exhaust questions

[whiterider00]

so ive had my header (2.4) in my trunk for literally almost 2 years now, and i finally have the money to redo my entire exhaust. gonna be pacesetter header to dynomax muffler (as resonator) to magnaflow cat to borla muffler. pretty sure the pipe size after the flange on the header is 2.5in, but i may be mistaken. also, i think my current muffler is 2.5 in. i was thinking of doing 2.5 all the way, but from what ive read, 2.25 might be better, to help keep some backpressure. also the muffler thats on now is a single in/out with a half assed "T" on the tail pipe to give me dual exhaust outlets. would it make any difference at all in flow if i were to get a single in/dual out muffler like what would be used on a camaro/firebird? basically would those 3 extra 90 degree bends make any difference at all?

sorry for the novel i just wrote, just want to make sure i get what will be the best for the car. thanks.

[whiterider00]

no opinions?

[xXManwhoreXx]

2.25 would be best for your setup. However I would run a real resonator insted of a muffler.

[whiterider00]

ill look into that, probly b cheaper anyway.

[AleroB888]

so ive had my header (2.4) in my trunk for literally almost 2 years now, and i finally have the money to redo my entire exhaust. gonna be pacesetter header to dynomax muffler (as resonator) to magnaflow cat to borla muffler. pretty sure the pipe size after the flange on the header is 2.5in, but i may be mistaken. also, i think my current muffler is 2.5 in. i was thinking of doing 2.5 all the way, but from what ive read, 2.25 might be better, to help keep some backpressure. also the muffler thats on now is a single in/out with a half assed "T" on the tail pipe to give me dual exhaust outlets. would it make any difference at all in flow if i were to get a single in/dual out muffler like what would be used on a camaro/firebird? basically would those 3 extra 90 degree bends make any difference at all?

sorry for the novel i just wrote, just want to make sure i get what will be the best for the car. thanks.

CAT has to go in stock location, put the resonator after the CAT, I'd go 2 1/2 mandrel bent pipe, backpressure is almost never good. Bends make a difference in flow, but the dual out mufflers are not bad. Straight in and out flows best. In general, the better flow, the louder it gets.

[whiterider00]

i think im gonna keep the muffler ive got. i cant find a borla in the inlet/outlet configuration i was looking for. im hoping with the new resonator and everything that the sound calms down a bit. i think i might have developed a very small leak somewhere, because over the past few months its gotten quite a bit louder, so hopefully replacing everything helps. and ya, i forgot the cat is first, im gonna keep it that way.

[xXManwhoreXx]

Look into a greddy dt muffler they are quidt until you WOT than a valve opens and they roar

[whiterider00]

so i finally got this done, and im kinda pissed i went with the regular resonator instead of the muffler. my exhaust is so goddamn loud, i can barely drive the car. so im thinking of getting the dynomax muffler i originally planned on getting, and just adding it in to the exhaust. this should help absorb some of the sound (i hope). its not raspy right now, just ridiculously loud. i didnt think it would be such a change in sound from adding the header and using bigger pipe, but it is insane. if anyones got any other suggestions, please let me know. thanks.

also, the other thing i noticed, is that i actually lost both low end and top end power. the only time i notice any gains is when at wot and then its so loud it may just be the sound playing tricks on me. so over all i am quite displeased with the turn out. but hey, only spent $400+ and they had my car for 3 days. ok, all done ranting.

[widbyj]

Sorry I missed this before... I'm running a pacesetter on my 2.4 also. High-flow 3" cat, straight back to a 3" resonator before the axle and then some bends into a 3" Hushpower (by Flowmaster) muffler. This thing is pretty loud all the time in the car but not so bad outside until I get on it (S/C doesn't help). Probably will make it quieter later, not sure. The tone is very low and sets off car alarms when I cruise past - lotsa fun!

For N/A builds 2.5" is probably best. A bigger cat might help, this one is rather small and very porous (you can see a lot of light through it). A cherry bomb style muffler would probably be better than a standard resonator without blocking any flow. A Dynomax VT muffler is similar to the greddy, at normal driving it acts like a real muffler but at high flow a valve opens and it flows straight through. Price is much better, $100 at Summit, and is fairly small.

The performance problem is probably due to the placement of the O2 sensor. They located it too far down, usually the wire doesn't even reach, and it never heats properly. This causes the ECM to mis-calculate and generally cause a very lean condition. To correct either change to a heated (4-wire) sensor -or- have a bung installed in one of the tubes about 4-6" from the head. I blew a set of rings cause it ran way to lean under boost with this header, be careful.

Hope this was helpful...

[whiterider00]

The performance problem is probably due to the placement of the O2 sensor. They located it too far down, usually the wire doesn't even reach, and it never heats properly. This causes the ECM to mis-calculate and generally cause a very lean condition. To correct either change to a heated (4-wire) sensor -or- have a bung installed in one of the tubes about 4-6" from the head. I blew a set of rings cause it ran way to lean under boost with this header, be careful.

Hope this was helpful...

this was quite helpful. i noticed they did have to extend the wires to the o2 sensor, and it looks like its just twisted together and wraped in electrical tape. no codes, but i will look into the heated sensor. and definitely gonna get some sort of muffler, and put it in to quiet it down. thanks for the help, ill update when i get it done.

[Ttop191]

wait a second, they lengthened you o2 wiring??? where did you have this done, that is totally going to fuck with your signal it's sending back to the PCM

[Greencoupe2.2]

Las I heard the o2 sensor had to be mounted in the factory location and thosse wires should be crimped and heat scrhrinked especially since there under the car

[Ttop191]

^ they shouldn't be tampered with at all...if you extend them or shorten them it changes the resistance in the circuit, and thus throws of the voltage reading the PCM receives...causing you to run rich or lean depending on what you do with the wires

[whiterider00]

ya, i was kinda skeptical about the wires being lengthened. the place that did it is a local place that does mostly custom and stock exhaust work, and ive heard nothing but good about them. so i dropped the alero off tuesday morning, and they said theyd call when its all set, should be before the end of the day. no call that day. called 8am next day, and apparently they had a lot of work tuesday and didnt get a chance to bring it in to work on it at all. said it would be in soon and theyd call by the end of the day. no call that day either. called thursday morning, they said its in the shop now, hes just "finishing installing the header and everything else underneath". isnt the whole exhaust underneath...? anyway they call just before i go into work asking "did you want a muffler on the car?" wtf? of course i do, it would be ridiculous with out one. they say to come get it. the manager calls me like 5 min later asking the same thing. do i want a muffler on the car cuz its really loud right now. i tell him, yes, the borla muffler that was on the car when i dropped it off is staying and the header, resonator and hi flow cat are going on with 2.25" pipe. "oh, ok ill have to put the muffler back on, i just ran a "y" to the tips after the cat." i told them when i got the estimate and when i dropped it off what i wanted. they obviously didnt remember. finally go to pick it up yesterday (friday), and they charge me $20 more than estimated. i was pissed ab out everything at this point, but so sick of driving my dads focus that i just paid and left. got home and checked everything out, and thats when i noticed the wires from the o2 sensor:
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd366/jelawrence_1986/IMAG0022.jpg

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd366/jelawrence_1986/IMAG0023.jpg

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd366/jelawrence_1986/IMAG0021.jpg

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd366/jelawrence_1986/IMAG0024.jpg

so im gonna try to not drive it much til i can get some other sort of muffler on it to quiet it down, and until i figure out what to do with the sensor issue. if theres any issues because of the spliced wires, the shop will definitely be hearing from me.

[whiterider00]

hoping something like this (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-630802/) will work to quiet it down. cant really fit a full sized oval muffler anywhere.

[whiterider00]

sorry for the triple post, but i found this:

http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22983&highlight=2.4+header

and now dont know which one to believe. should i worry about how they extended the wire? should i shorten it up a bit and solder it? id really like it if my engine didnt blow the fuck up cuz its not running right.

[Greencoupe2.2]

what the hell kind of wiring did they use, a house extention cord and house hold wiring nut, looks like the biggest hack job i have ever seen. I i were you i would get some wire loom and some 16 or 18 gage wiring and wire it the right way. I would solder the connections and use some heat scrink to seal it up. And shotening up the wires wouldnt be a bad idea either. It doesnt even look like your cat is connected to your headers.

[whiterider00]

ya, it looks like its a bit bigger gauge, and the wire nut things are just those crimp on type. im gonna call them monday morning and ask what the hell they did to it and why it looks like shit. so im gonna shorten up, and solder the wires for now, but ive heard others have switched to a heated o2 sensor to fix issues from installing the header, so ill check on that too. to fix the noise issue im gonna get the above muffler and get it on asap. this whole thing has been a huge pita, im just hoping to get it fixed quickly.

[widbyj]

You CAN safely extend the wire on the harness side using any good quality wire, soldering is best due to vibration.

You should NEVER cut the white wire that comes out of the O2 sensor itself.

From the pics it looks like they totally cut the original connector off of bothe ends and then just wired it all together. IMO they owe you an O2 sensor that hasn't been raped and the necessary mating connector to attach to the factory wiring. Not a shop I'd ever go back to...

As for the heated sensor - must do if you want it to work right. The exhaust may cool enough by the time it gets to the collector to cause issues, mine does. I'm going the wideband route instead, found one that also feeds out a signal appropriate for the ECM to monitor. Good luck!

[Cliff8928]

If you wanted, I could make plug-in extension for your oxygen sensor that looks factory original. Either to use the original sensor or a heated (v6) sensor.

[Lucalare]

What a hack job! I wouldn't drive that until you get the wiring cleaned up. using electrical tape like that is ridiculous, it'll just melt, and wire nuts are NOT meant for use outside, any bit of moisture and your wires are done for.

[whiterider00]

If you wanted, I could make plug-in extension for your oxygen sensor that looks factory original. Either to use the original sensor or a heated (v6) sensor.

i might have you do that.

im going back to the shop monday morning and asking wtf they did. all im gonna ask for is some money back to buy a new sensor, and the wiring harness to extend it. if they dont do that, i can always report them to the bbb.

my wife is loving this whole situation because she didnt really want me doing the exhaust in the first place, and now she gets to laugh about it.

[whiterider00]

going in the morning to get the 4 wire heated o2 sensor, and im gonna ask if they have any sort of extension. if not, this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/O2-OXYGEN-SENSOR-EXTENSION-12-LS1-LS2-4-PIN-SQUARE-/260251185517?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &hash=item3c982df16d) is the right thing to get correct? and as far as what to buy to quiet it down, would a glasspack type muffler work well, or something like this (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-10415/) which i guess has perforations inside, which might help quiet it down more. basically whatever will make it quietest is what im looking for.

sorry if all these questions are getting confusing, im just trying to make sure i get what im looking for, and dont pay more money for something and have it turn out shitty like it has thus far.

[Ttop191]

I'd pull off the resonator and throw in a glass pack if it were me...should really quiet it down...

[whiterider00]

i thought about that, but then wouldnt it be a bit raspy with out the resonator? im gonna try to find somewhere to stick another muffler in, but if theres no space then the resonator is coming out.

[Ttop191]

Nah shouldn't be raspy, basically a resonator is just a miniature muffler :p

[AleroB888]

Many times a resonator is used to reduce the loud "drone" heard inside the car as a result of the long length of pipe from CAT to muffler. The problem is, trial and error is usually the only way to get the results you want.

[Cliff8928]

going in the morning to get the 4 wire heated o2 sensor, and im gonna ask if they have any sort of extension. if not, this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/O2-OXYGEN-SENSOR-EXTENSION-12-LS1-LS2-4-PIN-SQUARE-/260251185517?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &hash=item3c982df16d) is the right thing to get correct? and as far as what to buy to quiet it down, would a glasspack type muffler work well, or something like this (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-10415/) which i guess has perforations inside, which might help quiet it down more. basically whatever will make it quietest is what im looking for.

sorry if all these questions are getting confusing, im just trying to make sure i get what im looking for, and dont pay more money for something and have it turn out shitty like it has thus far.


They're probably not going to have an extension for it at all... I could make one that would use the exact OE delphi connections.

[whiterider00]

if its gonna cost less than the $20ish like the one on ebay, and you can get it to me quickly, ill gladly buy from you. just let me know.

and for everything else, im gonna get that magnaflow muffler posted; should be quieter than the glasspack, even tho its like 3x as expensive. i really only want to do this once (well twice).

[Cliff8928]

Well, it's just over 15 bucks for the associated connectors and materials, plus the TXL wire needed (4 colors). So it would run around 20 bucks or so depending on where I'd have to get the wire. Just need the lead time to attain all the materials.

[whiterider00]

pm'd

[whiterider00]

so...i stopped by the shop yesterday morning. told them i had some concerns with the wiring they did when they did the exhaust. the woman at the desk said, "well we dont do any wiring, we dont touch any of that when we do exhaust, we dint even have wire here to do that." ummm...theres like 2 feet of extra wire under my hood, it had to get there somehow. so i talked with the guy who did the exhaust about it. asked him what type of wire it was cuz it looked like it was bigger gauge. he said "its normal gauge wire". whatever the fuck that means. i asked about the connectors they used, he said they were fine. i asked about water getting in and corroding it, and according to him, theres no way water can get on the wires...that are exposed to the underside of the car...he said he cud put some watertight connectors on if i want. i said no, ill take care of it but if i have any issues im coming back and u guys are fixing anything that goes wrong free of charge. so im not all that happy with this place, but i did manage to swap the connectors they used with some normal butt connectors and shrink tubing, and it seems to be running a little better. may just be placebo effect. ill have to wait to see how it runs when i get the heated o2 sensor in.

while i was under the car fixing the wiring, i noticed there is really no room to add in a muffler to quiet it down, so i have to remove the resonator, and stick the new muffler in there. hopefully it quiets it down a bit, my head is starting to hurt.

p.s. sorry for the novel. lol

[jhubbz]

A Dynomax VT muffler is similar to the greddy, at normal driving it acts like a real muffler but at high flow a valve opens and it flows straight through. Price is much better, $100 at Summit, and is fairly small.



I checked this out and looks pretty sweet! I've been going back n forth about what muffler to get and looks like this is the winner. Only thing is.... which model fits? does the length matter or would any 2.5" fit?

[jhubbz]

sorry for thread jack btw

[Gr1m]

just looks like a ~16ga speaker wire to me not a household wire lol

[Greencoupe2.2]

It looks like a cut up extension cord not in wall romex wiring

[widbyj]

I checked this out and looks pretty sweet! I've been going back n forth about what muffler to get and looks like this is the winner. Only thing is.... which model fits? does the length matter or would any 2.5" fit?

I can't say exactly which would fit best without getting back under the car to measure, sorry... Probably any of them can be made to work but it is best to measure and plan first. I'm thinking of swapping out my HushMaster someday just to see. I've found that if I drive like a granny people don't stare but that's no fun.

[whiterider00]

just looks like a ~16ga speaker wire to me not a household wire lol

Ya, i took a look and thats what it looks like. Confused me cuz the insulation is thicker than the other wires. So it shud work for now til i get the harness for the 4 wire sensor.

[Cliff8928]

Solution....

http://home.comcast.net/~cliff_scott/ld9ho2s.jpg

[whiterider00]

woohoo!

[whiterider00]

installed the new harness and o2 sensor, got the code cleared, and now it starts and runs better than ever before. afaik it has the original sensors in it. the upsream one i took out was definitely on its way out:

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd366/jelawrence_1986/IMAG0034.jpg

about 5 days after i replaced everything, the check engine light came back. havent had a chance to get it scanned yet, but im assuming, and hoping that its just the other sensor.