wanna hear a story? Flood Water Sucks!!

[MiLo]

So it was raining like crazy 2 days ago we even had flash flood warnings. Lots of places got flooded on my way home from work. Like about 2 miles from my house my dumb ass was following other idiots through flood water and this guy gets stuck right in front of me. So as I try to go around him and this truck is coming my way and splashes even more water my way then I get stuck in the damn flood water. There's maybe 10-12" I'm stuck in. Car shuts down, so I wait maybe 10 minutes tops as this guy in a pickup truck helps push my car out of the water. I wait till it stops raining but by that time there is a little seepage on the front carpet and the car wont start (I'm talking 3 f#@k!n hours Heavy Rain). So I get it towed to my house, let it sit over night. In the morning i knew the car wouldn't start cuz the water got in everything, so I went and got new oil new air filter and oil filter. Did the oil change and there was literally so much water in the engine it took 2 full oil pans to drain. the 1st pan was all water. the 2nd was a lil more water then the oil started coming out. Mind you, it took at least 3 seconds to dump the pan and put it back to catch the rest of the shit coming out the engine (didn't expect it to be sooo much water). After the oil change I checked the air filter and sure enough, that sh!t was water logged. Got that drained and dried then checked the tubing to the throttle body. That sh!t had water. The box on top of the throttle body had water so I drained and dried that. From the lever of the throttle body to the top had water all on there so I can imagine what's inside there. I didn't even mess with the car after that. So I let the car sit today and tried starting it when I got out of work. Lights work, No Crank, No Start, but I hear the clicking when I turn the key. What else should I do before I consider replacing the starter? Is it possible the spark plugs need to be replaced? Someone please give me good news before they tell me to junk my car.. lbvs.

[MiLo]

i read something about hydrolock??? starting the car without the spark plugs will release the water that is stuck from the engine? Does this sound right? and my car will start after that?

[Nas Escobar]

Well, the car wouldn't need to be junked, and you can source an L61 pretty easy. They came in the Cavalier, Sunfire, Grand Am and first 2 years of Cobalt, although I'm told the Cobalt's L61 is different.

You need to get the water out of the cylinders... I'm not sure how you can do it, considering that the Ecotec is dual cam and has the spark plugs in the center instead of the side, but you probably flooded the whole engine. It may still be salvageable. What I wonder is if your PCM fried or not because a bad PCM will also make the engine click but not start. My friend fried his on his Stratus after a battery change. Turns out it had an electrical problem. The car wouldn't get any fuel.

With that said, lets start this at a basic level. Can you hear the fuel pump prime? If you can, then we might be looking for issues between the electrical and under the hood. You would then have to check the fuel pressure in the rail. The goal is to eliminate fuel problems first and work to the worst of the possibilities.

Also, if you can get the starter out, take it to Advance Auto or Auto Zone. They can test it for free. Take the Alternator as well. It may give you problems because alternators and water don't mix.

If everything is a dead end, then I'm betting the PCM fried when it got washed in the flood.

[Vella's Alero]

Yes, if you take out the spark plugs then you should be able to shoot out the water from the cylinders when you turn over the engine. You have to be careful though if anything is bent (con rods, etc...) Also check any computers that might have been fired or fuses that could have blown due to shortage.

Good luck with it!

[MiLo]

Well, the car wouldn't need to be junked, and you can source an L61 pretty easy. They came in the Cavalier, Sunfire, Grand Am and first 2 years of Cobalt, although I'm told the Cobalt's L61 is different.

You need to get the water out of the cylinders... I'm not sure how you can do it, considering that the Ecotec is dual cam and has the spark plugs in the center instead of the side, but you probably flooded the whole engine. It may still be salvageable. What I wonder is if your PCM fried or not because a bad PCM will also make the engine click but not start. My friend fried his on his Stratus after a battery change. Turns out it had an electrical problem. The car wouldn't get any fuel.

With that said, lets start this at a basic level. Can you hear the fuel pump prime? If you can, then we might be looking for issues between the electrical and under the hood. You would then have to check the fuel pressure in the rail. The goal is to eliminate fuel problems first and work to the worst of the possibilities.

Also, if you can get the starter out, take it to Advance Auto or Auto Zone. They can test it for free. Take the Alternator as well. It may give you problems because alternators and water don't mix.

If everything is a dead end, then I'm betting the PCM fried when it got washed in the flood.


I've been having electrical problems with this car to begin with because the top of my windshield was peeled back and water running down my A-pillar right into my fuse panels of my dash. But I've gotten my windshield resealed recently and haven't had any problems since. Where is the PCM located? Is that under the passenger side dash under the glove box or is that the BCM?

I just had my alternator and battery replaced like 3 months ago. I will be pissed if it is that. But I don't know because my lights & radio work fine it's just not turning over.

Is that the sound I hear when I turn the key on then off? Fuel pump prime? As I turn the key, ACC (lights & radio go on), On, Start (*click*like it wants to start then nothing, lights go off, everything dead) turning all the way OFF (***beeping then buzzing/vibrating***)

Where is the rail located? for fuel pressure?

[Shiwnath]

My girlfriend's Ecotec Alero had a full cold air intake and went too deep in flood water and hydrolocked it right on the spot. I pushed it out of the water and pulled all plugs, removed the fuel pump relay and the upstream O2. Cranked it quite a bit of times trying to get the water purged out of the system. After about an hour and a half the car was up and running and that same engine still works to this day... The Starter ended up taking off a couple teeth on the flex plate which ended up having to get replaced which meant that the engine had to come out anyways. But god damn those Ecotecs are built to last. I gotta say I was impressed.

Edit: forgot to mention that it was our 7th year anniversary and we were at the Cafe where we had our first date. We watched as other cars get towed away, but not her Alero! Makes for one hell of a story.

[MiLo]

Yes, if you take out the spark plugs then you should be able to shoot out the water from the cylinders when you turn over the engine. You have to be careful though if anything is bent (con rods, etc...) Also check any computers that might have been fired or fuses that could have blown due to shortage.

Good luck with it!

Now that I know what its called " hydrolock" I'm looking on Youtube and they all seem to be ok by doing this when Their engine gets flooded. Where/when do I have to worry about bending rods warped pistons etc? Is it over turning the engine minutes at a time trying to get the water out? this is when I would think it would happen, heat + no lube = bending/warping. Should I do it in say 10 sec intervals?

[MiLo]

My girlfriend's Ecotec Alero had a full cold air intake and went too deep in flood water and hydrolocked it right on the spot. I pushed it out of the water and pulled all plugs, removed the fuel pump relay and the upstream O2. Cranked it quite a bit of times trying to get the water purged out of the system. After about an hour and a half the car was up and running and that same engine still works to this day... The Starter ended up taking off a couple teeth on the flex plate which ended up having to get replaced which meant that the engine had to come out anyways. But god damn those Ecotecs are built to last. I gotta say I was impressed.

So her electrical was ok? nobody mentioned anything about the fuel pump relay!!!! lol . damn I dont wanna f#@k my car up, I can't afford to buy anything new/used right now... i really don't wanna buy a new starter if I don't have to..

[Shiwnath]

Yup. Electrical was all fine. The only thing you have to worry about getting fried is the PCM and they're pretty good when it comes to water/moisture. All the other sensors are also water resistant so I wouldn't worry about it. And yes I do recommend pulling the fuel pump relay because you're not trying to fire up the engine and adding gas to the mixture just makes things worse.

[MiLo]

this is why i hate the midwest. every season is brutal. terrible & ridiculously long winters, super wet spring time, outrageous heat/hummidity in the summer. and feels like we don't even get the fall season. just jumps straight into winter. somedtimes you get every season all in 1 friggin day. believe that! but I love it cuz sometimes you need a change of scenery. plus its my home. lmao. damn this sh!t drives me nuts!

[MiLo]

Yup. Electrical was all fine. The only thing you have to worry about getting fried is the PCM and they're pretty good when it comes to water/moisture. All the other sensors are also water resistant so I wouldn't worry about it. And yes I do recommend pulling the fuel pump relay because you're not trying to fire up the engine and adding gas to the mixture just makes things worse.

Well you give me some hope Young Boondock! lol.. Thanks I feel a lil better.

[Shiwnath]

Trust me man, I know how ya feel. We had a storm here too today and my HVAC blower decided to quit on me briefly so all the windows started fogging up. Wasn't fun at all.

Love that show man. They just started airing it again lol

[MiLo]

<-----Pimp Named Slick Back........... lmao...

[Shiwnath]

Uncle Ruckus is the best lol He got the opposite of what Micheal Jackson has haha

[MiLo]

Uncle Ruckus is the best lol He got the opposite of what Micheal Jackson has haha

lmao..

alright i'm loggin off thanks for the input ya'll.. will update!

[Shiwnath]

lmao..

alright i'm loggin off thanks for the input ya'll.. will update!

Good luck man!

[Vella's Alero]

Now that I know what its called " hydrolock" I'm looking on Youtube and they all seem to be ok by doing this when Their engine gets flooded. Where/when do I have to worry about bending rods warped pistons etc? Is it over turning the engine minutes at a time trying to get the water out? this is when I would think it would happen, heat + no lube = bending/warping. Should I do it in say 10 sec intervals?

Yeah, it is hydrolocking. If you are worried about bending rods or valves it is now out of your hands because that would have already happened. If it is a manual car, then don't...DON'T try to push start on a gear.

Once you take the plugs out, you can crank to your heart's desire because it won't effect anything other than your battery. Just keep cranking until no more water flies out of the engine and then fit everything back, change the oil and filter again just to be sure and hope for the best.

When mine hydrolocked last September, I did this and just removed my injectors (diesel car) and cranked, then when everything was put back together it ran fine but had a slight bend in one rod from the initial suction of water.

If you need anything else, let me know buddy.

[MiLo]

ok so i found these spark plugs (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Autolite-AAP5263-Platinum-Spark-Plug/16817199) at walmart.. are they a good choice for now? i'm on a real tight budget at the moment. would i need to gap these to any specification?

and where exactly is the fuel pump relay & upstream o2 located?

[03glgold]

Autolites work my car has ran autolites...fp relay is in the under hood fuse box which should have a diagram under the cover...upstream o2 is behind your motor around the downpipe heatshield

[Shiwnath]

Direct OE Iridium Replacement for a couple cents more if you're willing to wait for shipping:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000NW4PO2/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

One of them even ships right from Illinois.

[negolien]

Well that sucks... yet again a valuable lesson in not driving thru water lol.

[a.graham52]

Stop worrying about relays and spark plugs and o2 sensors! Pull the spark plugs, see if there is water in there! If the plugs arnt DAMAGED then u can dry them off and reinstLl. And your fuel pump relay would have nothing to do omwoth the car not cranking. Also of any water is between you ranging and upstream o2, it will just go through the cat anyways. One gallon of gas into the engine equals one gallon of water out the tailpipe. So it's not like water is unusual in there!

[Nate's Alero]

Pull the plugs and crank. End of story. If you hydrolocked at idle you should be fine.

[negolien]

:p LOL NM

[a.graham52]

Pull the plugs and crank. End of story. If you hydrolocked at idle you should be fine.

Lurk much?

[Redog]

Nobody asked the most important question: Was it fresh water or salt water.

Fresh water, yeah pull plugs and crank. You already did everything else. Salt water, don't bother, the salt will eat away at everything and the car is pretty much fucked.

Talked to a lot of guys the spring after Superstorm Sandy at Raceway park. There was 25,000 cars at RP all from NYC. Exotics, antiques, DD's, you name it. All salt water damaged, all taken off and sent to the big junkyard in the sky. Then a few guys had flood cars from fresh water. Interiors had to be ripped out, dash boards, etc, but after drying out, these cars are back on the road. One car, a converitble, was full of sand, all the way up to the doors. That car had to weigh a few tons! :eek:

Not saying that's what you have here, but just to give you an idea ;)

[Nate's Alero]

Nobody asked the most important question: Was it fresh water or salt water.

Fresh water, yeah pull plugs and crank. You already did everything else. Salt water, don't bother, the salt will eat away at everything and the car is pretty much effed.

Talked to a lot of guys the spring after Superstorm Sandy at Raceway park. There was 25,000 cars at RP all from NYC. Exotics, antiques, DD's, you name it. All salt water damaged, all taken off and sent to the big junkyard in the sky. Then a few guys had flood cars from fresh water. Interiors had to be ripped out, dash boards, etc, but after drying out, these cars are back on the road. One car, a converitble, was full of sand, all the way up to the doors. That car had to weigh a few tons! :eek:

Not saying that's what you have here, but just to give you an idea ;)

But if he gets it quick enough it might be fine, the engine itself that is, i hit 6"~ or so of salt marsh water at 70Mph with my old alero when we had torrential rain a couple years back (before you say it, yes it was midnight and there was no lighting, all the power was out) and all that ended up happening (after my CAI sucked a ton of water and the car nearly stalled) was my upstream O2 sensor corroded and gave a null reading. the engine was fine for another year or so after that until natural causes got to the rest of the car. I think for his location and how it happened i think it was fresh water and he should be okay.

Lurk much?

Nah, scrapped the Alero and bought a Fiesta ST. Looking for another Ho' though.

[MiLo]

Well that sucks... yet again a valuable lesson in not driving thru water lol.

Well if it wasn't for the Honda stalling or the damn truck coming my way I would've made it. Lol.

[MiLo]

Stop worrying about relays and spark plugs and o2 sensors! Pull the spark plugs, see if there is water in there! If the plugs arnt DAMAGED then u can dry them off and reinstLl. And your fuel pump relay would have nothing to do omwoth the car not cranking. Also of any water is between you ranging and upstream o2, it will just go through the cat anyways. One gallon of gas into the engine equals one gallon of water out the tailpipe. So it's not like water is unusual in there!

So what you're saying is I can just go ahead and crank the engine after pulling the plugs and watch the water show. After that put the plugs back and the car should start right up?

Do I have to worry about the transmission/fluid or anything like water going back up the exhaust?

[MiLo]

Nobody asked the most important question: Was it fresh water or salt water.

Fresh water, yeah pull plugs and crank. You already did everything else. Salt water, don't bother, the salt will eat away at everything and the car is pretty much effed.

Talked to a lot of guys the spring after Superstorm Sandy at Raceway park. There was 25,000 cars at RP all from NYC. Exotics, antiques, DD's, you name it. All salt water damaged, all taken off and sent to the big junkyard in the sky. Then a few guys had flood cars from fresh water. Interiors had to be ripped out, dash boards, etc, but after drying out, these cars are back on the road. One car, a converitble, was full of sand, all the way up to the doors. That car had to weigh a few tons! :eek:

Not saying that's what you have here, but just to give you an idea ;)

Fresh water, I live in Chicago. And the front carpet is soaked. So I know it's gonna get moldy. How would I go about that? Just replace the carpet? I would think that could get quite costly.

[Nas Escobar]

I've been having electrical problems with this car to begin with because the top of my windshield was peeled back and water running down my A-pillar right into my fuse panels of my dash. But I've gotten my windshield resealed recently and haven't had any problems since. Where is the PCM located? Is that under the passenger side dash under the glove box or is that the BCM?

I just had my alternator and battery replaced like 3 months ago. I will be pissed if it is that. But I don't know because my lights & radio work fine it's just not turning over.

Is that the sound I hear when I turn the key on then off? Fuel pump prime? As I turn the key, ACC (lights & radio go on), On, Start (*click*like it wants to start then nothing, lights go off, everything dead) turning all the way OFF (***beeping then buzzing/vibrating***)

Where is the rail located? for fuel pressure?

PCM is in the engine as far as I know. the BCM is inside.

http://0.tqn.com/d/autorepair/1/0/y/U/87556862.gif

No, that's far from it. If everything is going dead as you hold it on start and it makes a CLACKING noise (as if the starter has power but the engine won't turn over) then it's a battery/alternator problem... and it can end up being both because alternators and water don't mix. The alternator on the Ecotec is in an odd position. It's under the throttle body... or at least, that's where the cables for the alt are.

If you hold the key on start for 10-15 secs, it should make a nasty sound which is reminiscent of a "clac clac clac clac" in fast pace. If this is true, it's the battery or alternator. This is of course, assuming the battery has enough juice to even flicker the lights. Sometimes, the car will just make a softer click noise and you can hold it forever in start, but you have no lights at all, not even the odometer will be on. I think this is the situation that applies to you. I have a feeling because you've had electrical problems before, you may have issues somewhere between the battery, the alternator, and the cables. I know the cables on my Camaro have acid corrosion all over the battery area because this car has gotten wet with coolant before by the battery area, and the previous owner didn't tighten the battery terminals right. I know have to figure out how to deal with it.

If you can source another GM battery, swap it and see what happens next. TAKE OUT THE SPARK PLUGS BEFORE ANYTHING... IF that water circulates through the engine, you will damage it. That way, if you can get it to crank and turn over, you can drain the water as well.

If you can't source another GM battery, then take it to a parts store and have the battery load tested. Pretty sure it's dead from what you say, but better safe than sorry.

Also, the fuel pump priming is NOT a clicking noise, it's a quiet hum that you have to be paying attention to when you put the car on the on position. The hum usually lasts about 5 to 7 seconds. You may have to have a friend put it on the on position and listen to it by the rear driver's side tire.

The fuel rail pressure relief valve is near the oil cap.

It's a schrader valve that looks similar to a tire valve stem. You can get a small flathead screwdriver once you take off the small cap and press the little pin inside of the valve in. Fuel should spray out for 3 seconds. If the spray is weak or very little fuel actually comes out, then you have a fuel issue as well.

http://www.cosmoracing.com/sale/gallery/alero22ecotec.jpg

Regardless of whether or not this is an issue, you should check the fuel pressure just to make sure it's not something serious, but I'm fairly certain you need to start with the battery first and go from there. If you do your own work, I would suggest testing the alternator as well. You have to get it out and take it to the parts store. They will tell you whether or not it's a good alt.

I should also mention, take out the relay for the fuel pump when you crank the engine to purge the water. You don't want to exchange flooding water for gasoline in this situation because then the engine will have a hard time normalizing and then you might fry your cat with all the unburnt fuel.

Fresh water, I live in Chicago. And the front carpet is soaked. So I know it's gonna get moldy. How would I go about that? Just replace the carpet? I would think that could get quite costly.

stockinteriors.com sells premolded carpet. You can also look for a used carpet in the junkyard.

If you want to play your luck, purple power and pressurized water. That might help. This of course would mean you taking out the seats and pulling the carpet out. I would also recommend changing the jute padding. They sell that at home depot. Just cut to size.

watch?v=wWJLQz-ZOL8

[03glgold]

PCM is in the engine as far as I know. the BCM is inside.

http://0.tqn.com/d/autorepair/1/0/y/U/87556862.gif

No, that's far from it. If everything is going dead as you hold it on start and it makes a CLACKING noise (as if the starter has power but the engine won't turn over) then it's a battery/alternator problem... and it can end up being both because alternators and water don't mix. The alternator on the Ecotec is in an odd position. It's under the throttle body... or at least, that's where the cables for the alt are.

If you hold the key on start for 10-15 secs, it should make a nasty sound which is reminiscent of a "clac clac clac clac" in fast pace. If this is true, it's the battery or alternator. This is of course, assuming the battery has enough juice to even flicker the lights. Sometimes, the car will just make a softer click noise and you can hold it forever in start, but you have no lights at all, not even the odometer will be on. I think this is the situation that applies to you. I have a feeling because you've had electrical problems before, you may have issues somewhere between the battery, the alternator, and the cables. I know the cables on my Camaro have acid corrosion all over the battery area because this car has gotten wet with coolant before by the battery area, and the previous owner didn't tighten the battery terminals right. I know have to figure out how to deal with it.

If you can source another GM battery, swap it and see what happens next. TAKE OUT THE SPARK PLUGS BEFORE ANYTHING... IF that water circulates through the engine, you will damage it. That way, if you can get it to crank and turn over, you can drain the water as well.

If you can't source another GM battery, then take it to a parts store and have the battery load tested. Pretty sure it's dead from what you say, but better safe than sorry.

Also, the fuel pump priming is NOT a clicking noise, it's a quiet hum that you have to be paying attention to when you put the car on the on position. The hum usually lasts about 5 to 7 seconds. You may have to have a friend put it on the on position and listen to it by the rear driver's side tire.

The fuel rail pressure relief valve is near the oil cap.

It's a schrader valve that looks similar to a tire valve stem. You can get a small flathead screwdriver once you take off the small cap and press the little pin inside of the valve in. Fuel should spray out for 3 seconds. If the spray is weak or very little fuel actually comes out, then you have a fuel issue as well.

http://www.cosmoracing.com/sale/gallery/alero22ecotec.jpg

Regardless of whether or not this is an issue, you should check the fuel pressure just to make sure it's not something serious, but I'm fairly certain you need to start with the battery first and go from there. If you do your own work, I would suggest testing the alternator as well. You have to get it out and take it to the parts store. They will tell you whether or not it's a good alt.

I should also mention, take out the relay for the fuel pump when you crank the engine to purge the water. You don't want to exchange flooding water for gasoline in this situation because then the engine will have a hard time normalizing and then you might fry your cat with all the unburnt fuel.



stockinteriors.com sells premolded carpet. You can also look for a used carpet in the junkyard.

If you want to play your luck, purple power and pressurized water. That might help. This of course would mean you taking out the seats and pulling the carpet out. I would also recommend changing the jute padding. They sell that at home depot. Just cut to size.

watch?v=wWJLQz-ZOL8

I see someone is forgetting about the pressure of water...he doesnt have to have a power problem if it is hydrolocked....the water between the piston and the valves are going to keep the valves from opening and without them opening a) timing chain cant turn because of the pressure and b) the water between the head and piston will keep the piston from moving

[zzyzzx]

So as I try to go around him and this truck is coming my way and splashes even more water my way then I get stuck in the damn flood water. There's maybe 10-12" I'm stuck in.

And the reason you thought that your car would make it through was???

[MiLo]

No, that's far from it. If everything is going dead as you hold it on start and it makes a CLACKING noise (as if the starter has power but the engine won't turn over) then it's a battery/alternator problem... and it can end up being both because alternators and water don't mix. The alternator on the Ecotec is in an odd position. It's under the throttle body... or at least, that's where the cables for the alt are. no clacking noise at all so i don't think its the alternator and the battery is good because all the lights on the dash, the radio, and the headlights are fine.

If you hold the key on start for 10-15 secs, it should make a nasty sound which is reminiscent of a "clac clac clac clac" in fast pace. If this is true, it's the battery or alternator. This is of course, assuming the battery has enough juice to even flicker the lights. Sometimes, the car will just make a softer click noise and you can hold it forever in start, but you have no lights at all, not even the odometer will be on. I think this is the situation that applies to you. I have a feeling because you've had electrical problems before, you may have issues somewhere between the battery, the alternator, and the cables. I know the cables on my Camaro have acid corrosion all over the battery area because this car has gotten wet with coolant before by the battery area, and the previous owner didn't tighten the battery terminals right. I know have to figure out how to deal with it. this situation does not apply to me as stated above.

TAKE OUT THE SPARK PLUGS BEFORE ANYTHING... IF that water circulates through the engine, you will damage it. That way, if you can get it to crank and turn over, you can drain the water as well. i took out the spark plugs and yes they are wet and burnt. i also checked to see the piston position with a long screw driver and sure the screw driver was wet but also going from left to right starting with 1.
1 piston position is down. 2 piston position is up. 3 piston position is up same as 2. 4 piston position is down same as 1.


Also, the fuel pump priming is NOT a clicking noise, it's a quiet hum that you have to be paying attention to when you put the car on the on position. The hum usually lasts about 5 to 7 seconds. You may have to have a friend put it on the on position and listen to it by the rear driver's side tire. yes i do hear the hum sound. i first said it was like a buzzing sound when i was giving my description.

The fuel rail pressure relief valve is near the oil cap.

It's a schrader valve that looks similar to a tire valve stem. You can get a small flathead screwdriver once you take off the small cap and press the little pin inside of the valve in. Fuel should spray out for 3 seconds. If the spray is weak or very little fuel actually comes out, then you have a fuel issue as well. i have not tried to do this yet.

If you do your own work, I would suggest testing the alternator as well. You have to get it out and take it to the parts store. They will tell you whether or not it's a good alt. i don't think its the alternator. to be honest with the way how this is going i think its the starter or the PCM.

I should also mention, take out the relay for the fuel pump when you crank the engine to purge the water. You don't want to exchange flooding water for gasoline in this situation because then the engine will have a hard time normalizing and then you might fry your cat with all the unburnt fuel i did this as well when i took the spark plugs out. but as i said, it won't turn over so i don't think anything is mixing at this point anyway.

The PCM does what exactly? is that the main computer chip is that why you need to program it? and do i have to take it to the dealer so they can program it?

[Redog]

The carpet, like the carpet in your house, has padding under it. Though an automotive grade, it will still need to be removed and dried out at the very least.

I would take it out and leave it in the sun for a few days. Put the seats back in and drive the car without the carpet for that time, if you do not have another car.

I would try that first BEFORE putting the money out for new carpet ;)

[Nas Escobar]

i don't think its the alternator. to be honest with the way how this is going i think its the starter or the PCM.

i did this as well when i took the spark plugs out. but as i said, it won't turn over so i don't think anything is mixing at this point anyway.

The PCM does what exactly? is that the main computer chip is that why you need to program it? and do i have to take it to the dealer so they can program it?

The PCM is the command center of the engine. It will tell the engine when it needs fuel, when it needs air, when does it need to adjust it's a/f mix ratio, etc. Without it, the engine won't even start.

Also, if you can, take out the starter and take it to get it tested at the parts store. I know Advance Auto and Auto Zone can do this, but not so sure about pepboys and the others.

As far as the dealer thing, you don't necessarily have to if you get it from another 2004 Ecotec N body BUT you might have VIN issues. I think this is a question better suited for Milzy or Ben @ WOT Tech.

I know you can call up milzy and ask them this and they'll gladly help you out.

[MiLo]

As far as the dealer thing, you don't necessarily have to if you get it from another 2004 Ecotec N body BUT you might have VIN issues. I think this is a question better suited for Milzy or Ben @ WOT Tech.

I know you can call up milzy and ask them this and they'll gladly help you out.

oh ok. i will have to give them a call...
this is very frustrating. part of my frustration is that i work a split shift so i only have about 1 good hour to try to work on the car in the morning before work cuz when i get out and its already dark outside. the other part is that the car is in my moms complex parking lot not in my driveway, no garage. 5 days no car! i hate this sh!t

[Nas Escobar]

One thing I've been reading up is that you need to make sure the hardware numbers match.

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1964789#post1964789

Then as far as retune, only if you grab a random one. I'm not sure how "plug and play" they are.

[a.graham52]

Your starter does have a solinoid (very rugged relay) attached to it. U could try jumping the two large studies with a screw driver to see if the starter turns. Do this with no plugs in it. Make sure the car is in park or neutral. Doing this will bypass anything electrical and will determine if there is a mAcanical issue within the engine at this point.

Untill you get the thing to crank, nothing fuel related or ignition (spark plugs and wires) won't matter. Doesn't matter if you have fuel or not... If it ain't cranking it ain't gonna mater

[MiLo]

So I've been fortunate enough to use my mother's car until I can figure out what the hell is wrong with my car. I'm determined to do it myself since I can't afford to let a shop do it but at the same time I don't have enough time during the day to just knock this out. Now I've been doing here and there so this is what I've accomplished....... I've gotten most of the water to drain from the throttle body but I can see that there is more water leading to the engine. When I flash a light into the spark plug holes I only see water in the 2nd piston, the other pistons are dry. I was checking the fuse panels inside the car and everything seems to be OK.

I checked the fuse box in the engine bay and I noticed that there isn't a starter relay. Is that normal? I would think that I need that relay for a reason, right?

[MiLo]

Well I've tried just about everything with even a lil bit of help. Seems like my engine seized up. I've only tried by hand manually and I can't move it for nothing in the world. Might there be another way to try to turn over the engine? Maybe using an impact gun or something other than just my hands? I'm down to try anything before I call my insurance company and take a loss....

[[ion] C2]

nope you should be able to turn it by hand with a big socket wrench, especially if the plugs are out it spins freely

your engine's f---ed

[03glgold]

A good lesson to be learned is that you never try to start a motor that was choked out by water until you have at least pulled the plugs

[MiLo]

So I had to buy a 25in breaker bar with 6point 21mm impact socket with extensions just so i can try to turn over the engine manually I just need to find me a nice size galvanized steel fence pole. I will try this as soon as i get home from work.

[[ion] C2]

why? lol

unless you're not strong enough to break the rust that surely formed after it sitting for so long, the engine will turn with a regular sized 1/2 drive socket wrench.

[MiLo]

C2;655390']why? lol

unless you're not strong enough to break the rust that surely formed after it sitting for so long, the engine will turn with a regular sized 1/2 drive socket wrench.

Cuz my 10in breaker was too small my girl said go big or go home, so I had to upgrade. Lol

[[ion] C2]

well, let us know if you can actually turn the engine

[Nas Escobar]

So I had to buy a 25in breaker bar with 6point 21mm impact socket with extensions just so i can try to turn over the engine manually I just need to find me a nice size galvanized steel fence pole. I will try this as soon as i get home from work.

You didn't need the breaker bar or the extensions. Just a 21mm deep socket and 1/2 drive long socket wrench and a cheater pipe would have done the trick.

[MiLo]

my breaker bar wasn't big enough, i'm telling you, the crank shaft wasn't budging and the angle was bad, i had no room in the wheel well with just the 10in breaker. i figure with the extension and the 25in breaker bar i can definitely get a better handle plus more torque. i put oil in the cylinder and let that sit. i got home too late today. in the morning i'll try. (fingers crossed)

[rustyballs_69]

With no plugs in it you should be able to turn it the crank with a 3/8 ratchet. No need for a breaker bar. I'm gonna say the motor is done.

[a.graham52]

if rust is an issue, and very well could be, get some Marvels Mystery Oil and put some in each cylinder and let it sit. iv seen it do wounders on stuck engines. wehn the piston rings are stuck mind you, not crank/rod related stuck.

another thought. if you still ahve water in the cylinders.. take some compressed air and shoot it in there and see if you can blow some of the water out. also...

DID YOU EVER TRY TO JUMP THE STARTER???

had a firebird with a stuck engine in it and put some of that crap in the cylinders. after a week the damen thing turned over. didnt really smoke either. great derby car :D

[MiLo]

its been confirmed... My Ho is dead. the rods are bent. and i cant afford to rebuild or replace. lucky i have full coverage. so im gonna see how much they are talkin. let you know the outcome. when i get it.

[[ion] C2]

take off the oil pan and take a peek for fun if you want

[MiLo]

C2;655423']take off the oil pan and take a peek for fun if you want

naw. i'm good with that. im pretty upset that i can't keep my alero. i had some plans for her! she was pretty nice nice and maintained all around. i babied this damn car and now i regret going through that damn flood water. i should've known better but i was rushing to get home from a long day of work. I'm mad cuz i just put in a new alternator and new battery like 2 or 3 months ago and i cant take those because they are electrical plus i dont have another one.

so what i did today was went back to stock everything.
put my old radio and speakers back in. i put my old organic brakes and old rotors back in because i just did my new ceramic brakes and new rotors like about 5 months ago. still look like new pads when i pulled them off, i was shocked. can't beat the ceramics.
i have some items that i took off my car that people might want.
bosch window wipers from 1st snow fall this winter (still no streaks) 22in driver & 17in passenger side.
pair of oem tweeter sail panel speakers (tan)
pair of oem fog lights that are not cracked.
HID's 35w 8000k. still looks as bright as first bought.
front switchbacks led turn signals.

i think thats about all i got to go without making my jeopardizing my insurance claim

[Nas Escobar]

Doesn't your insurance have a provision where you can keep the car, but they'll pay you less? My Grand Am was considered a "total loss" because the person that rear ended me bent the bumper support and they didn't want to fix it. I got paid book value of the car minus the $800 the insurance would make selling my car to a junkyard.

If you can do this, you could easily get the money and fix the engine.

[MiLo]

Doesn't your insurance have a provision where you can keep the car, but they'll pay you less? My Grand Am was considered a "total loss" because the person that rear ended me bent the bumper support and they didn't want to fix it. I got paid book value of the car minus the $800 the insurance would make selling my car to a junkyard.

If you can do this, you could easily get the money and fix the engine.

i dont know about that provision... i'd have to look at my insurance again to check.
if that would be the case, can you actually rebuild the engine and drive it again after the insurance company declares it a "total" loss.?

[a.graham52]

You can do what u want with it once you "buy it back" bit it will have a totaled title.

[MiLo]

You can do what u want with it once you "buy it back" bit it will have a totaled title.

a totaled title wouldn't mean anything to me as long as i'm the owner, i know what happened. i guess if i was selling it it would be bad for the new owner. they probably wouldn't buy it right?

this is probably why Nas said that about keeping the car after declaring it totaled. to avoid this hassle of buying it back.

[MiLo]

I got paid book value of the car minus the $800 the insurance would make selling my car to a junkyard.

If you can do this, you could easily get the money and fix the engine.

going by book value do they actually go by the condition of the car before the engine damage or after?

[03glgold]

Condition before as to what they pay you...condition after for buyback...as to the buyback value i havent noticed a huge difference on values for aleros with salvage titles especially with your mileage...While not everyone would agree i am not completely opposed to a salvage title vehicle as long as there was no major structural damage

[zzyzzx]

With no plugs in it you should be able to turn it the crank with a 3/8 ratchet. No need for a breaker bar. I'm gonna say the motor is done.

I agree, except I used a ratcheting serpentine belt tool when I had to turn mine to use my special tool to remove the pushrods when doing my LIM gasket.

[Nas Escobar]

i dont know about that provision... i'd have to look at my insurance again to check.
if that would be the case, can you actually rebuild the engine and drive it again after the insurance company declares it a "total" loss.?

Well it's not in your declarations page, it's something you bring up when they cut your check. You could try to call in and ask without telling them your situation.


You can do whatever you want with the car, so long you keep the title. BE AWARE that some insurance companies do report the fact that it was declared a "total loss" and you have to get a salvage title. This would encompass of you getting the car inspected and it has to pass a visual and technical inspection. The car must be fully restored when inspected so you can get a new title. "Fully restored" doesn't mean that it can't be missing trim pieces BUT it must look like a complete car and be completely functional. Trans will need to shift as it should, engine must be able to run without any leaks or noises, it must be able to pass emissions, it must not have any structural damage (meaning if your frame was bent before, you have to fix it. If you have extreme rust, you have to fix it).

Sometimes you have to tell the DMV yourself that it was declared a total loss, the insurance won't do it. In this case, how you handle it is up to you, we can't advice you on that due to the legal aspect of it and I will leave at that.

Also, if you threw a rod, you may have compromised the block. It may be a better idea to get a low mileage Ecotec engine. They are very cheap and plentiful. You can get em from a handful of cars. You could even go S/C.

a totaled title wouldn't mean anything to me as long as i'm the owner, i know what happened. i guess if i was selling it it would be bad for the new owner. they probably wouldn't buy it right?

this is probably why Nas said that about keeping the car after declaring it totaled. to avoid this hassle of buying it back.

A totaled title means that the car was declared "unfixable", well considering value to spending ratio. If you sell a totaled car without declaring it as such (meaning it becomes salvage) then it is considered fraud and how each state handles this is very different. Just know if you tried to unload the car with a bad title, you could end up in a sticky situation. This is only true when it is declared. If it's not reported on Carfax, then carry on. What is not said must not be mentioned ALTHOUGH should you sell it, it would be a good idea to state it. If the price is right, it wouldn't matter since they would buy it anyway, just remember that the car is probably worth $500 now. This is really a question of how attached are you to the car and would you want to hassle looking for another Alero. While the smart thing to do would be to scrap it and get another Alero with lower miles, the question is can you find yourself a $2000 Alero with 100K and a 2.2 that needs nothing done to it other than swapping over the things you had on your old Alero to your new one?

The whole "keep the car" thing was because it seemed you were attached to the car. IF you think it's worth fixing, then keep it and fix it. If you can find another white Alero and you wanna have a parts car, be my guest. If you wanna take the money and run, turn it in.

going by book value do they actually go by the condition of the car before the engine damage or after?

The way it is usually done is the highest value of the car. Meaning what would a 180K Alero retail for at a dealer in good condition. There are some companies that are bastards and will not do this but rather what it's worth in current condition. Allstate is known for this and will severely devalue your car in order to save a buck. Is that really good hands?

At this point, if they did the latter, then you're not getting more than $500 for it. A car without an engine is worth $500 on average. You can simply keep the insurance out and sell it to a junkyard for that price (Well usually they buy em for $200-$400 but shop around). My advice would be to not make a claim unless you're guaranteed $2000 so you can buy a replacement. To put it in perspective, a used engine is usually $500 to $700 at a you pull it yard, and about $1000 to $1500 installed. You can get a rebuilt Jasper engine for $1500 IIRC and installed for $2000 - $2500. At this point, the car will never be worth that, even without it being declared a total loss. This is why I must ask, how much is this Alero worth to you?

[03glgold]

He could also swap it himself if he wanted...not that hard on a direct swap