]

^You tuned it right? With bigger injectors? Lol. The AFR for E85 is like 9.7:1 compared to gasoline's 14.7:1..

[Alerojester]

ok 91 it is then

[Redog]

When Bbody.org was still around there was a guy in Brazil with a 1978 Buick LaSaber and that's all they offer. It worked out to be something like .80 cents a gallon in American money.

Well his car ran like shit, wouldn't go above 60, and had a hard start.

I'm sure if you tune and rebuild with E85 freindly gaskets, the engine wouldn't really know the difference. However the closest E85 station to Philly is between Harrisburg and Pittsburg, way off the turnpike, in the backwater sticks somewhere

[BlackJack]

E85 isn't worth it for a daily driver. The consumption rate offsets and overtakes the lower price.

[AleroB888]

When I was at the track in Denver back in August, there was a guy named Zach out there, who runs a stock Grand Prix, with the Gen III M90. He was running E85 with everything else basically stock except the injectors, CAI, pulley change, and DHP tuning. He was running 13.7's all night to my 14.0's on that occasion, and wasn't even doing complete cool-downs. I believe that could get high 12's at a lower track.

I have not seen him since to find out longer term effects on the car, but that was pretty impressive. Zach said he was president of Rocky Mountain Club Grand Prix ( I think that's the name) , but I don't have a link to it.

I have also run straight E85 a time or two, and the car ran fine, maybe a little cooler, and cleaner. But I did not have larger injectors in long enough to power test it , or get a good tune on it.

[spyhunter]

I'm pretty sure E85 in a motor that's not built for it will eat thru gaskets like a fat kid in a candy store

not true.

[spyhunter]

/\ I don't think that is true. I have heard that it is corrosive to rubber so eventually it will eat through fuel lines but I am pretty sure that is rumor as well. Just will require the appropriate mods to need it, larger injectors since you need to burn more of it at once, and a tune.

Most later model cars example, n-bodies will be fine for the most part.

[spyhunter]

e85 is the new c16. In some states, running race fuel is 100% illegal. E85 is more or less 105 octane. Your car needs more of it to run right.

On boosted motors it gives the effect of 105octane, along w/ the cooling effects of alcohol. It's like crack on a car when a car is setup properly fueling wise.

Local shop here in Vegas, which coincidentally I have frequented many many many times. Has done e85 conversions on datsuns, mitsubishis, hondas, nissans... quite a few vehicles. Even the old ass datsuns, w/ new fuel lines ran like a champ when properly tuned.

It's not cost prohibitive, but fuel economy does go down. However if you're wanting to make some good power on a boosted setup, it's a an absolutely delightful option when it is accessible.

Word of warning again. You can't just dump it into your gas tank and think you're going to be aokay. You absolutely 100% need to retune the car for it.

[BlackJack]

I'd love to know how they run the tuning on that flex fuel shit. Just dump whatever you feel like in it, and it runs just fine.

[-Alero-]

+1 On what spy said, its perfectly safe on stock fuel systems and cars designed to run on gasoline. All it requires is a tune, because of its resistance to burn ethanol has best been used as an octave booster. Even back in the early 1900s it was primarily used as an alternative fuel.... until people abused it by drinking it.

[Ryan from Ohio]

If your car is not made for use with it then dont use it.

Pretty simple.

Go ahead and try when your on E next time.

Isnt this the fuel that will gel stuff up and clog injectors???

[-Alero-]

Ryan, think of ethanol as an alcohol, it evaporates just as fuel would, and is actually printable without petroleum products added to it. It's possible The gel might be from methanol... I don't know much about methanol only that its the fuel to be careful with.

[Alerojester]

like i had said if i decide to use E85 it would be on a boosted engine not the stock one... but on the availablity i have 5 stations around me all within 10 min. but that is cause im from iowa and of course it comes from here, and another side note if there were to be a E85 fire there has to be a special fire surpressant water won't do anything to put it out you have to have a foam to fully put it out........

[clutch1]

I'd love to know how they run the tuning on that flex fuel shit. Just dump whatever you feel like in it, and it runs just fine.

Tuning changes depending on what gas is in it... looks at reading from O2 sensor and corrects appropriately, IIRC.

[widbyj]

Fuel trim for the win! Most newer ECMs could adjust for E85. The real issue is changing to ethanol compatible fuel lines and etc....

[-Alero-]

Fuel trim for the win! Most newer ECMs could adjust for E85. The real issue is changing to ethanol compatible fuel lines and etc....

There's no such thing as ethanol compatible fuel lines. Think about it....... you run ethanol in your car everyday. The government is actually thinking about bringing up the minimum of 10% to 15% in all fuels

[spyhunter]

If your car is not made for use with it then dont use it.

Pretty simple.

Go ahead and try when your on E next time.

Isnt this the fuel that will gel stuff up and clog injectors???

bio-diesel dawg.

[spyhunter]

There's no such thing as ethanol compatible fuel lines. Think about it....... you run ethanol in your car everyday. The government is actually thinking about bringing up the minimum of 10% to 15% in all fuels

Some places is already at 15%.

The fuel lines in late model cars are already made to take ethanol blended fuels.

[spyhunter]

Fuel trim for the win! Most newer ECMs could adjust for E85. The real issue is changing to ethanol compatible fuel lines and etc....

what you're saying... actually isn't the big issue.

[Alerojester]

Spy i like how your kinda seeing it as something that's possible without discuraging someone

[kwhauck]

it is possible, there is a shop in south dakota that specializes in tuning big HP cars on e85, and they have worked with HP tuners

[Alerojester]

thank you Kyle for that piece of information as im still on the fence post about doing it with the boosted engine when it gets done

[Cliff8928]

Just don't do it expecting fuel to cost less... You're going to burn E85 significantly faster than gasoline.

[clutch1]

There ARE specific gaskets out there for E85.. one GM V8 uses for sure I know (The that develops a lot of internal vac leaks... forget the actual engine name). The E85 ones are green, vs normal ones which are red or something.

Despite supposedly being safe even in a non flexfuel car, I'd never pump E85 into my tank. Too risky for no gain, IMO.

Normal fuel has up to 10% ethanol in it.. I've tested my gas a couple times for the hell of it around here, and I've gotten 2 maybe 3% ethanol in it. Not much.. but regardless, it's not the same as E85.

Would you rather dip your hand in a glass with a 5% mixture of acid.. or an 85% mixture of acid?

Power to ya if you're running E85 in a non compatible car, you're proving me wrong.. but I don't need anything else to worry about breaking on my vehicles.

[spyhunter]

There ARE specific gaskets out there for E85.. one GM V8 uses for sure I know (The that develops a lot of internal vac leaks... forget the actual engine name). The E85 ones are green, vs normal ones which are red or something.

Despite supposedly being safe even in a non flexfuel car, I'd never pump E85 into my tank. Too risky for no gain, IMO.

Normal fuel has up to 10% ethanol in it.. I've tested my gas a couple times for the hell of it around here, and I've gotten 2 maybe 3% ethanol in it. Not much.. but regardless, it's not the same as E85.

Would you rather dip your hand in a glass with a 5% mixture of acid.. or an 85% mixture of acid?

Power to ya if you're running E85 in a non compatible car, you're proving me wrong.. but I don't need anything else to worry about breaking on my vehicles.

You also sound like the type of person that would forget about the part about setting up the fuel system to handle e85 & blow your car up.

The part about it being too risky for no gain is absolutely 100% false. When someone wants to retune their vehicle on e85, here's what you tend to gain. Your emissions go down, the ethanol cleans out your fuel system (which is why you should change your fuel filter after a few hundred miles into the e85 conversion), and the bump up in octane allows you to tune in more ignition advance then stock, also as already mentioned it has a cooling effect on boosted applications & acts like crack for the car YUM!

Here's another thing that people don't realize. Running c16 will fuck up your car too if you don't set it up right for your car.

here's my experience, been there seen it know it works, when done properly.

Your comment about acid is laughable. E85 is not on that level at all that it's going to eat our motors & fuel lines to pieces.

[BlackJack]

Yeah, no shit about the running more timing advance and cooling on boost. I was tuning with 91 mogas and had some wicked KR that I couldn't tune out with fuel and only went away with a ridiculous amount of timing reduction. I put in E85 and retuned....holy crap, the KR went away almost completely. Was able to run more timing with no issues.

[natedawg9640]

a word of caution regarding the octane levels of e85... i read a blurb somewhere not overly long ago that followed a study that took samples and check the octane level of e85 fuel from an array of gas stations across the midwest. they got readings all the way from 110+, to below 85. notice that e85 is not labeled as having a certain octane level. as a generality, yes it's high, but the longer it sits, the worse it gets. so if you are maxed out on timing and tuned for 100 for example, and you get a batch of sub 85, you're engine is going to hate you.

[AleroB888]

a word of caution regarding the octane levels of e85... i read a blurb somewhere not overly long ago that followed a study that took samples and check the octane level of e85 fuel from an array of gas stations across the midwest. they got readings all the way from 110+, to below 85. notice that e85 is not labeled as having a certain octane level. as a generality, yes it's high, but the longer it sits, the worse it gets. so if you are maxed out on timing and tuned for 100 for example, and you get a batch of sub 85, you're engine is going to hate you.

I believe that the "Main Spark, Low Octane" table in the PCM may compensate and pull timing out in that situation, at least in theory. However, some tuners copy the High Octane table onto the Low Octane table as part of their tuning method.

[clutch1]

You also sound like the type of person that would forget about the part about setting up the fuel system to handle e85 & blow your car up.


Your comment about acid is laughable. E85 is not on that level at all that it's going to eat our motors & fuel lines to pieces.

Why yes, I am a rube who knows nothing about cars.


The acid is a comparison. Obviously E85 isn't caustic. But the point is it's not good for rubber parts that weren't meant for it to be around. Keep putting E85 in a classic car and the fuel system's toast. Normal gasoline won't do that. There's obviously a different in it's corrosive properties towards rubber parts. E85 vehicles have slightly different rubber parts.. should a normal car hold up to it.. yea, but they're only engineered to see levels of 10% or lower.

And since apparently we're making generalizations about people in this thread.. YOU sound like the kind of person who makes dumbass generalizations that have nothing to do with what I posted.

[spyhunter]

Why yes, I am a rube who knows nothing about cars.


The acid is a comparison. Obviously E85 isn't caustic. But the point is it's not good for rubber parts that weren't meant for it to be around. Keep putting E85 in a classic car and the fuel system's toast. Normal gasoline won't do that. There's obviously a different in it's corrosive properties towards rubber parts. E85 vehicles have slightly different rubber parts.. should a normal car hold up to it.. yea, but they're only engineered to see levels of 10% or lower.

And since apparently we're making generalizations about people in this thread.. YOU sound like the kind of person who makes dumbass generalizations that have nothing to do with what I posted.


I've just seen and was elbows deep in quite a few cars that have ran for more than just a season on the juice. You are making it sound like a car is going to fall apart if it runs the good stuff for more than a year. If I wanted to I could point out a helluva lot of cars that have proven that theory wrong.

[kwhauck]

a word of caution regarding the octane levels of e85... i read a blurb somewhere not overly long ago that followed a study that took samples and check the octane level of e85 fuel from an array of gas stations across the midwest. they got readings all the way from 110+, to below 85. notice that e85 is not labeled as having a certain octane level. as a generality, yes it's high, but the longer it sits, the worse it gets. so if you are maxed out on timing and tuned for 100 for example, and you get a batch of sub 85, you're engine is going to hate you.


Part of this is true, however, anybody that does their research should know that when using e85 you test everytime you fill, (if tuning for max power) and add pure ethanol to bump it up. There are also winter and summer grades of e85 that can account for these differences.