Suspension Info

[XanderWiFi]

I am sure this thread will ignite some anger but I assure you, I thoroughly searched. Everything pertaining to this topic is that has been posted is curtailed to a specific need/desire. So I had to ask not only for the general information of it, but what advice I could receive to suit my specific situation.

I have seen where Ion wanted suspension for a roadway race, I know of another member that does the rally cross and requires certain specs for that and there was another that just wanted something cheap and functional. A lot of threads are old and the same products are not offered (like eibachs from what I understand).

So here goes. After my rims and new tires the remark I have received most often is to lower my car. So I am interested in what setup would suit me best. Money is not an issue, performance is handy but look and practicality are key in my search. I have looked on aleromod.com upgrades by Ion but I would like to hear if there are other options available that are new or unmentioned.

Other things I am curious about is with lowering springs, what else on the suspension should be completed in conjunction? Struts? I read in another post about mounts going bad if you can hear squeaking (which I do). I plan to have anything and everything installed professionally because I do not have the tools nor do I desire the risk with compressing springs.

I'll take it all please.

[Ttop191]

Dropzones on KYB AGX's with new mounts, do an alignment and call it a day ;)

[alero_bmxer]

I have canuk motorsport lowering springs (2'') on KYB GR-2's and all new mounts. love the ride... not honda civic stiff

[kROntast1c]

How much do dropzones "drop"?

[03Sleepr]

new mounts, KYB AGX's and either sprint, or H&R, I'm on sprints now but someday I want H&R

[cherrington17]

while we're on the topic... how is it possible that if we lower from 4x4 height, the ride gets more stiff and less comfy.

yet "luxury" cars come already that low, and are very comfy (more than our stock ride is) to ride in? Why is there no option to lower, and maintain a soft ride?

[Ttop191]

when we get shorter springs we need to compensate for the distance by increasing the stiffness, if we were to have springs with low spring rate (softer ride) the struts would bottom out causing damage, on a luxury car the struts aren't as large which is why the car sits lower in the first place, while maintaining a "stock style" soft ride.

[colonel6632]

who needs floaty and soft rides down the highway. i like feeling the road and the bumps...

now if only i had some softer seats...

[XanderWiFi]

Dropzones on KYB AGX's with new mounts, do an alignment and call it a day ;)

new mounts, KYB AGX's and either sprint, or H&R, I'm on sprints now but someday I want H&R

Now for some compare and see: for struts GR2s and AGXs are recommended and both are made by KYB. If they are both made for our cars, what is the difference between them. I will have to do some more personal research on them later but I would like to hear your takes on them.

According to Sleepr H&R is better than sprints. Ttop steadfastly recommends dropzones. Again: what are the pros and cons of each and reasons for their suggestion?

Thanks ahead of time for this guys. Liking the info. Wife is yelling at me to get off the computer lol.

[mfuller]

I started out with H&R on Koni double-adjustables, then went to Eibach Race springs (on coilover Konis), then Intrax on KYB GR-2, then a new set of single-adjustable Konis with Eibach Pro-kit, then the Eibach Pro-kit on FE3 struts, then finally H&R on KYB AGX.
The H&R/AGX combo is the best I've found of parts that are readily available.....but I miss my first set of Konis (thinking of having Truechoice do another set).

[Ttop191]

The AGX's are specifically made to handle a drop where as the GR-2's are more of a stock replacement, both will work, but the AGX's should last longer. As for springs, I'm not steadfast to drop zones, i just know a lot of people have them and are satisfied with the result

[cherrington17]

The AGX's are specifically made to handle a drop where as the GR-2's are more of a stock replacement, both will work, but the AGX's should last longer. As for springs, I'm not steadfast to drop zones, i just know a lot of people have them and are satisfied with the result

Important Note here... there are PLENTY of members who have used GR2 for a extended period with a drop, with no problems.

[kwhauck]

but I miss my first set of Konis (thinking of having Truechoice do another set).

Is that the set I have?

[mfuller]

Is that the set I have?
You have the ones that were made into coilovers, right?
Then yes, I miss them......although not in coilover form (way too stiff for pock-marked streets).
The damping from the Koni inserts was glorious, though.
Those were some seriously expensive coilovers.

[XanderWiFi]

Sounds like H&R and AGXs then. What are the top rated sites to get a good deal on these? Or is it a direct merchant buy?

Having gone through so many setups, Matt, I appreciate the input. I have no problem with the more expensive products. I find you pretty much get what you pay for.

[mfuller]

You can get the H&R springs from the Tire Rack (look under Grand Am; they fit the Alero too) for $231.00.
The AGX struts can be had from shox.com for $535.00.

You may be able to find both items cheaper elsewhere, but they are both kinda hard to find in-stock.

[jabartram]

i run and autocross on intrax and agx. you can get the agx for less than 500 on ebay.

[xXManwhoreXx]

If money is no issue have Tien custom make you springs to your specs... they can pretty much do whatever you want. And it's not terribly expensive compared to other alternatives.


post number 666

[Redog]

while we're on the topic... how is it possible that if we lower from 4x4 height, the ride gets more stiff and less comfy.

yet "luxury" cars come already that low, and are very comfy (more than our stock ride is) to ride in? Why is there no option to lower, and maintain a soft ride?

That's what happens when you pay 50K for a car :lol:

A lot of the luxury cars have added stuff in the suspension. I know that the difference in the Navigator and Expedition rear struts is air bags. Don't know exactly how they are set up, never worked on one, but I know that's something Ford likes to do. I also know roughly that Infiniti and Nissan struts are different set-up's internally (at least back in 2005) but don't ask me how. If I was still working at a shop part-time, I probably could answer all these questions better

[XanderWiFi]

Matt, do you like the AGXs so much because they are adjustable? How has that worked out for you?

I was looking at them on tirerack.com and they have a KYB strut plus assembly. Looks like a coil on a rod. Didn't know if I could just buy the AGXs and that does it for the struts or are there other parts required.

Are mounts an aftermarket deal or just simple stock?

AGXs $560 dollars shipped at tirerack.

For the H&R springs are there two different sizes for the front and back? On their website they have that they fit the Alero but not on tirerack, and H&R springs do not appear for a grand am either unless there is a particular year and model that needs to be used?

[XanderWiFi]

If money is no issue have Tien custom make you springs to your specs... they can pretty much do whatever you want. And it's not terribly expensive compared to other alternatives.


post number 666

I was looking into this as well. Is it tein or tien? Haven't found where they do custom work for our cars. Or do you have to request that under a GA as well?

[XanderWiFi]

nada?

[Ttop191]

its tein, and it would more than likely be under GA

Edit: just checked their site and they don't carry anything for N-bodies, but if you contacted them, I'm sure they could custom make you some springs without too much of a hassle, or maybe even coil overs ;)

[alerored04]

With my AGX's Intraxx springs and the rear sway bar I have zero complaints about handling. I don't know if it could get much better on this car.

[XanderWiFi]

What is the difference between regular springs and coil over?

[Ttop191]

on the most basic level coilovers are better because you can adjust the ride height, whereas with a spring there is no way to adjust your ride height, it simply is what it is...like i said on the most basic level

[mfuller]

What is the difference between regular springs and coil over?
Coilover refers to the arrangement of the spring and damper - a spring which fits over the damper body.
Technically, our stock MacPherson struts are coilovers.
But the more popular vernacular for coilovers refers to an arrangenet where the lower spring perch is adjustable (either via a threaded sleeve in the damper body or a threaded damper body) to adjust ride height (and more importantly, allows you to corner-weight the vehicle).
That said, "coilovers" generally use smaller-diameter coils and are available in a huge range of spring rates.

[XanderWiFi]

You can get the H&R springs from the Tire Rack (look under Grand Am; they fit the Alero too) for $231.00.
The AGX struts can be had from shox.com for $535.00.

You may be able to find both items cheaper elsewhere, but they are both kinda hard to find in-stock.

Do you have to put in the Grand Am for shox.com as well?

And is the KYB strut and shock mount what I need to replace my mounts on tirerack.com?

[mfuller]

Do you have to put in the Grand Am for shox.com as well?

And is the KYB strut and shock mount what I need to replace my mounts on tirerack.com?

Probably. Most of these aftermarket parts houses don't realize many parts are interchangable between the Grand Am and Alero.

I don't care for the KYB mounts and bumpstops/boots. Just get MOOG stuff from RockAuto.com.

[robalero]

MOOG 4 life, frig most of their stuff is lifetime. I can buy MOOG sway bar links for the alero for $50 with lifetime

[luckilero7]

Man all these questions and I've already done the price research on H&R's. Go to my thread H&R help and ar the end is the pricing I've found. These are the springs I've found most complemented and most used but not by all. I will be purchasing my set of H&R springs from shox.com this weekend or early monday.

[luckilero7]

Scratch that, I meant ImportRP.com

[XanderWiFi]

The H&R springs have a 1.5" drop correct? They don't offer those on tirerack.com anymore. Even under the grand am. Unless I am missing something? Found them on shox.com though.

Why not a fan of the KYB shock and mount?

And what is with all the bolts they have on there as well?

[kwhauck]

The H&R springs have a 2" drop correct?

Why not a fan of the KYB shock and mount?

Don't question the suspension guru, just do as he says.......

[XanderWiFi]

Haha okay. What specific name does this "MOOG Stuff" fall under?

I see shock mount: acdelco.
strut mount: monroe, mevotech, kyb, raybestos...

Am I navigating this thing correctly?

[irondiezl3]

will these work they came up for alero on autozones site,

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Energy-Suspension-2-3-8-in-L-red-sway-bar-end-link-kit/_/N-25we?counter=6&filterByKeyWord=swaybar+link&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=353712_0_0_&_requestid=430838

[XanderWiFi]

nada?

[kwhauck]

http://moogbushings.com/home.php?cat=404

[XanderWiFi]

Does a "mount" go by any other name? Or is it a catch all term for multiple parts? If so, what parts?

[falloutboy]

Does a "mount" go by any other name? Or is it a catch all term for multiple parts? If so, what parts?

Sorry I somehow lost track.

What are we talking about?

[G.I.Ceo]

Here's the link for H&R Springs for the GA's.

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?make=H%26R&model=Sport+Spring+Set&group=Sport+Spring+Set&partNum=50739&autoMake=Pontiac&autoModel=Grand+Am+GT+Sedan&autoYear=2002&autoModClar=

[XanderWiFi]

Cool thanks man.

[XanderWiFi]

KYB AGX
H&R Springs
KYB Strut and Shock Mount

Am I missing anything for a suspension replacement? Here is where I need some help with finesse. Sum it all up-$927 and that isn't even shipping, so I need to buy everything in pieces. The question is this: in what order should they be purchased and installed?

[a.graham52]

heres my personal opinion:

buy what you can and wait until you have everything

otherwise you could do the springs now but that would require disassembling your stock struts to put the springs in and then dissembling again to put the springs on your new struts. if you install that mounts now your just going to put wear and tear on them and i suppose the struts too if u just did those. just get everything when u can and installed all at once. imo

[XanderWiFi]

Probably the safest bet. Thanks for grounding me.

[sleepyalero]

i created this thread. might help you a bit on what you need.

see page 2, and also a pic of a car on page 1 with pro kit.

http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33996&page=2

[XanderWiFi]

edit.

[Shiwnath]

Well I gotta say Xander, thanks to you I no longer have any questions on suspension. This thread basically answers everything lol.

[XanderWiFi]

Aside from learning what I need to for myself, I was hoping to accomplish that as well. People always bash the noobs for not searching, but 99% of the threads are fragmented and poorly listed so it is near impossible.

Matt recommends the MOOG mounts, but I can't find them listed. I will go with the KYBs and not have any issues, but if they are that much better it would be good to have them.

H&R springs drop 1.6" in the front, 1.4" in the back...am I even going to notice that? Performance, I am sure I will notice, but looks are key too. Do the struts enable a drop as well?

[sleepyalero]

well here is malibu's alero he posted on my thread, he has eibach pro kit, and look how much less of a wheel gap there is then stock. you will notice the difference. :)


http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr137/mackey1290/100_1762.jpg

[XanderWiFi]

Trouble is they don't make eibachs anymore. Looks like a small decrease. Not crazy though.

[robalero]

buy it for the grand am.

I bought mine locally for $100 and I can tell you it makes a HUGE difference performance wise and if you have the right size tires ( which I don't ) you will see a difference specially if your running 17's or 18's

[sleepyalero]

yeah you can still buy them for grand am ive found em on alot of sites. i plan on getting em just cause i dont want a crazy drop on the car. just enough to close that wheel gap i dont want to drive and scrape the bottom of my car on pot holes or any speedbumps or getting up friends driveways and scrapping my front bumper lol.

[robalero]

the eibach is 1.5 in the front and 1.25 in the back but after it drops a bit it is lower

[XanderWiFi]

yeah you can still buy them for grand am ive found em on alot of sites. i plan on getting em just cause i dont want a crazy drop on the car. just enough to close that wheel gap i dont want to drive and scrape the bottom of my car on pot holes or any speedbumps or getting up friends driveways and scrapping my front bumper lol.

Amen.

[sleepyalero]

:p some website say 1.3in drop or 1 inch drop... guess it varies idk

[robalero]

check the eibach site, thats the best source for the truth of it and where I got mine.

btw you will still scrap over some speed bumps if your going too fast

[sleepyalero]

Yeah but I drive like a grandma over em and don't have to drive over them very often.

[robalero]

ull still scrape a bit, I went to do the oil change today on my car I have a drive-on hoist at work....I scraped going on and off and I guess I moved one of my anti-rattle clips for the brake and fuel lines too readjusted that today

[sleepyalero]

damn that blows.

[robalero]

its all part of not riding stock height. its ok tho its not major scraping its just slightly touching

[sleepyalero]

Yeah haha

[XanderWiFi]

I don't know if I am missing something or what, but why does tirerack only have the rear fitments for the kyb agx?

[XanderWiFi]

Just bought the kyb agx from shox.com. UPS ground.
H&R springs and kyb mount kits from tirerack.com.

Here we go.

[mrmike]

Did they actually have them in stock (the AGXs)? Many other sites have told me that they are discontinued.

[Shiwnath]

Just bought the kyb agx from shox.com. UPS ground.
H&R springs and kyb mount kits from tirerack.com.

Here we go.

From what I've read, a lot of people don't go with the KYB mounts. They had problems with it and say that MOOG or monroe held up much better.

The KYB mounts, unlike their struts, are poor quality and people have had issues with them breaking within a short period of time, you can read up on this on the n-body forums. I think most people go with monroe or moog strut mounts.

[XanderWiFi]

What kind of issues. When I checked on moog-(a while ago) I couldn't find anything on the mounts.

[Philbar71]

Where in VA are you? I have canuck springs on. We should meet up some time seeing as how you are the only other active member in va.

[Greencoupe2.2]

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php there under strut mounts on rock auto

[XanderWiFi]

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/racatalog.php?carcode=1426632&parttype=7600

MOOG Part # K6519
MOOG Part # K6520

Are these the only two things that I will need?

KYB AGX shocks, H&R springs, mounts...what else do I need for a full suspension replacement? Want to get it all done while I have it taken apart.

[XanderWiFi]

Where in VA are you? I have canuck springs on. We should meet up some time seeing as how you are the only other active member in va.

I'm in Woodbridge. Stationed at Ft. Belvoir, VA. I'm down but you are about 3.5 hours away lol. Caravan?

[Philbar71]

Oh hell. Lol yeah we will have to meet up one Saturday or something. Maybe about half way between somewhere

[XanderWiFi]

Oh hell. Lol yeah we will have to meet up one Saturday or something. Maybe about half way between somewhere

I'm sure that can be arranged.

KYB AGX's on backorder until March!

BAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLSSS!!!

[XanderWiFi]

Did i have the correct moog part numbers?

[XanderWiFi]

The AGXs are not in stock still...no update on estimated shipping date either. I am probably going to switch to the GR2s.

[TheEdgeofSanity]

I went with Monroe's and I was very happy...

[03glgold]

http://ksu.craigslist.org/pts/2980546753.html
These correct?

[falloutboy]

the type is correct - if the part is correct you have to ask for the partnumber of these particular shocks and crosscheck it with the KYB Homepage or Rockauto.

Cause KYB GR2 are also avaible for 3rd and 4th Gen Camaros - and these wouldn't fit ;)

[XanderWiFi]

AGXs should finally be coming into stock this week.

[MMGT1]

I had Sensa-Tracks, changed to KYB.... Never again, I hate these KYB's with a passion. Sensa Tracks with the Eibach springs was the best I've felt so far. Drove amazingly well on the highway, throw it into a corner and it held great. All around it was great. Thought I was making a step up, boy was I disapionted

[03glgold]

I checked part number and it didn't check out for the alero but it did check out for 06' Lancer...He bought them for a Lancer Ralliart... Maybe tried to do it themself and didn't know what they were doing or searched wrong year, who knows

[XanderWiFi]

The job is done! KYB AGX, H&R Springs, KYB Mounts.

Performance: the car doesn't even rock when turning now, I will be selling my tower brace bars because I do not even see the need for them. However, the springs are extremely stiff-if you want a smooth floating ride this is not the setup for you. I feel every divvit and pothole and imperfection in the road.

For pics, see the "canvas is complete" thread.

[mfuller]

I would say H&Rs are firm, but certainly not stiff.
They are IMHO the best compromise between comfort and performance.
My old coilovers with Eibach Race Springs (basically what Scott has on his car) were stiff.

[happyisthealero]

The job is done! KYB AGX, H&R Springs, KYB Mounts.

Performance: the car doesn't even rock when turning now, I will be selling my tower brace bars because I do not even see the need for them. However, the springs are extremely stiff-if you want a smooth floating ride this is not the setup for you. I feel every divvit and pothole and imperfection in the road.

For pics, see the "canvas is complete" thread.


So what might be the best setup for me then? I want a smooth ride for my 4dr alero and when I get a 2dr I want performance up the wazoo!

On a side note I wonder if I could do air ride+sway bars+strut tower braces?

Do I still need coils if I have air ride?

[xXManwhoreXx]

No. you have bags on the struts.

[falloutboy]

for an overall mix of performance and comfort I suggest the FE3 suspension with aluminum control arms (bushing designated as "blue" by GM).
depending on your comfort in roll movement I'd select a suiting swaybar, don't ignore the rear (these two have to match).

for the more performance ride, see the aftermarket suggestions with an appropriate alignment

[XanderWiFi]

So what might be the best setup for me then? I want a smooth ride for my 4dr alero and when I get a 2dr I want performance up the wazoo!

On a side note I wonder if I could do air ride+sway bars+strut tower braces?

Do I still need coils if I have air ride?

This would probably be it. When I asked for guidance I said no expense spared with the best performance.

I think the only thing better would probably be a custom build.

[XanderWiFi]

The H&R Springs, KYB AGXs and KYB Mounts have been installed. The look is great and I recently took a long distance trip through the pennsylvania turnpike and never had to go slower than 70 on all the hilly curves that run through there. In that situation, you can understand how good suspension can save you gas by not having to brake, speed up.

I have not been able to tinker fully because i am still healing from a wrist surgery but my one beef with the suspension is it is extremely stiff. Yeah-I get it-it's supposed to be. But at low speeds I bounce with every imperfection on the road-the texture of the road, not even bumps or potholes (if that makes sense). I plan to adjust them to a softer setting but wondered what other's experience has been. On the front suspension, I also have a silver bolt over the adjustor on the passenger side, but just the open adjustor on the driver side-not really sure what to think about this.

I have a bubble in my tire, most likely from hitting some road construction bumps. Need to do something before I destroy the rest of them.

[mfuller]

But at low speeds I bounce with every imperfection on the road-the texture of the road, not even bumps or potholes (if that makes sense).
I know exactly what you mean.
Wait until you're stopped on a bridge and can feel the entire roadway oscillate when other cars and trucks roll by.....

[XanderWiFi]

Do you have yours adjusted to the softest setting Matt? Or middle to stiffest? How does it appear under the hood? This bolt on one side and not on the other is making me nervous. Hopefully it is just to cover it.

Should they squeak through a break in period too?

[billytheman1188]

Do you have yours adjusted to the softest setting Matt? Or middle to stiffest? How does it appear under the hood? This bolt on one side and not on the other is making me nervous. Hopefully it is just to cover it.

Should they squeak through a break in period too?

What do you mean by a bolt on one side and not the other? I have AGX's and have them set to 2. Def a nice stiff ride.

[XanderWiFi]

I'm going to post a different thread with some pics to keep this one more on topic...I'm pretty upset.