C2's Alero Updates

[leroBob]

We should probably rename the website C2'saleroipdate.com at this point lol. Maybe they'll sell the site to you for $35 pesos and a ice cream cone. Might need three ice cream cones tho one for each owner

[[ion] C2]

:lol:

[dbral]

:lol: X2

There was a write-up somewhere about using the older (Later 90's?) w-body adjustable turnbuckle style lower control arms on our cars. They replaced all four arms and so were able to adj. camber and toe in the rear. Can't find it though....

Suppose the bolts would work too as long as the tire does not contact the struts/spring perches

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125775&highlight=rear+control+arms
Found it...the link to the other website this came from is dead, but there might be enough info here

[homegrown]

:lol: X2

There was a write-up somewhere about using the older (Later 90's?) w-body adjustable turnbuckle style lower control arms on our cars. They replaced all four arms and so were able to adj. camber and toe in the rear. Can't find it though....

Suppose the bolts would work too as long as the tire does not contact the struts/spring perches


I did something like this years ago, except I went whole-hog and got the adjustable lateral links from BMR Fabrications. I still have them installed on my car to this day. The only thing I did was find a section of copper pipe to press in the bushings (acting as very thin sleeves) so I could use the stock mounting bolts (I did not want to drill the subframe to use the larger diameter bolts). In all these years, I've never had to touch 'em.

[[ion] C2]

Hmm so I should order some BMR Fabrication lateral links now instead of having custom ones made eventually, it seems. Then press in some tubing to make it suitable for 12mm bolts.

Then I just need to make custom trailing arms, or just box them in like I did on the red car and powder coat them.

[[ion] C2]

So the spark plug wires the shop made used the wrong boots, so the coils being mounted terminal down made the boot a nice cup for water and debris to collect. Before I got the car back they rinsed and wiped down the engine bay, and the water from that led to corrosion on all four terminals in only a few months (in dry heat). Also, they were not in a color I wanted.

https://i.imgur.com/cTut0U7.jpg

Enter Scott's Performance Wire:

https://i.imgur.com/SYH81W2.jpg

The weirdest part of the process was that although each coil and coil wire harness was numbered, the plug wires were routed as follows:

Coil 1 -> Cylinder 3
Coil 2 -> Cylinder 1
Coil 3 -> Cylinder 2
Coil 4 -> Cylinder 4

[dbral]

That is weird...good thing you were paying attention. Sucks you had to fix that and thinking the tuner should have at least given you a heads-up for the odd routing...and maybe a why for the odd routing as well lol

Those plug wires look like battery cables!!

[[ion] C2]

Those plug wires look like battery cables!!

Haha yeah I told him I wanted the best stuff they make. Should be good.

[[ion] C2]

It's been really hot here so I've been particular about the times I feel like driving the Alero with no A/C. Went to drive it the other day for the first time after doing the wires and it ran rough so I turned it off after a few seconds. 1 and 2 were switched. Having the coils numbered wrong makes it hard to get the wires correct. I tested the coils and labeled them properly.

Went to drive it today and noticed my super expensive fuel pump does not turn on. I hear a couple clicks from the relays but that's it. Awesome. Have to call the shop Monday to find out if they remember where they put the fuse because I can't find any, and if that's not the issue, guess I need to tow it to them.

[[ion] C2]

https://i.imgur.com/gtQVaXq.jpg

[dbral]

Oh no........ Have you heard anything from the shop yet?

[[ion] C2]

Turns out it's just a fuse supposedly in the engine bay. I checked every fuse I was able to find in the bay. Will find out where this thing was when I pick it up tomorrow.

[[ion] C2]

Whoops, it's not just the fuse. They took it for a test drive and the fuel pump stopped and/or pressure was lost. So still investigating.

[[ion] C2]

They found a wire that was shorting, so now it's fixed lol.

Finally getting good rolling shots and video Aug 13.

[dbral]

Awesome to hear man! Looking forward to the videos and pics. Hope you are having fun with it.....finally. Been a long road

[[ion] C2]

Nooooo! I knew something was up when I first turned the car on leaving the shop it revved to like 2500 before calming down, and made a ticking sound, and seemed to misfire a little. I noticed the RPMs would hang high around 1800 when coasting, even when sitting still which is when it should drop to idle. Cracked runner. That happened on my old very thin tubing manifold, didn't think it would happen on this beefy one. There's just a lot of vibration on this engine and when you have a heavy plenum hanging off it that's a lot of force constantly flexing at this joint. The new one might need some bracing like GM did with the supercharger manifold. There's a couple large screw holes in the block to the left and right of the oil filter, could add some bracing so there's less flex happening.

https://i.imgur.com/9QoDuha.jpg

[dbral]

DAMMIT! Nice catch though. X2 for your idea on bracing

The BMR adj. lateral links that homegrown mentioned still appear to be available on their website. They look heavy duty....like absolutely zero flex heavy duty. Nice looking parts too.

[[ion] C2]

Hopefully they can make my new manifold quickly, I've got some appointments coming up and I'm tired of postponing/rescheduling lol. Dying to get badass rolling shots and video. The big issue I've always had with manifolds (including the cracked one that's installed) is that the flange is curved/warped. It's really hard to mount it on a mill for machining. I'm sure clamping it to the head while the flange is warped didn't help the cracking situation, everything being under stress.

Just ordered those BMR links. Probably won't install them til the next chassis though. Their website is so old and poorly configured it doesn't even send you a confirmation email.

[dbral]

Oh man, hope the manifold gets done quickly. Maybe the new one will be flat from the get-go. Would not accept anything less for the money and time you are out. Gotta be a machine shop out there willing to take the challenge if need be. Wonder if cutting reliefs in the flange where there are 2 bolts between runners would help too? Kinda like some exhaust manifolds are made maybe. Voting yes for the braces for sure

Oh no, hope that BMR comes through with those links. They seem reputable. A+ BBB rating with 1 odd complaint over the years. Should be good....

[[ion] C2]

Got the BMR links in. Shop will keep me posted on the manifold, hoping it will be ready tomorrow. It's an easy manifold to make, but the unknown time-consumer is making the custom triangulation brackets.

Also paid for most things to turbo my truck (https://i.imgur.com/FfLhhNn.jpg) with a GTX3576R probably 6-8 psi to give it a little more oomph without damaging anything. Built engine for it is like $6800 and 6-8 month lead time, will probably do that eventually, but for now just want some spooly noises and more juice to get on the highway and pull our Can-Am (https://i.imgur.com/X0kNp3O.jpg).

[[ion] C2]

I have my display sign ready for when I start finally going to car meets around here lol.

https://i.imgur.com/kK9Oy6F.jpg

[tw0123]

That display board is awesome Chris!! I'll be getting something like that make up for when mine is finished.

[dbral]

Oh yeah, nice... and love the older Olds logo. Representing the last of the breed and def. worthy of the rocket.

Gonna be some serious WTF expressions at the car show scene lol. Thinking that might be one of the best parts of owning a build like that.

Happy to hear that BMR is an option for hard core lateral links and dang, you got them QUICK

Oh man, just noticed you didn't include maybe the best part on your board....that it is a 2.4. LOL don't open the hood..... No one would guess it. Have people bet on what engine is under there....Are you close to Las Vegas? lol Might win a few bucks, until word got around....

Oh, best of luck with your Toyota project. Owned an 80 4WD and 93 4WD and man, they lacked the power but still think they are the best looking small truck ever

[[ion] C2]

They definitely are. It's a truck I look back at when I park it places and go damn this thing looks good. The headlights I have in it are awesome. It has the 5VZ-FE swapped in and a bunch of upgrades to modernize it.

[dbral]

Nice!!! That makes me miss mine even more. Looked into getting another a few years ago but they were and still are out of my price range. Bought my '93 for 7k in '97. Recently, could not find a decent example under 10k lol

If you get a chance, post about how your truck turns out when you are done with the turbo.

[[ion] C2]

Yeah I used to have the same year/model/trim truck but had to sell it when money was tight. Ended up getting this one hauled over from Florida, cost me $12k. Then I put $36k into repairs and upgrades. The turbo project will cost about $11k. It should be done next month.

[dbral]

Whoa! You are going all out with your truck too. I get it all too well though....

LOL, if i was Jay Leno, i would still have all of his vehicles but would have a wing in the garage added that was dedicated to rare optioned GM FWD manual transmission cars and would drive an '80 Toyota pickup....with a 2jz ...on Thursdays lol

[[ion] C2]

Haha yeah. That would be sweet to have a big garage with cars that you just have a mechanic keep maintained and you just pick one to drive anytime you go out.

New manifold in, with a nice brace underneath. Welded much better than my old one too. When I picked it up it seemed to still have a vacuum leak. Tested today and found a huge one from a hose that was overtightened using a sharp hose clamp. I forgot to tell them that I left a bag of all sorts of smooth high quality clamps in the passenger seat. Replaced it and it's all good now.

Next up, my rescheduled-for-the-3rd-time appointment to button up some electrical items, and finally some photos/videos next weekend!

https://i.imgur.com/BfroMen.jpg

[dbral]

LOL Yeah Leno has the life.....

Awesome news man and nice find on the vac. leak issue as well. That new mani. looks a lot more compact and clean.

Hope the photo shoot goes down as planned this time

[[ion] C2]

Oops. I cracked my turbo manifold yesterday. When I got it back from the audio shop, I noticed it sounded off, and it didn't build boost as quick as it should. It's from me bucking the engine during tricky takeoffs with this clutch. I kept hearing a clunk, which might have been the turbo hitting the firewall, or the downpipe hitting the subframe.

Whatever hit, it led to cracking one of the runners. Getting that fixed and custom making some transmission mounts over the next week to prevent movement.

When I had the stiff passenger side engine mount installed, it added a ton of fender and interior vibration, but it did make driving easier and kept the engine from moving. I think stiffer transmission-to-subframe mounts will keep it from twisting and be minimal vibration added since it's the subframe mounts versus the passenger side body.

[dbral]

Oh man, sucks to hear about that. Hoping you can get it repaired and prevent contact with the stiffer mounts....and still get some pics and video too.

Replacing the worn mounts in ours improved shifting and start-out feel tremendously. The extra vibration with the poly inserts is noticeable but not too awful in our Alero. The Cavalier is a different story. It was already a rattle trap and those mounts made it X2 worse...at least lol

[[ion] C2]

I put the billet engine mount back on to prevent damaging engine movement and make it easier to drive. Having the shop put on the transmission polyurethane inserts while they fix my cracked turbo manifold. On the next car I'll do my best at vibration dampening the interior because these stiffer mounts are absolutely necessary for part longevity, performance, and clutch feel.

Bought Mike & Leslie's 2002 teal manual coupe. High cost ($5,000 + $1150 transportation) and high miles (190k) but it's the only rust-free manual coupe to be found.

https://i.imgur.com/potT0Yn.jpg

[dbral]

What a beauty! Congrats and have to admit i would have paid that too.

[Oldsnut]

Did you buy that from Mike and Leslie in Florida?

[[ion] C2]

Yes

[[ion] C2]

Just got it back after repairing the cracked turbo manifold, re-planing and port-matching the flange, and installing poly transmission mounts. Definitely lots of vibration until 2300 RPM. Hopefully I can minimize rattles on the next interior setup, but having stiff mounts makes clutch engagement much easier and keeps things from breaking due to engine movement, so it's necessary NVH.

There's still a fuel issue, I lose pressure for some reason during pulls. It usually sits around 50-60 psi at idle but should go up with boost, if I'm making 35 psi it should produce 85-95 psi when doing so, but after a few seconds of full throttle, it falls to like 30 psi.

I'll get some good video as soon as that's fixed.

[[ion] C2]

Exhaust leak test showed a little leakage around the wastegate. Can't pinpoint, but seems like one of the v-band connections either into the gate or out. Hopefully it's the exit side since that won't affect spool time.

Finally actually getting rolling shots and a nice sunset shot this weekend. Won't be edited and ready until next week though, photographer is busy.

Shop thinks the car might need a surge tank; the OEM plastic cup that the fuel pump sits in probably runs dry when pumping some serious flow.

https://i.imgur.com/67ydQNU.jpg

[[ion] C2]

I organized the list of things to do on the first page so it's split into specific projects. Engine build, body prep, and swapping everything over.

New chassis was finally delivered. It feels so squishy and loose to drive compared to my other one lol.

https://i.imgur.com/0Mk44dX.jpg

[tw0123]

That car looks so beautiful... are you repainting it or going to keep it that colour?

[[ion] C2]

Repainting it. I like my current blue, but I want it to "pop" more. More metallic, a little more blue (so a tiny bit lighter).

Going to fabricate the fender braces and rear roll cage first. Honestly my dark blue Alero handles amazingly. I took two back to back small roundabouts at some pretty high speed and it was stiff and flat while I navigated them. The fender braces are just kinda "because you can" and the guy who did them originally claimed it was very noticeable.

The roll cage is mainly for looks lol. I like the idea of having bracing in the back, plus we'll be making a panel for the subwoofer and relocated engine fuse box to replace the rear seats. But when I do take it to the drag strip, the cage will be necessary for me to make more than one run before being kicked out.

Simultaneously, I'll consult with the wiring expert who will be doing the wire tucking and relocating the fuse box, so the plan is in place. Not sure on the when because the wiring is different for my car with the standalone and headlights and fuel pump etc... probably will create the space for the fuse box and maybe have one installed that's not hooked up until it's time.

Then, I'll have an interior specialist completely sound dampen the entire thing, and do whatever is possible to seal/cushion sources of vibration noise. Wherever the dash might shake and make noise, squirt some silicone or something to go in between the offending materials, or add cushioning, etc. The vibration isn't a big deal, the annoying rattles are. This shop will also reupholster everything to have dark gray and black trim, wrap the steering wheel, wrap the shift knob, etc. They will also reupholster my Recaro seats so they match color/fabric and embroider the Olds logo into the headrest area.

Then comes all the powder coating and paintwork. Fully rustproofing all suspension and subframe components and powder coating them, and ensuring the body is rustproofed before painting.

[tw0123]

Sounds like an awesome transformation... can't wait to see the progress!!

[dbral]

Wow, awesome project and plans! Excited for you and can't wait to see it all come together. Also happy to hear the mounts fit.

That fuel system is pretty trick and looks like it will give you all the GPM. What are your plans for finding room for fitting in the extra parts? Weird that this fuel psi. issue just showed up, esp. after the car was running so well.

[[ion] C2]

The fuel surge tank should fit in the spare tire well, or worst case, the trunk.

Well, we kept running out of fuel on the dyno, and kept upgrading pumps. It is weird that there wasn't any issue on the 636 whp run, though. It might be that whatever design (venturi) draws fuel into the OEM cup is cracked or something and not picking it up. I have only noticed it at low fuel levels, so maybe if I had a full tank it wouldn't happen (or as bad?).

When I went to leave from my photoshoot today, I had to start the car like 5 times before it would stay running. The pump sounded crazy weird/loud and pressure was not building. Must be what it sounds like when it runs dry.

I think I'm going to change the passenger engine mount back to the stock style... the vibration is just beyond outrageous lol. I think the front and rear subframe mounts on the trans are what really matter for engine movement... but then again this passenger side mount kept things very still on the dyno.

https://i.imgur.com/5LWKchh.jpg

[[ion] C2]

Oh man, I just realized why my car was making a noise like something was hitting the brakes every revolution. I broke loose all my rear lugs so I could fix the e-brake, but I stopped after adjusting the rear right. I never re-torqued the left rear wheel on.

I drove that thing 100 miles since then. The sound kept getting worse and by the time I was on my way home from the rolling photos, I was like OK I need to check this out tomorrow. Jeez.

[dbral]

Judging by the pic it looks like you were able to get the front tires tucked inside the fenders.

Sucks about the fuel issues but sounds like you have a plan and that explanation makes sense . Imagining that the power you are making has to require some ridiculous flow at full bore. Are you going with a fuel cell for the next build?

Yeah man, good you caught that wheel in time. That has happened to all of us at one point or another.

[[ion] C2]

Everything still rubs unfortunately lol. They need to be a little bit more in, or the fenders need to be cut. That's why I want to get some real Volks that are hopefully able to fit over the brakes better and not require these spacers.

No fuel cell, the stock gas tank is fine, it just needs a surge tank to keep the pump submerged at all times.

I put the stock engine mount in and it's soooo comfortable, still easy to drive since the trans mounts are polyurethane, but I still clunked something (turbo-to-firewall or downpipe-to-subframe) on a rough start. I had my wife video the engine while I loaded it with the brake on to see how much it tilts under torque, and it's bad.

Video: https://youtu.be/ALzzRuIJei4

Idk what to do. I feel like I need to make some custom torque strut that anchors to the front header panel or something that will maybe keep the engine from tilting, but not introduce a ton of vibrations to the chassis. I think it needs things like what they use on the 3800 equipped FWD cars:

https://i.imgur.com/P1J8D4D.png

But there's no clearance to do that at all with my intake in the way. Might be able to build a custom strut bar and clamp onto it, and mount to the timing chain housing.

I asked my old polyurethane acquaintance to make a mount that's just a big block of 80A polyurethane like this:

https://i.imgur.com/NatltRi.png

I figured it might hold things better than the OEM style rubber mount, but not transmit as much vibration as the WOT-Tech insane nearly 100% billet construction mount. Seriously, there's only a tiny amount of poly on the mount, and it's like 95A durometer.

Here's a drive by video: https://youtu.be/9Tj4GiarkIo

[[ion] C2]

I shaved down the poly bushings in the mount so that only the sleeve contacts the base. This way the piece that connects to the engine is truly isolated from the mount. From my research, people have had great success with this minor adjustment.

https://i.imgur.com/nPnoxck.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WefBp11.jpg

Hopefully it makes a difference when I reinstall it yet again tomorrow. Otherwise, gotta think of a better design. I think the poly block would be good, but it would take me a bit of time to obtain the materials needed and machine what needs machining, and make the mold, if my old acquaintance isn't interested in helping me out.

[dbral]

Hopefully that mod to your billet mount helps. Maybe this is another possibility. Our Cavalier has a passenger side lower dog bone mount that goes between the engine and subframe. It looks like it might help prevent the movement shown in your vid. Our car does not have the 2.4 option but wondering if the 2.4 Cavaliers had that mount too. If they did, maybe you could adapt that in somehow? The dog bone is (was in 2018 anyway lol) available from Prothane with poly inserts. Might be able to bolt the engine side mounting stuff on your engine from a 2.4 Cavalier then fab the subframe side? Rock Auto shows the part for a 2.4 J-body. They call it a torque strut. Would help direct the motion into the subframe instead of the body to help with NVH too possibly.

Watched the fly-by vid. and man that thing moves. Assuming that was not a WOT pass either.... Sheesh, that was crazy and the exhaust note is killer.

[[ion] C2]

Torque Strut: Yeah I saw that in the N-body service manual, even though that's only on the J-bodies. Dunno why they wouldn't have things mounted even better on a larger platform. The main movement occurs up top, so I would more likely just make a custom strut bar that a poly mount attaches to.

Video: No lol, just high throttle, only 35% ethanol so it's neutered around 450 whp probably. Didn't want to lose fuel pressure (did as I approached the camera though).

The shaving down mod *slightly* helped. Then I stalled it hard when going to take off from a light (clutch grabs so violently if you don't rev it up high enough it just engages like BAM and the engine is dead, there is no saving it lol). The idle air control valve got stuck lol. It would only idle at like 400-500 rpm and it was super rich (supposed to be 1000 rpm). The valve body wiggles (don't think it's supposed to do that) so I'm getting another one tomorrow morning.

I think the poly block might do the trick as far as being cushy enough to not shake everything apart, but also keep things more firmly planted than OEM, and if not, I'll figure out some sort of brace that prevents that tilt. Until then I gotta just endure the vibrations on this really solid mount... I want this car to be comfortable inside and perform well. I know it's doable. The stock mount plus the 2 poly trans mounts was super smooth inside, so we just need some way to keep it from tilting. I don't think the turbo hits the firewall with the OEM engine mount. Nothing hits, but it's still bad to be swinging that engine so much lol.

Random shot while adjusting headlights:
https://i.imgur.com/g6SygEm.jpg

[[ion] C2]

Out with the old, in with the new.

https://i.imgur.com/LmM3qGo.jpg

[[ion] C2]

Welp, ordered:

a 3D printer so I can make the mold and alignment plate for the engine mount
machining services for the aluminum inserts
high strength studs with allen key head
liquid polyurethane mix 80A durometer


So I'll just make my own engine mount soon. Basically, I'll be able to attach each metal insert to the top and bottom of the mold, so it's in exactly the position it's supposed to be, then pour in the polyurethane through the openings.

https://i.imgur.com/CcppyBS.png

[dbral]

Nice! It is probably a good idea to stick with the factory mounting points like you are doing there too. Yeah, no telling why GM did not put the j-body torque strut in our cars. Also too, it seems that cars with the upper dog bones like w-bodies have the engine/trans mounted low in the cradle/subframe. Guessing the factory mounts are engineered so the powertrain kinda pivots on the axle output centerline maybe. With as much power as you are putting down, you might want to hire an engineer in case you need additional supports made lol. Can't hurt to try that new mount though. Probably could sell them too. There were no R-H upper poly mounts offered for J or N cars that i could find a few years back.

LOL figured that vid. was not full send! What is up with the IAC?

[[ion] C2]

People won't even buy my rare, high end strut bar for $30 shipped on the Olds Alero Owners facebook group or Grand Am Marketplace

ain't nobody buying engine mounts haha

[[ion] C2]

Oh yeah I guess I didn't mention why I changed out the IAC valve. I stalled it hard at a light. If you let out the clutch too quick and at too low of an RPM it is harsh. When I turned it back on it would only idle at like 350-500 rpm and was quite rich. Popped the hood at our destination and noticed the IAC body was wobbly, figured that shouldn't be like that. After I turned it back on it idled at the normal 1,000.

The idle has always been hard to control, not sure why they didn't replace it the whole time it was in the shop and being dyno'd. I recall hearing it make odd clicking noises when the car was on and key off every so often.

Haven't driven it since, but hopefully that fixed it.

[[ion] C2]

https://i.imgur.com/Nm8EZew.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/omFLM7l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fCIMlMw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/IfcVlZf.jpg

[[ion] C2]

https://i.imgur.com/IbJ9Viw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vHyozpy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gEif4Mk.jpg

[dbral]

Wow, nice shots! How is she running?

There is word of people somehow incorporating the hardcore diesel FASS fuel filter and pick-up system for their drag cars. Supposedly it is able to fit into a stock F-body tank.

[[ion] C2]

It runs great when I have fuel. Now I'm hearing it might be end of this week that I can drop it off... really want this done ASAP so I can get video. Haven't driven it since I replaced the IAC though, hopefully it works and doesn't need any calibration. I don't want to drive it while the fuel issue exists, and I hate the vibration.

The last parts I need to pour the polyurethane mount come in today, but since I don't have an oven that can maintain 150 degrees, the cure time will be 7 days before I can install it.

It would only take 18 hours if I had a way to maintain 150 degrees. Pretty sure most toaster ovens have a minimum of 200 degrees. I need something (preferably cheap) that can also fairly accurately not exceed 150 lol.

[dbral]

Hope that the new IAC takes care of the idle issues and maybe the shop can set it up for you if need be. Guessing with a loose body like you found the pintle position would not be very accurate. Going to check for what you found on our Cavalier. Randomly the idle does something similar. Never thought to look for that.

lol there are a couple of cheap toaster ovens on amazon that have a warm function under the 200 degree setting. Probably wouldn't make any pop tarts in it afterwards though lol. Might be beneficial to let it cure over the 7 days to help remove possible air pockets maybe? Never tried what you are doing before but interested in the outcome for sure. The 5 speed driver-side block looking mount has been discontinued for ages. Would like to try and make one like you are doing.

[[ion] C2]

It's bubbly, since I don't have a vacuum chamber, but hopefully it's just superficial and on the bottom only. We'll see next Monday when I take it out.

https://i.imgur.com/o859bfQ.jpg

[[ion] C2]

Lol so I reached out to an interior shop that seemed good quality, they said their interior work starts at $20,000 and up. A bit higher than I had anticipated...

[LRM88]

Very nice pictures of a great looking coupe.

[[ion] C2]

Very nice pictures of a great looking coupe.
Thanks bud

Bought a 3D scanner so I can:


scan the entire exterior and have someone model custom bumper ideas
scan my seats and interior and make a seat belt guide for my recaros
scan some Volk TE37 options and see how they will fit around my brakes :O
scan the front of the car and design a tow hook based on the attachment point

[[ion] C2]

Had a big brain idea to cure this polyurethane quicker without a dedicated oven that can hold 150 F. Sous vide.

https://i.imgur.com/RaWhdl4.jpg

[[ion] C2]

So it's cured and ready. I knock it out of the mold, uninstall the existing engine mount, and prepare this one for install. It looks perfect.

https://i.imgur.com/rJImZPf.jpg

It's installed, and I torque the nuts to 65 ft-lb.

https://i.imgur.com/v4SqHtW.jpg

A few minutes later, I'm sitting in the car about to turn it on, talking on the phone.

BANG

I get out of the car and notice this new dent in the hood.

https://i.imgur.com/hFLUfRh.jpg

I knew immediately what happened. The studs I used were not the right material/temper, and couldn't handle the tension. The only studs I could find in the size I needed were "Class 45H". I asked the fastener company what it was comparable to, but they weren't sure. Turns out, it "very specifically applies to fasteners not under tensile stress." Other articles state "Any application of tensile stress goes against the intended use of the screw and can lead to failure." They are supposed to be used as set screws only.

https://i.imgur.com/UmnSWkZ.jpg

I reinstalled the OEM mount for now. Ordered class 12.9 threaded rod which I'll have to cut to size. Will probably try it on the next chassis, and just keep the OEM installed for now on this car.

[[ion] C2]

Oh, and the new IAC seemed to need somewhat of a learning process. At first, when I was backing out of the garage, it wanted to idle low, 600-700. Noticed the RPMs very quickly dropped between shifts, and at the end of the first road, it shut off because when I coasted to the stop the RPMs just fell all the way down.

After I turned it back on, at the next stop sign it maintained 800+ rpm. Then the entire drive afterward it was able to successfully keep 1000 rpm at every stop I made. All good.

[dbral]

Sucks about that stud but could have been way worse if it let go while you were over top of it.

Excited about the mount you were able to make. It looks official! Great idea for consistent cure temperature too.

Good fix with the IAC and hope your project keeps moving forward

[[ion] C2]

Sucks about that stud but could have been way worse if it let go while you were over top of it.
Definitely, I didn't even have safety glasses on. I put them on before removing the other nut after the one broke though. Would have been bad for the car if both broke while driving and I had no engine mount connection at all lol.

I should have the car back tomorrow and be able to get some in-car video.

[[ion] C2]

60-130
https://youtu.be/UdCHdFfh1bw

Was so focused on keeping it straight (it pulls left and right the entire time under load and is absolutely terrifying) that the 3-4 shift was suuuuper slow. I'm sure it's in the 6s with a fast shift.

Instead of having a phone mount record the video, I figured I'd do it right and have my fancy GoPro setup and external mic mounted to the seat. The GoPro inadvertently swiveled and faced the back seat before the run, capturing nothing. I figured, OK, I'll pull the dashcam footage and sync it up, but it turns out my dashcam videos are corrupt. Awesome. At least you get to hear it.

[Oldsnut]

Sounds Great!

[dbral]

X2^^!

[[ion] C2]

So I'm definitely going to have fender braces made to stiffen the front end of the car chassis, but this torque steer is basically amplified by the wheels being offset outward and negative cambered so much. Based on my limited research into what causes torque steer and what types of suspension parts vehicles without torque steer (Civic Type R) employ, I would need to custom make some knuckles to mostly eliminate it by making the turning axis centered within the wheel so there is no forward/rearward torque applied influencing the steering.

https://i.imgur.com/tfZo4rN.png (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw5-lVlzNoY&t=275s)

Basically redesigning the entire way the front suspension works. Not sure if I'm going to do that, as I don't know much about suspension and it's easy to make things handle worse.

Otherwise just fender bracing, polyurethane control arm bushings (ordered), custom control arms (just because I want to make some), and custom coilovers will be the extent I go and just endure the remaining wild torque steer it will still produce... I think I will also lower the ball joint position so the car's roll center is lower after watching a lot of videos on that.

Going to get a daytime video when I'm able (around Oct 19) so you guys can see how wild it is to stay straight. It's truly terrifying lol.

[dbral]

The suspension example shown in the video is everything that the Alero is not lol. There are a lot of boxes to check off to get to that level for sure. Have you decided what suspension/driveline you want to use with the next build?

[[ion] C2]

Yeah I mentioned a while back I had decided to stay with FWD, since there are quick FWD cars and traction isn't as big of a problem as I thought it would be. So I got the LSD and installed it, and plan to brace up the new chassis and install poly bushings and such. Going to start doing work to it shortly.

But I had a surprise wake up call about torque steer and it made me wonder if I should actually still go RWD or AWD. Then I started thinking if I did that, I should make it an automatic trans too, because I'm not great at driving manual. I hate taking off from stops with this clutch. While it's fun to shift, an auto would shift much faster (as I don't want to break the manual trans from slamming through the gears as fast as possible) and I can just get in and go without the stress of stalling it at lights/stop signs. Not sure what trans I would even use though.

[dbral]

Oh man, not an auto trans. noooo!!! lol How about a type r suspension swap and somehow hook that honda 6 speed to your engine. Joking of course but holy crap did you see how smooth/quick that trans was able to be shifted? Dang...so refined.

No idea what a/t would handle your power levels either. Guessing a big expensive custom one would be needed lol. Check out "bullseye powered ZZP Grand prix" on you tube. Serious fwd action that may be close to your output. Sounds like an auto to me but not sure. It is an older video but maybe the people can still be reached and are willing to answer questions.

Nothing wrong with with improving and experimenting with what you already have like you are doing. After following your build for years, i predict you will progress from modding the hell out of what you have to a full suspension swap from something else when it is all said and done lol That is the definition of hotrodding right there in my opinion.

[[ion] C2]

Turbo sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOH1sQrUeEE

Couldn't do full throttle 60-130 stuff, seemed sketchy as there's a big clunking issue up front. Something's up with the suspension or brakes.

[dbral]

Nice vid and hope you get the front end noise repaired and ready for a WOT highway pull

Any thoughts of RWD ?

[[ion] C2]

I flip flop, probably just stay FWD manual lol. The torque steer is manageable and will be improved with the proper suspension/hub changes I'm making. The car is almost exactly where I want it to be, so it's a little ridiculous to make such a drastic change at this point from a cost/benefit perspective.

Should be doing the half cage and fender bars this month.

Also working on 3D scanning things and designing them (seat belt guide, intake tubing, and potential body kit).

And should have a couple high quality photos in 2 weeks too. Having a pro take a couple particular shots I'm looking for...

[dbral]

Good deal bud. Looking forward to what you have in mind for the suspension changes. Big challenge you are facing right there for sure though. i imagine there is quite a lot of learning involved with just driving a car like yours at speed even after you get the suspension where it needs to be. But when you get it set up and you feel comfortable with it look out....Would love to see an Alero tearing it up on a road course, esp. on the straights lol.

[[ion] C2]

C2;667988']Couldn't do full throttle 60-130 stuff, seemed sketchy as there's a big clunking issue up front. Something's up with the suspension or brakes.

There's a definite clunk when braking perhaps 70% power, and then when initiating a high torque situation from the engine afterward. The only thing I can find is that the wheels have a lot of rotational play compared to the stock Alero I have.

From the video, it seems like maybe the wheel is able to turn before the axle does, indicating possible issues with the CV joint that's there, or the hub in some way, perhaps.

VIDEO: https://youtube.com/shorts/P02vbDRWJIg
Sorry for the excess breathing noises, had the phone right against my face lol.

[dbral]

In the last 3 second or so of the video it does look like the inner clamp/axle stays stationary while the wheel/CV/boot are turned. Does look like quite a bit of slop. Is that a stock axle? Could you swap with your other car as a test?

May be something else going on too. From your description, it could possibly be suspension/subframe/chassis related. Would be great to have a set of electronic chassis ears to narrow down the location. Guessing there is no way to duplicate the noise without actually driving. Would not hurt to put a wrench on all of your subframe/control arm/knuckle bolts/ball joint nuts and such too. As many times as that subframe probably has been out recently, maybe something just did not get tightened or tightened enough maybe. Dang man, if it's not one thing it's another for you.

You can get a basic Steelman Chassis ears set on amazon for around $100. Might be worth it

[[ion] C2]

That's cool I didn't know a tool like that existed .

I just realized the clunk is the same one I've been hearing when I stall the car harshly, and hearing it during braking and hard acceleration started after the recent extremely hard stall that was louder than usual.

I had examined the engine movement a month ago on camera when you jerk the engine and it made the noise even though nothing in the bay touches anything.

Pretty sure it's just these old CV joints after taking quite a beating with all the high instantaneous torque from harsh stalls and hard shifting.

[dbral]

Have a little experience with that tool and thinking that it does pretty good with locating heavy/sharp type noises. It didn't help me with softer noises and some squeaks very much but that might have been user error on my part.

Hoping the axles fix your issue so you can keep moving forward but if not (and for the record, i don't know anything about chassis dynos lol) was wondering if you could set your car up on a dyno and try to duplicate road conditions in that fashion? Just throwing that out there as a last resort type thing. Not sure if dyno shops use their stuff in that manner, safety factor, and whatever else is involved.

[[ion] C2]

Installed the old IAC and everything is fine. The new style IAC just apparently doesn't like to jive with my system.

Tried to have a shop replace the axles, they claim they tried as hard as they can and cannot get them out of the transmission. I don't understand since these axles have been removed and reinstalled at least 3 times now. Why would they be stuck. Frustrating.

Here's what happened after I left the shop. Unfortunately I have the mic off because I used to have that super stiff engine mount that made everything vibrate, figured it would be useless audio, but will turn it back on:
https://youtu.be/5YHWlC9d-8Q

[dbral]

LOL yeah there are some impatient and out of touch drivers on the road for sure. Funny how you left that whole group of cars behind in like 4 seconds once you got it going.

Had a few stubborn axles that required someone to help lightly pry down and pull outward opposite of the side that i was striking or prying to kind of square things up to allow that circlip to release. Don't remember having trouble removing them in our Alero or Cavalier. Thinking i just popped them out with a long flat prybar with a bend on the end.

Then there was the heavy-duty IFS GM front diffs that the circlip would jam itself into the axle side gear during removal. It was always the left side stubby axle for some reason. Those were nightmares but they would come out like 1/2 inch or so before the bad stuff really happened.

A worst case scenario would be that the axle splines and side gear splines in the diff are starting to strip and they are in a condition where they jammed themselves together. You could check for that maybe by jacking the car up like you had it in the video and pulling and pushing on the inner axle housing/tri-pots. They should slide in and out of the trans slightly, maybe like 1/8" or so.

Never seen that happen but you have enough power to cause something like that to happen i would imagine lol. Would explain your noise on accel but braking?....and would have thought they would have stripped out completely by now if that was the case but who knows. Hope you get it squared away. What about taking it back to that performance shop?

[[ion] C2]

Yeah I'll have to just kick up the RPMs to 2k+ every time I leave a light just to be safe. Like with my last clutch, I would baby it too much and it would be like nope RPM too low INSTANT STALL lol. Most cars you can immediately disengage it and you can save it, but this thing is just.. bang done. Whatev, if I burn it out quickly it's just the cost of having outrageously higher torque than stock. If the clutch was larger diameter there'd be better options for smooth engagement out there. Hoping I can get Centerforce to make me something still. Gonna 3D scan the bellhousing to give them more info to work with and email them to see if there's any chance they can help me soon.

Ya I'll just have UMS do 'em. Trying to get my truck in there keep waiting on their schedule to open up. All my turbo supplies are in the truck bed drawers ready to go. Time to boost it.

Pretty darn sure it's just the CV that's damaged, but even if I break them it won't be a dangerous failure, so I have no concerns continuing to drive it in the meantime. Will try to get some more in-car footage very soon.

[[ion] C2]

Tiny bit of flexing on a BMW and an example of torque steer on the highway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTWTym2XdR8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTWTym2XdR8)

[sleepyalero]

I need to see some real getting down.

[[ion] C2]

Well the other video I posted was at 85% throttle, but I went out to get some full power highway stuff for you and on my way to the gas station the clutch pedal stopped working. The pedal hits what feels like a hard wall halfway down. Coasted off into a neighborhood, waited forever for tow truck, towed it to the shop.

RWD/AWD swap looking good lately, lol. Dunno. The shop had a ton of trouble bleeding the new all plastic clutch master cylinder and it kept cracking. Luk said they don't make the old metal version anymore. If the master's the problem here, I'm gonna need to custom make one that's strong enough to work with this clutch.

https://i.imgur.com/XFfy459.jpg

[[ion] C2]

Shop says when they went to move the car from where I dropped it off, the clutch was operating perfectly fine. :blink:

So what would cause me to hit a hard wall halfway down when pressing the clutch pedal? I was repeatedly hitting it while I waited for the tow truck. Didn't try it after it was unloaded and parked, though. Maybe something in the way physically in the pedal's lever?

[dbral]

Dang man, that sucks and no telling what is up. Yeah man, maybe something stuck under the pedal/assembly or whatever under the dash or something maybe picked up from the road caught in the clutch assembly? The intermittent side of it is crazy for sure.

Remember reading a post on here that someone had a clutch pedal issue maybe similar to yours and they just said he!! with it and pushed the pedal down as hard as they could and the return spring popped out lol! Best wishes and hoping for a quick fix bud.

There have been rwd conversions that have turned out nice. There is a cav and a beretta on youtube / web right now. They are both v-8 cars w/manual trans. The only downside for me is that they were unable to keep the HVAC at the time but maybe your 4cyl set-up would allow more room to work that in? No idea, out of my skill set for sure, but would love to try something like that before i die. He!!, would love to just simply have the tools in my shop to try something like that lol. IDK, would keep persevering like you are and rolling with the punches. The car def. has flashes of brilliance. LOL BMW

Edit; would be hard for me not to put the alero on the backburner and turbo that toyota truck..Choices lol!

[[ion] C2]

Shit.

They say my differential is broken. That's why the driver axle is stuck in the trans.

Guess the transmission shop I paid $1,000 to install my $780 LSD didn't do it right. The transmission looked mint inside, had 200 miles on it, and the LSD was a brand new Quaife unit. I even dropped off the factory service manual for this particular transmission because it has all the specs and preload settings etc. but they were like "we probably don't need that" which was a bit of a red flag but I got the implication that they already have the specs/info needed on hand. I know it's supposed to be installed a certain way and requires specialized tools to do it right. There's some kind of preload on the bearings and such you need to have perfect.

I also was hearing what seemed like excessive gear noise when coasting/light throttle lately. Bet it was noise from the output shaft/differential. I saw a forum thread about the same kind of symptom I experienced and the comments were "Sounds like your shop screwed up the pinion preload."

So now what? Install my other 145,000 mile transmission? No LSD sucks. I never even got to utilize it to its potential, no burnouts, no twisty mountain driving.

[dbral]

Dammit, Thought Quaife offered a lifetime warranty on those? Would wait for picture proof from the shop as to what exactly failed in there maybe

What did they find with the intermittent clutch issue?

[[ion] C2]

I'm going to tow it to the transmission shop and have them identify what went wrong. Everyone knows things happen, and it's hard to pin the cause of whatever went wrong 100% on the trans shop, unless it's obvious something wasn't assembled correctly. I'm not sure how we'll be able to discern that it was assembly error vs. excess torque and inevitable damage from 550 lb-ft. I always ease into boost, I'm easy on it, no launching or wheel hopping.

I remember reading Quaife supposedly has never had a failure of their units themselves. I'm assuming they didn't secure it in position properly and it moved around, not engaging the output shaft gear properly, hence the loose feel and whining gear noise I would have recently.

[[ion] C2]

Finally, an update. I towed it to the transmission shop on 11/20. Today (11/29) they put it up in the air and started investigating. They called at first because they were able to hold one wheel and turn the other, and that doesn't make sense to them as an LSD. Basically it makes you think the differential is internally broken since an LSD should well, make the other wheel turn as well eventually. I figured well, it must be broken. UMS said it was funky and the trans shop says the held wheel doesn't turn. I called up the local parts yard that has a 97k mile transmission and ordered it, figuring I'd just have to swap the trans with a stock one for now, but then...

I decided to call Quaife and ask them how I could know whether there's a failure in the differential. They emailed me me a differential checklist. Turns out it's supposed to do that. The shop said the trans fluid was low as when they removed the easy passenger side axle, nothing came out which is unusual if it was filled to the 2.6 qt recommendation. If it was under-filled (to the original factory specification) that would cause the excessive gear noise I was hearing during coasting and such.

I figured well, maybe it was just the CV joints that caused the clunk. Told them to just replace the driver side axle that was stuck, fill it to 2.6 qt and let's see how it works. On their test drive, they think the clunk is just something torquing under load with the engine/trans movement and hitting something, like the charge pipes touching something. I don't think so - I am pretty in tune with my car. So I'll have to look and try to find another source of the clunk. They weren't able/willing to replace the driver axle since it was stuck in the diff, suggested I just drive it for now.

As far as the hydraulic issue with the pedal stopping halfway, apparently it works perfectly fine at the moment. I had Clutch Masters create another billet throw out bearing (number 2 of 2 in existence) and I bought a spare clutch master cylinder and hose setup in order to evaluate how to improve it. I immediately see the "dry-break" plastic stuff UMS was talking about, and can see how that could cause an issue. My plan is to cut and flare the hard line from the master cylinder, and connect a flexible braided hose to the Clutch Masters throw out bearing. I think the Clutch Masters setup is a 2-hose design, which would allow you to make one hose end a bleeder, making it super simple to ensure the whole system is bled. I think that will prevent any weird air-lock occurring in the original plastic configuration.

https://i.imgur.com/lwp3UvJ.png

[dbral]

They weren't able/willing to replace the driver axle since it was stuck in the diff, suggested I just drive it for now.

Hmmm, well okay. That kinda sucks. Maybe they are just too busy to spend much time with it? Was looking at pics of Quaife diffs. Guessing yours is the Torsen style. If so, those are like little engineering marvels. There is a vid on youtube that explains how it works. lol it is hard for me to wrap my head around completely but i kinda get it and does makes sense that it would act like an open diff during Quaife's test steps. Pretty cool design. Have heard of these for years but never looked into them until now.

lol as maybe a last resort to remove that LH axle, it looks like some Quaife diffs have an open hole all the way through the carrier, (No pin needed because no spider gears needed maybe?) so if you remove the pass. side axle you may be able to drive/tap out the LH axle through that opening using a long brass drift possibly? Maybe have someone on the other side evenly prying out on the axle at the same time too? Should not require a lot of force though... Might want to talk to Quaife about that problem too.

What is the "dry-break" issue with the master cyls. they are finding?

Grrrr, the last "low mileage" f23 that i bought had a grinding / sometimes no shift into 4th. Hope you don't end up needing it, but if you do i hope it's okay

[[ion] C2]

That's what I was thinking, just don't want to break the diff or trans cast aluminum housing though. I'm not convinced 100% it's the axles though.

I drove it back today and unfortunately the clutch hydraulic issue showed up intermittently lol. I made it to like 1/2 mile away from my house and couldn't shift from 1-2, coasted to a stop. I wiggled the clutch hydraulic line and the plastic piece and that seemed to make the pedal work for 2 more presses, allowing me to use 2nd gear to get home.

I hit the brakes hard to see if I could hear any difference in the clunk. It was only on the passenger side this time (and they replaced the passenger axle, so it can't be that). I'm actually thinking it's something with the brakes again, I'm going to do a more thorough inspection.

I'll take some pics of how the current hydraulic setup works, I have spare parts of it all. Basically the master cylinder side has some hard metal tubing that leads to a T which has a bleeder screw, and then a male plastic protrusion with an o-ring that also has a conical shape, and an apparent spring loaded valve inside to prevent fluid from leaking out. So when you stick it into the female conical slave cylinder's connection, it has a plus-sign shaped piece in the center which presses the valve, opening flow. I just think there's still air in the system and the plastic fitting is moving enough that it's actually closing. It's possible they didn't stick it in far enough.

I'll do some checking tomorrow.

Yeah this transmission I have is awesome and low mileage. Would be nice to have a backup that's also super low mileage and in great condition.

Or... I just realized the K20 engine layout in the bay is the same as my engine. So what the Honda guys do for AWD swap should work for me too...

[dbral]

I'll take some pics of how the current hydraulic setup works, I have spare parts of it all. Basically the master cylinder side has some hard metal tubing that leads to a T which has a bleeder screw, and then a male plastic protrusion with an o-ring that also has a conical shape, and an apparent spring loaded valve inside to prevent fluid from leaking out. So when you stick it into the female conical slave cylinder's connection, it has a plus-sign shaped piece in the center which presses the valve, opening flow. I just think there's still air in the system and the plastic fitting is moving enough that it's actually closing. It's possible they didn't stick it in far enough.

Ahhh....that makes total sense and would explain what's up for sure. If that valve is closed, fluid is going nowhere and neither is your clutch pedal. Come to think of it, got an OEM clutch master cyl for our cavalier a few years back and it came pre-bled with fluid in the reservoir AND with the line and connector/valve you just described...just bolted it up and plugged it in and it worked. Guessing that GM used that connector/valve for super-quick assembly line awesomeness....not caring that 20+ years down the road, when most all of the OEM parts are gone, that issues like yours are going to arise. Your plan of eliminating that connection style with your modded (billet!) throw-out brg. will prob. be a good repair.

It's possible they didn't stick it in far enough.


LOL!...All joking aside, that very well may be...they are not easy to connect together. Almost feels like the slave side is going to break. Also too, as the pressure inside the fitting increases when you press the pedal, it may be forcing the two connector halves apart and closing that valve. The tolerances between the parts are prob. not as exacting as OEM so mixing and matching stuff (because we have no choice:( ) may be an issue as well.

Man, hope you go AWD. That would be over the top

[[ion] C2]

What's funny is if you look up master/slave cyls on auto parts sites like AutoZone, it literally says in the description "DIFFICULT TO BLEED" haha. Yeah it would make total sense if the fittings aren't fully seated.

Yeah AWD would be next level. Amazing traction right from the launch. It is something I really would like, it's just going to take a LOT of custom work. But I might just go for it. The car runs as-is. Sure, it's rusty. But I can mock up and prepare the other chassis and go all out on it getting it ready, then just bring over the engine and other stuff... I have the money.... wonder how long it would take.

Figuring out hubs, custom subframes, custom axles, custom driveshaft, the shifter setup, clutch options, bellhousing adapter..... I mean it's doable... would definitely make this thing the ultimate Alero...

[[ion] C2]

Definitely the issue. My new master cylinder and slave cylinder that I have sitting around fit much better than the ones that're installed... basically I'm at risk of the pedal not working if the plastic piece wiggles just the right way and blocks flow. I was trying to find a way to cable tie the assembly in but man it's tight down there. Hard to see what I can wrap around to pull it as linearly as possible inward to the female portion. Would be a decent band aid fix.

https://i.imgur.com/xm35Dh6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/IKPv8Pu.jpg

My new slave cylinder nor my new master cylinder came with the spring clip/staple thing that holds them together. The one that's installed looks like this, I think it might have just been rigged up by the shop. It's easy for it to slide off and fall out, and doesn't hold well:
https://i.imgur.com/av3DwNL.png

A picture from a slave cylinder on Amazon shows this, which is a much different shape:
https://i.imgur.com/2lDz24r.png

So yeah, this is what it's supposed to be:
https://i.imgur.com/YKSYGnR.png

Probably thicker and holds it better.

[[ion] C2]

I was able to swap my spare slave cylinder with another at O'Reilly that included the clip, and then my wife and I installed it. Works WAY better. Male fitting is snugly all the way in. Hopefully that fixes my issues. I do have the clutch masters option here in case it ends up being necessary in the end... but I think I am going to make the other Alero AWD...

https://i.imgur.com/p6pOD6D.jpg

I think I found the clunk:
https://youtube.com/shorts/CFdsruFxaAc

Remember how I said it sounds very similar to when I used to not use brake pad anti-rattle clips and the pads would shift in the caliper during braking? Looks like the pads are able to move in this setup too.

With brief Googling, I found this thread. https://www.ctsvowners.com/threads/clunk-when-hitting-brakes.161184/

Just pads shifting, no big deal. These Power Stop calipers seem to have a few quirks. Probably should've gotten new OEM or something. Oh well don't really care a long as it's not a function or safety concern. Only happens when braking hard.

https://i.imgur.com/dKaI4q8.jpg

[dbral]

Great news about your clutch issue. Sounds like you got it squared away.

Oh yeah, AWD would make your next car a whole different animal. Adapting Honda drivetrain stuff like you mentioned would prob. be a good foundation as those parts have already been proven in other high hp swaps. There is a Cav. on youtube that someone swapped in a Saab AWD setup into as well. Might be some useful info in that build vid. that might be helpful too. Wish i had some real world knowledge to share with you on that subject but have never attempted anything close to that caliber. lol i can only dream of such things....but maybe one day....

As far as how much $ and time is required to do that swap.....Yes, lol. Not sure how much time and money you do have to spare but honestly if i had both of those things i would build a separate shop, install a lift, then purchase basic machine tools (lathe/mill etc.) and a higher end TIG and spend all the time i had at first getting really good and solid at the basics of fab. work. Learn all of the necessary BMP's that i need to build off of and when i felt comfortable, put them into practice with my car. Dreaming of course, but if i could i absolutely would. If i won the lotto, i would jump down that rabbit hole with both feet lol. Not sure if that approach would be something you would be interested in but it would allow you to be in total control of your build and you would learn a lot of cool sh!t in the process and truthfully you would never stop learning. The sky is the limit with that...

Hopefully that is your clunk noise. As a test, maybe you could run a small bead of RTV on the metal pad/caliper contact points/edges, let it dry, then take it for a drive and see if the noise changes/goes away? Seems like a lot of clearance. Cool setup but crazy pad slop. Extra clearance for heat expansion/heavy duty use maybe? Is there a way to verify that they gave you the correct pads for that setup?

[[ion] C2]

I have a fabricator who would be into handling the custom welding needs. Just a matter of figuring out what parts to buy, making the adapter plate, and welding up any customized mounts and the rear subframe setup.

Ever since I picked it up from the transmission shop, the air fuel ratio has been stuck at the highest it can read. Laptop says the sensor is reading maxed out. Sigh. Interrupted my plan to get some high throttle footage, don't want to be running without a wideband reading. Don't see any wire breakage so far, but still inspecting...

[dbral]

I have a fabricator who would be into handling the custom welding needs.
Good deal. Still going to be quite expensive i would imagine and no telling how much time would be involved. As long as your fabricator keeps you in the loop, the time should pass fairly quickly. Being able to see the actual progress and working together to keep things progressing/overcoming problems is huge. Hopefully that will be the situation for you and your build.

Dang, sucks about the wideband issue. Recently there have been complaints on other forums of faulty sensors. AEM and Bosch were mentioned. Hopefully it is something simple

[[ion] C2]

The plan is to get some exterior video/audio of me going around some mountain bends next weekened, but I also want to get some in-car POV high throttle stuff to show it off. Gotta get that wideband fixed - although it's running off the tune okay, I like being able to monitor things and I'm sure it's better for the ECU to get a live feed of real AFR in case of issues.

Gonna look at it more on Sunday, if I can't figure it out, the shop said I could swing by and their electrical guru I'm sure will figure it out immediately.

For AWD, I just have to figure out what main parts I need, 3D scan the transmission and the engine and design the adapter plate (I'm sure it has to be damn perfect so the input shaft is perfectly centered with the crank) and hope that someone can either make a custom input shaft setup that's the right splines and length for me to use the usual clutch setups, or do my best to convince Centerforce to make me something that will work in this LD9 engine/Honda transmission setup lol.

[dbral]

Love the direction you have chosen for the next build and quite jealous as well lol! Probably going to be a pretty long road but hoping it is a good road for you and your build...def. going to be interesting one for sure, and you can still have fun with your current car in the meantime so that's a plus.

Hoping to see more footage when you get the issue repaired. Yeah, no need to take any chances

[[ion] C2]

I'm hoping it's a short road. Get the parts, throw money at my fabricator, and have this other car up and running AWD, then transfer over the good stuff from the main car.

Ordered a flexible inspection camera to try to see any potential wiring issues in spots I can't see, but also ordered another wideband sensor just in case the sensor itself is bad, might as well try it. I found some stories of people whose Bosch LSU 4.9 sensors just up and died unexpectedly and it would show max lean.

[[ion] C2]

Replaced wideband, works perfect. I think where it's positioned isn't optimal, exposes the sensor element directly to what comes out the turbine, so any spatter of condensation or fuel hits it. We'll see how long this one lasts.

Idle ended up being stuck around 2,000 RPM after a highway pull. I think the IAC is kinda sticky. Gonna clean and lube it. Went back to normal after a couple hard jolts/wiggling it.

Got a decent clip for you:
https://youtu.be/jEqNPKXV0DE (https://youtu.be/jEqNPKXV0DE)

[dbral]

That is some impressive get up and go. LOL the speedo display can't keep up even in the triple digits. Gotta be fun right there!

Hard to tell from the vid. but the torque steer seems somewhat manageable but depressions and off-camber/crappy road conditions prob. make it even worse though.

[[ion] C2]

I've been so busy with work the last month I haven't been able to do much with the Alero. Trying to figure out why coastdown/idle is so unpredictable, but I assume the -20% closed loop correction has something to do with it. It's so rich for some reason at low/no throttle. Stuck injector perhaps? Dunno.

I washed it 3 weeks ago and took it out to a spot for a sunset photo. Drove fine there. When I went to leave, it kept wanting to die as soon as I disconnect the engine from the trans. So the wheels turning were supporting the engine spinning when my throttle plate was closed. It kept dying and I kept letting out the clutch to re-engage and get it running again, which resulted in a VERY unpleasant, bucking, jerking 2 mile drive home. It was essentially un-drive-able because any time I had to slow down to a stop, I had to press the clutch pedal and that immediately resulted in the engine turning off. Battery wasn't doing too good to start it back up.

https://i.imgur.com/OjpfiVP.jpg

Replaced my battery with the highest end X2 AGM battery to help with it being parked for long periods without a battery tender, and having enough juice to restart the car over and over when the thing stalls. Emailed the tuner right after it happened, he suggested I let him drive it a couple days. Haven't done that yet, just emailed him the logs from back then yesterday though, maybe something will be obvious. I think the IAC is being controlled backwards, and also losing its position by bottoming out. I'm going to try to test a few things and inspect its operation tomorrow. Change a few settings like the max/min clamp % on the IAC so it doesn't max out or overheat. Maybe flip polarity if I can confirm it truly is operating backwards. As far as I understand it, IAC valve pintles' home position should be fully closed. In my case, it seems to home at open.

I was supposed to have a photoshoot Jan 10, but the photographer was sick, plus I hadn't driven my car since that horrible drive home. Would be nice to fix that first. I have a great idea for an intro video of my car that I want to film ASAP.

I still haven't had time to research exactly what transmission etc. I need for AWD, going to try to get some answers today and then push my fabricator to get going on the other chassis regarding the cage and fender bracing, plus this AWD fitment.

The shop's trying to get my truck dyno ready this week. It's looking good.

https://i.imgur.com/xUu5amy.jpg

[dbral]

Excited to see how your Toyota turns out. Looking good so far and surprisingly decent amount of room in the engine bay for fun stuff add-ons

According to the GM FSM, the IAC pintle bottoms out then retracts a predetermined distance every time the key is turned off.....the key off thing surprised me but i guess it makes sense though. Assume that holds true for your performance tune and stand-alone but not sure there

Can you confirm if the commanded IAC counts are trying compensate and elevate the idle when the low idle problem occurs?

Possibly an issue with the TB causing the butterfly to physically not close in the same spot inside the bore consistently maybe? Loose butterfly/throttle shaft screws, exc.play in throttle shaft, worn/notchy throttle stop or screw, binding throttle cable or cable adj. too tight possibly. Does the TPS show the same return voltage every time the throttle is closed? Maybe the TPS itself is physically binding lol

Suppose you could verify correct pintle direction by plugging in another IAC to your harness and watch it move while commanding it with a scan tool. Looks like if you command a lower idle speed, the pintle should extend away from the IAC body. Over extension/retraction may NOK the test part though, especially if you turn the key off with it still hooked up lol, but thinking this should verify the direction.

Cool pic and waiting to hear what you decide for sure with the drivetrain swap

[dbral]

Reading through the fsm but unable to find out how the PCM detects or determines the bottom (fully seated/count 0) pintle travel during key off reset. Supposedly the PCM cannot "see" pintle movement but instead relies on the precision of the stepper motor to do it's thing and move correctly with each command after each reset. GM has an IAC testing tool that may or may not help but looks expensive. Hope you get it figured out and get some more footage up soon.

Are you still happy with your Link ecu? If you were to do it again now, would you go with another system?

[[ion] C2]

Link is great. I just haven't learned how to use it fully yet. I shouldn't really have to, as the car should be tuned and ready to rock from the get go, and I just use the software for diagnosis. However, since there is a problem with the existing tune in regards to idle control and very low throttle fueling, I'm trying to learn (when I have time) how to properly adjust everything. I don't want to give my car to the tuner for days/weeks if I can figure it out myself. I'm kind of hesitant after having it gone for almost 3 years.

I've been insanely busy all day every day for work the last 2 months, though, so I just recently started to try to learn what exactly is going on, and I learned a few things. I have the Evans Performance Academy video course for this ECU and they thoroughly explain how to tune everything, so I just need to watch it in detail, and follow the process.

I changed the number of idle air control stepper steps from 310 to 160, and then clamped it 15% - 90% of the max values so it shouldn't ever bottom out in either direction and thus lose its understanding of what percentage it's truly open. I kept having my wife key on/off the car to reset its position as I adjusted the steps and then set percentage open to see how far it moves to find its limits. Originally, I think it would bottom out inadvertently when commanded at high/low percentages, and then it would not actually be where it was commanded from then on.

Now I need to follow the tuning instructions that Evans provides (and perhaps this forum thread: https://forums.linkecu.com/topic/5290-revs-holding-before-return-to-idle/) and adjust the actual commanded stepper position values in open loop. Right now just from changing that, it holds the RPM too high when coasting to a stop so that it's still above the lockout RPM of 1800. It seems to command 50% stepper position while driving, and that's too far open after what I changed. Yesterday during my brief first drive after adjusting the min/max percentage and reducing the number of steps from 310 to 160, it was sitting at 2,000 RPM and thus wouldn't enter the state where it starts controlling the idle (until it went under 1800). A couple revs and brief dip under 1800 from engaging the wheels a bit triggered it to start calming itself down to 1,000 RPM.

I could just tell UMS what I found and have them adjust the idle, and the low end fueling. It's definitely way off on idle/coastdown/light throttle as my AFR error is always pegged at -20% (wayyyy too rich, like 10.0 AFR at idle/light throttle/coastdown). So obviously it needs some tuning on the low end. I think it was always unusually rich at idle ever since I got it back in March, but it's gotten worse after fixing vacuum leaks (obviously resulting in more fuel during vacuum conditions), so it definitely needs fuel table tuning. I could probably do this myself like I used to back in the day with HPTuners and AFR error.

My main priority is researching AWD parts and selecting what I need so I can push my fabricator to start working on my other chassis and get that project rolling. Plus nudging UMS about the custom JE pistons that are supposed to be being made so we can get this other engine built and ready to mock up with the AWD setup.

I should finally have some time after this week.

[dbral]

To smoothly drop RPM down to target the ECU subtracts a fixed non-user-adjustable number of steps off the stepper motor table value for about a second, and then adopts the table value for about a second, and then adopts closed loop control.

If i am understanding that write-up correctly, the gm iac becomes non-linear with air flow/amount once the pintle reaches a certain position maybe, so that persons strategy to overcome gm crappiness seems to be to keep the pintle as close to the seat as possible and still maintain desired rpm. Sucks you can't control the pre-programmed idle smoothing decel feature because it seems that might be an easier way to custom tailor and help with your issue. Hopefully changing the clamping/lockout values helps.

Interested in seeing what AWD parts you decide to graft in there and yeah, work gets in the way of the fun stuff here too. Hope you are making progress with your build and tuning

[[ion] C2]

I think I know some of the parts I need.

$10,197
gearDriven Honda AWD K-Series PPG SYNCHRO GEARBOX Manual Transmission
2.75 / 1.93 / 1.40 / 1.05 helical gears
Quaife LSD
PPG 4.0 final drive
5 speed

Original Getrag F23 in these cars has the following ratios:
3.58 / 2.02 / 1.35 / 0.98
3.94 final drive

I figure it's close to OEM ratios, but first gear is drastically different. I think it will cause it to be slower to rev in first, which isn't a bad thing as first is very fast currently.

$5,026
Drag Cartel AWD K-SERIES GEAR COMBO & TRANSFER CASE
Nutty price, but I think it's the best/strongest one...

$1,500
AKDBuilt RT4WD Billet Viscous Coupler
Supposed to be a serviceable strong version of the OEM viscous coupler on the old Civic wagons.

$3,690
Oldschool Capital OEM rebuilt Civic Wagon rear differential
Absolutely insane prices, but that's because all the cool kids are doing AWD swaps on their Hondas.

$1,000
Quaife LSD for rear diff

$460
K-Tuned TSX shifter KTD-TSX-AC2
I think this one works with this transmission. Pretty wild looking.

We're at $20,000 in parts alone, not including:

custom front/rear driveshafts
custom front axles
custom rear axles
custom differential mounting solution
custom viscous coupler mounting solution
custom engine/transmission mounts depending on location of axle output relative to original axles
rear hubs
custom struts/springs
custom rear trailing arms/lateral links
shift cables
fuel tank/fuel cell
revised exhaust routing
bellhousing adapter
fabrication labor

Clutch
The cool thing is the 02-06 CR-V AWD transmission uses a 1 inch, 24 spline input shaft, the same as the Alero. I'll have to figure out whether the clutch masters setup will work as is, or require modifications to its thickness etc. to properly activate via whatever CR-V release system exists (an arm setup it seems). The length of the splines on the Getrag F23 seem much longer than the CR-V, which will probably be an issue. Also seems like there's less room. Maybe I need to use a Honda CR-V clutch and just adapt it/space it out to the Alero flywheel or a custom flywheel. That way the clutch/pressure plate is in the proper position for the CRV release bearing to function normally, and the flywheel would be in the normal LD9 position, allowing the starter to engage and such.

Release bearing
This is another tricky one. I don't know how to configure the CR-V transmission's release bearing arm to work with the existing Alero clutch master cylinder and operate at certain limits.

https://i.imgur.com/iM9ajL5.jpg

I ordered a $1k regular OEM used transmission to test fit and design things. Since the trans/transfer case is the most expensive part when built, I can just make the new chassis AWD using the cheap trans and then switch over once it's confirmed working as an AWD Alero.

[dbral]

Awesome!!!!!

[[ion] C2]

I think this is how the gearing works out. Should keep those RPMs high and really fly through the gears.

https://i.imgur.com/6LNYFBt.png

[dbral]

That 50 mph first gear is going to be killer. Suspect that you have more than enough power to hit 186 in 5th if you want to.

Remembering that our 92 cavalier had some type of an external slave cylinder set-up. Not sure if parts from something like that could be made to work for that Honda trans. Maybe Wilwood could help too. Looks like that had maybe a cable actuated fork? Might be able to hang a Honda clutch pedal under the dash or mimic the Honda set-up and stick with the cable system somehow?

[[ion] C2]

The CR-V is hydraulic, so it might be as simple as connecting the line. The CR-V and K-series engines also definitely have pilot bearings for the trans input shaft, so whatever clutch setup I have, we'll have to build a pilot bearing into the flywheel. Those are really the only unknowns. Everything else is just bolting things up and making mounts and axles to fit. Easy.

Owner at UMS says I'm on the right track with my parts list and plan, so that's good. Hopefully I can make AWD work on the new chassis with the cheap trans and upgrade to the beefy one later.

Truck is ready for the dyno, just needs the replacement ECU back from Haltech (original one was faulty when they went to power it on). They're going to dabble with the MAF to try to use a 2JZ one or something rather than the ugly and small diameter hunk of plastic that's currently on the turbo inlet. Exhaust is extreme quality.

https://i.imgur.com/wJOGOap.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BLEZW39.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XLo3YCz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mLIVhU1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EPmV5B6.jpg

[dbral]

Good deal on the clutch set-up plans.

They did a nice job on the exhaust and your truck is clean underneath. Used to seeing Toyota's with rusted out frames and body parts. Those trucks would run for 500k if it wasn't for them rusting out first it seems. Liking all of the v-bands and the masking tape fender covers is a good idea. Seems like a detailed and caring shop right there

[[ion] C2]

I mostly figured out the idle tuning. I wish I had a way to reset the idle motor while the car was on, in case it was acting up because I stalled the car and didn't turn the key to OFF and wait 2 seconds before starting it again. But whatev, quirks and also just don't stall the car. Next up is optimizing the cold startup as it struggles hard. If I don't blip the throttle plate, it will crank so long it afterfires out the exhaust. I figured it was too rich, and reduced fueling by 25%, but it's still no good, so have to research that in my Link G4X training course lol. It seems like a difficult thing to master as every time you change settings to test you have to wait a long time to try another setting to make sure it's truly a cold start again.

The AWD trans is here. My 3D scanner kinda sucks I realized after multiple attempts to get a good scan, so I'm going to pay for a professional laser scan on it, the spare engine, and the old OEM trans to help me figure out what I need.

I'll need to convince RPS to make a twin or triple disc carbon clutch, apparently those are super easy to engage but hold mega power. The AWD trans doesn't have room for the 8.5" disc I currently use, so I'll be limited to a 7.25" like I used to have. The smaller diameter you go, the harder it is to operate especially with a strong clutch.

[[ion] C2]

Finally have a date with the fabricator to begin on the cage and fender bars, for real. First weekend in March. Hopefully I can get answers on the AWD 3D scanning/measuring and get that project blended in with all that as well...

I also now have power windows which is cool lol. Never had them in an Alero before. Had a local company install some aftermarket setup and it's a game changer.

Planning to put the Alero back on the dyno sometime as well and rev to 7200 just to see what the power is. Dyno was only ever done up to 6500 rpm but my limiter is 7200.

[dbral]

The carbon clutch may be the game-changer for you. First i have heard of them but they have been out for quite some time. There is a write-up from Motor Trend that features the Tilton twin disc carbon clutch. The 4cyl high-hp import guys are using them with good results on the street. Pretty awesome set-up.

Looking forward to seeing your progress and the dyno results. My guess is 650+. Good that you got the idle squared away. Sucks that you have to wait a few seconds for the reset thing to happen if it stalls but you have enough hp to catch up with traffic if it does lol.

LOL the factory power windows are awful on these cars mostly because the repair parts are cheaply made. Lost track of how many regulators and sashes we have replaced on ours. You were not missing anything. Your aftermarket set-up HAS to work better then the factory style.

Hope the Toyota is running good

[[ion] C2]

For your listening pleasure: https://youtu.be/ZhNYz3VWy_k

Plastic clutch master-to-slave connection broke so the pedal was dead and clutch was permanently engaged after this video. Had to start the car in first and get home at 15 mph lol. Always something.

Apparently truck is now running, was a dumb wiring thing. Hopefully will be ready soon, itching to drive it.

[Oldsnut]

That is the best I have ever heard an Alero sound.

[[ion] C2]

Check out the audio from the bumper microphone during wheelspin: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lVGjuDdT0PQTavcL5nX2H-xjMfvhP3cV/view?usp=sharing

[[ion] C2]

So after the plastic clutch line piece broke, the car's been at the transmission shop. I had them install the braided-line capable hydraulic release bearing that Clutch Masters provided, however, it turns out it was too tall, and is pressing on the pressure plate at all times, requiring another removal and reinstall with a correctly sized hydraulic release bearing.

The OEM and auto parts store type are 1.38 - 1.45" at their minimum height, whereas the Clutch Masters is apparently 1.925". The transmission shop revealed that there was difficulty in installation due to the throwout bearing pressing on the pressure plate, and longer bolts were necessary to install (which makes sense because the mounting flange was fairly thick compared to the stock.

I never measured the minimum height between them. Huge mistake. It's been like pulling teeth to get answers from Clutch Masters, and today I finally learned that their bearing was too tall. So now I know for certain it is a part problem, not a strange master cylinder or hydraulic issue.

I'm trying to get them to make the same thing, just with the proper minimum height. Yesterday, they told me theirs was about 1.70", so I said OK, make it 0.25" shorter and we should be good. Today they told me it's 1.925" and they can try to make it 0.25" shorter than that, which is 1.675". The one I just took out of the car can only go down to 1.70", so it would probably be fine.

https://imgur.com/6QLQwyz.jpg

Car's been sitting for a month. I would really like to drive this damn thing more than it sits. It's going to be getting warm out and I don't have A/C still. That's reserved for the big rust-free chassis project, as no point in wasting time/effort/money on this car more than necessary. I just want to drive it. I spent so much money on it just to be foiled by a stupid hydraulic fluid leak. Plastic parts breaking because they can't handle the pressure or heat.

Also, the guy 3D scanning my transmissions and spare engine met with me to show me the AWD trans overlaid with stock trans and engine. Looks like the axles exit in the same spot which is nice. Got some measurements, and working on having an adapter plate made. The clutch setup on this will be an entirely different can of worms. A custom flywheel/hub system that allows for the use of a pilot bearing will be necessary, and definite collaboration with a clutch company for the other components to make everything fit just right. We'll see if I can convince them to cooperate.

https://imgur.com/IKljylt.jpg

https://imgur.com/lP3BqBN.jpg

[dbral]

Car sounds good and breaks the wheels loose with almost no effort judging from the exhaust note lol.

Cool to see what 3d scanning can accomplish and help with the fabrication side of things. Surprised and relieved that the axle outputs line up.

Hope you get the clutch issue solved and get to have some fun with it soon.

Good to see aleromod is up and running again too

[leroBob]

All the of us going to act like the site wasn't down for a few weeks.......

[[ion] C2]

I got it fixed, the host did a PHP update and this site is running an ancient (2006) version of vBulletin which was not compatible

[leroBob]

What's the end game with the site?

[[ion] C2]

I might buy it and update it

[leroBob]

They should just gift it to you.
. Those three haven't even logged in since when? The value is less than a 2 liter of Pepsi.(Red dog job reference)

[[ion] C2]

Centerforce, as expected, is not very receptive to the idea of making a custom flywheel to work with this swap.

I reached out to RPS Carbon to see if they'll help. They are known for comfortable to operate clutches that hold power.

[Oldsnut]

They should just gift it to you.
. Those three haven't even logged in since when? The value is less than a 2 liter of Pepsi.(Red dog job reference)
Bite Me!! I am on here 2-3 times a day to delete spammers registering and see whats up. Everybody thinks they know everything.

[leroBob]

Bite Me!! I am on here 2-3 times a day to delete spammers registering and see whats up. Everybody thinks they know everything.

I stand corrected! I like the passion.

[[ion] C2]

Using advice from Tony @ UMS Tuning on how to reach out to a clutch company, I was able to get a reply from RPS, the company that makes super easy to drive, high torque capable carbon clutches. They supposedly are just as smooth to operate as a stock vehicle.

I love working with Tony and would be interested in helping you with your goals. A one-off custom RPS Super Lite 8" BC3 triple disc carbon clutch capable of 1,000 lbs-ft of torque to the tire is $8,000 and takes 3-4 months to make.

:dance1:

[Oldsnut]

C2;668090']Using advice from Tony @ UMS Tuning on how to reach out to a clutch company, I was able to get a reply from RPS, the company that makes super easy to drive, high torque capable carbon clutches. They supposedly are just as smooth to operate as a stock vehicle.



:dance1:
Your patience with this project is amazing!

[tw0123]

I love the passion and desire you put into the car Chris!!! Although I couldn't imagine dropping 8k just for a clutch!!! Can't wait to see the progress

[That01Olds]

Bite Me!! I am on here 2-3 times a day to delete spammers registering and see whats up. Everybody thinks they know everything.

I am deceased lol. :lol: I hope you're doing well Andy! LeroBob someone has to be logging in to keep the site running and going. Can't wait to see the finished result Chris!! I'm seeing less and less Alero's on the road these days, but I still think of the site when I do see them. A few low mileage and clean ones have come up as of late too! So they're still out there, which is always nice to see! Cheers!

[[ion] C2]

Finally got the car back from the transmission shop after 2 months.

Clutch Masters was taking too long and being unresponsive and difficult to communicate with, so I took a new OEM style bearing and removed the plastic portion and had a -3 AN fitting welded to it, making my own plastic-less bearing setup. After bringing the part to them last Monday and expressing that I will pay more to expedite this as it's been sitting at their shop for 1.5 months, I returned on Tuesday to find out they haven't touched it and no one wants to work on it, so maybe another week and a half and they'll call me.

However, they did the remove and reinstall today and now I have it back. Unfortunately they touched a bunch of stuff doing it. Gotta get another alignment because the steering wheel is turned terribly to go straight. A clamp on the turbo to charge pipe coupler was completely off so massive boost leak. They left their custom engine hoist hook attached using one of my cam tower bolts. And other minor things. Hate to have it in various shops so damn often.

I just want to drive it.

https://i.imgur.com/TnbPxyF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/O41Ny1Q.jpg

[[ion] C2]

Had some family in town and took one person for a ride to the restaurant we were going to about 20 miles away, and noticed the car kept essentially acting like it wanted to kill us lol. Would push you left and right at random like a strong wind, apart from torque steer.

Control arm was loose. Easy fix and now she's nice and tight.

I've been pondering the AWD conversion. It would be very easy to have RPS make a carbon clutch for the existing transmission and just run it like that... do some custom suspension, interior, paint on the new chassis and call it good.

AWD is going to be a major money pit, and now that I'm starting to send money over for the $8,000 clutch and looking at the $20k in known parts, plus all the other stuff, I'm hesitating...

$20k of stuff:
- AKDBuilt RT4WD Billet Viscous Coupler
- gearDriven Honda AWD K-Series PPG SYNCHRO GEARBOX Manual Transmission with Quaife LSD
- Drag Cartel AWD K-Series transfer case & gear set
- Oldschool Capital OEM rebuilt Civic Wagon rear differential
- K-Tuned TSX shifter KTD-TSX-AC2 and cables

$8k:
- RPS triple disc carbon clutch with flywheel pilot bearing accommodation

unknown cost:
- engine/transmission adapter flange (need to design and have machined)
- custom transmission mounts
- custom center driveshafts
- custom rear subframe
- custom front CV axles
- custom rear CV axles
- custom rear control arms or trailing/lateral link setup
- rear hubs (undecided from which vehicle, GM Epsilon?)
- custom adjustable coilovers
- fuel tank/fuel cell as OEM tank will be in the way
- revised exhaust routing


It will probably cost $40-50k in the end, at the low end, and I'll have a very custom setup that may be tricky to maintain.

Or I could spend $5-8k on a smooth clutch and deal with having no traction at high throttle at low speeds... there are a lot of fast FWD cars out there... I do love the idea of being able to go from 0-60 with traction, and reduced torque steer, and overall safer stability, but man, it's a cost. I have so many projects. I'm $70k in on my truck (including $12k purchase price). I have a $30k UTV. I'm building an addition on the house. I just got into RC car racing (which is cheap comparatively). It never "made sense" to modify this car, but I like upgrading things and seeing the fruits of my labor. I've been at the point where I want to "finish" it, have it be clean and complete, and easy to drive.

The main thing is my fabricator has been very uncommunicative, and he's expensive. It's supposed to be cheap, fast, good, pick 3, but with him I think it's just going to be good, expensive, and slow. It's been 3 months since I dropped the other chassis off for fabricating the half cage and fender bars, but I haven't heard a peep. Texted him the other day, no response. I would need to rely on him for all the custom fabrication, and I hate to think how long that will take, and how pricey it will be.

Just trying to be realistic. Financially I keep falling into the rut of credit cards to get what I want, then paying things off when I get a nice chunk of change from the business, and having a little extra in cash leftover. To do AWD and quickly, it will require going into credit debt again, and I still have a huge mortgage and some student loans. I just need to confirm what I want.

Why do I want to make it AWD?

1. It would be able to accelerate fast at lower speeds without losing traction.
2. It would be safer in handling (arguable, FWD is pretty forgiving overall, and if you're heading into a turn, you aren't on the power anyway)
3. It's unique and cool.

Are those reasons enough to spend $50k?

I'm starting to think not...

If I had $500k sitting around with my house paid off? Yeah, why not. But when I'm in an industry with a risky product and an uncertain future, I think it's smarter to keep things simpler. I was even thinking of selling the Can-Am and just adding fancy suspension to my truck so it's more capable/comfortable off road. Seems smarter than having so many vehicles.

Sorry for the long post, rambling about my thoughts.

[dbral]

Able to understand what you are thinking and would probably hold off on the AWD too. That swap would make it a very fun and unique car.....but it already is the way you have it now.

It would be very easy to have RPS make a carbon clutch for the existing transmission and just run it like that... do some custom suspension, interior, paint on the new chassis and call it good.


Amen....and enjoy the he!! out of it.

[[ion] C2]

It's funny, on the Facebook group, everyone voted 50/50 on going AWD. Easy to tell someone to spend money because it's a cool result, but I don't think they actually considered cost/benefit.

I sold the AWD trans today, and spoke with RPS who is happy that they can much more easily make a carbon triple disc clutch. This will also benefit anyone with the Getrag F23 because it will exist, although, expensive.

When I have my custom suspension made, it will also be available to anyone who wants it, and should be more reasonable. Properly designed adjustable coilovers for the Alero, finally!

I'm going to make the car the best it can be in FWD configuration and enjoy it. I've modified this car since 2006, always adding to my list of upgrades. It's time to be smart and focus my efforts on what will bring the maximum enjoyment.

[dbral]

Looking forward to the suspension/clutch details and results. Awesome that what you are developing will be available for others as well.

Hoping for some track day stories/vids. in the future. An Alero that can compete with modern cars would be fun to watch.

Yeah man, button it up and and just enjoy it. Wow, you have been at it for almost 20 years now!

[[ion] C2]

Texted the fabricator over a week ago asking how the fender bars and cage are going. No response.

Flew my drone over to see if anything's been done to the car. Looks like the interior is taken apart and the fenders are off, but no fabrication yet.

3 months it's been there.

[dbral]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR>>>> That sounds awfully familiar..... The only advice i have is to keep your cool, but if you don't, i completely understand and would not blame you. Keeping my fingers crossed bud

[[ion] C2]

I nudged him again and he replied with little tidbits about how space is limited to bend the cage up but it will be happening soon, and he's getting the plates for mounting to the chassis today.

Meanwhile I decided to drive my car around for my errands 35 miles away since I hadn't driven it in a few weeks, runs great, but then the MAP sensor died while I was coasting on an offramp. Stranded in the right lane of the exit ramp right at the intersection with my hazards on, yet people keep flying up nearly hitting me. One guy smoked his tires after I laid on the horn when I noticed he didn't seem to be stopping AT ALL as he came zipping up to my ass. Don't know how he missed. I've been in a few crashes and I thought for sure he was gonna contact.

Luckily someone was able to help push me out of the killzone to this spot, where it got towed safely to the shop and fixed almost immediately.

https://i.imgur.com/hH9fRmF.png

[dbral]

Happy you are safe. Was involved in an accident a few weeks ago with similar results as far as the after-accident traffic was concerned. People are in a hurry these day it seems.

Good that shop fixed it quickly this time. Hoping for better news with the rest of the project.

[[ion] C2]

Drives great aside from me stalling it taking off lol: https://youtu.be/aHdRGi9K5Ls

[[ion] C2]

Fabricator says he intends to have everything wrapped up within 2 weeks.

https://i.imgur.com/8fQDLCh.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/3EIEaP4.jpeg

[dbral]

Some serious under the radar reinforcement going on right there. Curious to see how this ends up.

[[ion] C2]

Ayyy it's done. Gonna pick it up later today.

Next up, interior work, paint, suspension.

https://i.imgur.com/69Zcq5P.jpeg

[[ion] C2]

Figured out why my headlights would sometimes not all come on (3 out of 4 most of the time). The grounds were loose as hell (like 1/4 to 1/2 inch gap between screw head and metal. Ring terminals just flopping around.

Of course, noticed after I commissioned a set of LED headlights and was in the process of installing them. Hopefully my LED ones (only 2 projectors on at a time) are similar in performance. I hate to downgrade, as I thought he was making 4 on simultaneously again. But LED turn on more reliably and you can flicker/flash them on and off without worry, where HIDs shouldn't be turned off and on quickly.

[[ion] C2]

woo, $10k quote for paint, and that's not even including removing the windows

sigh. I should use the guy, because he's legit and super detailed. Just painful knowing I could probably pay Maaco $5k and get them to do a solid job lol. The paint job I had done in 2013 by the guy with his home-booth came out well, apart from the rust by the gas cap, it's held together great the last 11 years. I forgot what I paid for that, but I feel like it was between 3-4k, which is pretty low for the amount of prep work they did welding panels in, fixing a bunch of dents, etc.

I also found all the window trim for a 2-door except 22682290. Bought one on eBay for $100 and then they refunded it after realizing they don't actually have it. No dealers in the country have any old stock. Edit: The eBay seller's shipment came through and I received it. Neat.

22701122 front right (replaces 22615726, 22632170)
22701123 front left (replaces 22615727, 22632171)
22682289 front left bottom (replaces 22614297, 22633017)
22682290 front right bottom (replaces 22614296, 22633016)

22615167 left rear window with trim
22615166 right rear window with trim

The quarter windows Safelite apparently has - they'll install them, they won't sell them to me alone, so far. Maybe if I go in person on the day they're scheduled to install I can negotiate. I got a glass guy trying to find the source they have. So far he can only find the LH rear quarter window. Hopefully he can find the right side as well. If I can find the 22682290 I'll have all new fresh trim...

[[ion] C2]

new LED headlights not bad, only 2 projectors. High beams are wimpy though, and only the LH one turns on for high.

https://i.imgur.com/qoWJyE5.png

[dbral]

Things are moving along for you finally. What are your plans for finishing the interior with the new bracing installed now? Full race mode strip-out/custom dash or stock-ish with carpet? That cage looks ready for a harness tie in point or two. Really hoping for what i'm thinking you are up to lol.

[[ion] C2]

Just new carpet, starlight headliner, re-wrapped dash, door panels, rear quarter panels with alcantara-like material. Custom subwoofer panel/back seat area to retain functionality of some storage like wife's purse/bags etc. Sound deadening throughout.

Goal with this car was always to make it comfortable and high performance.

[[ion] C2]

Aaaand the turbo manifold cracked again. I don't even drive this that much lol.

It's time to build a bracket to hold the turbo to the engine, and then use slip joints on the runners. It's just too much weight hanging off the runners, paired with my jerky clutch.

They kept telling me a bracket would cause cracking, but ya know what, it's already cracking, so why not support the turbo weight and make the runners have a little flex/expansion in them. I saved this image from a long time ago, this is what I would do.

https://i.imgur.com/XVsnIQT.jpeg

[[ion] C2]

Runner 2 cracked completely apart today before driving it to the fabricator. Sounds like an old tractor, and it definitely is affecting the rest of the engine's performance. Probably fouling out my plugs.

This fabricator (same one as my cage/fender bars) doesn't want to make a new turbo manifold (and if he did, I'm sure it cost a million dollars) so I'll have to tow it to the next place to have a thicker-wall manifold made. Then we should be good to daily it for once.

Still waiting to hear from the painter as to how the schedule looks. I hate waiting.

Plan is:

1. Paint cage and fender bracing.
2. Drop off car for interior work.
3. Paint exterior and replace trim/windows (pull the ones from my main Alero as they are in good condition and tinted already).
4. Swap everything over and install new RPS clutch, get A/C back operational, couple other tidying up items. Powder coat subframes and parts like the trailing arms/lateral links.
5. Get some custom coilovers made.

[[ion] C2]

https://i.imgur.com/VIukuQc.png

https://i.imgur.com/J5QSmWd.png

[tw0123]

Do you still use the strut tower bars? It just hit me you might have a better chance at a nice brace for the turbo off of the strut tower bar if it'll still fit in there with what govee got going on...

[[ion] C2]

no front strut bar anymore, the fender bracing should do a good job keeping the front end from flexing too much. the engine isn't stationary so a strut bar wouldn't be a good support for the turbo, has to be mounted to the engine in some way

since runner 3 cracked after 600 miles of use, and then runner 2 cracked 1,000 miles later, this brace might allow a repair on runner 2 to last... or it might not. maybe it was made with sub par materials, or in a way that concentrates the stress at that flange.

a 321 stainless manifold with thick walls is probably the ideal solution, and could prevent the need for a brace, but who knows. the main shop I work with thinks it might be harmonics leading to failures over material/thickness. my intake runners kept cracking at the welds near the flange as well, but it's braced now and welded thoroughly well...

we'll see in a couple weeks when i'm able to get into the shop

[[ion] C2]

So word on the street was 02-07 WRX coilovers fit the Alero without much modification. I bought front and rear strut assemblies for both to examine them. While they are extremely similar, the width difference between the knuckles is the biggest problem. Curious how those who used WRX coilovers resolved it.

https://i.imgur.com/Tlz0cAL.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/EIfOm0n.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/NhETpDx.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/ZZmZPnD.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/qiy8mYA.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/qfy9OfK.jpeg

[dbral]

It's wild that those struts are so similar. Wondering if they had the Alero knuckles machined down to accept the WRX width? What are your plans for caster/camber adjustment if you go this route? Digging the top-hung brace for the turbo. Worth a try for sure.

[[ion] C2]

Not sure, still badgering them for answers on how they made them fit.

This route gives you more adjustments, top plate does camber instead of at the knuckle. Caster IDK

[[ion] C2]

Interior's gonna be all done up in a suede like material. Shift boot, e-brake boot, entire dash, door cards, all interior plastic pieces. Rear seat area will be reconfigured to house my subwoofer and have an area to throw stuff. Headliner will be starlight.

Supposed to come in under $10k. Kinda nuts lol.

[dbral]

A custom and mint interior will be worth every penny you spend on it. The car will probably kinda smell like a new car too. Had to look up startlight headliner. Pretty trippy but cool. Are you going to arrange the stars in an olds logo pattern?

Any more info on the Subaru struts?

[[ion] C2]

Ha, no, it'll just be a nice dimmable random star pattern. I've always thought about getting one, just seems like a nice little icing on the cake. Can turn it off if it's annoying.

Feal Suspension says they are open to making a set of coilovers specific to the Alero, but they are busy. Maybe in 3-6 months, but it'll take 10 sets MOQ, and they're usually $1500. So if I can't get 10 people to buy, I'll have to fork over the $15k and try to sell them myself.

Hoping to have the paint and interior done in December, and then transfer everything over with the new clutch and finally be at a point where it's just final polishing touches here and there.

[dbral]

Great to hear that you can see the light at the end of the tunnel finally. Having new paint and interior is going to be awesome. Is your color choice finalized? Did you give up on the Subaru suspension?

[[ion] C2]

Great to hear that you can see the light at the end of the tunnel finally. Having new paint and interior is going to be awesome. Is your color choice finalized? Did you give up on the Subaru suspension?

Paint will be the same color, Ford DX Dark Blue Pearl Metallic.

Yeah my suspension is fine currently, and I don't understand how someone would modify Subaru coilovers to safely fit the N-Body. I'll just wait for properly designed adjustable coilovers.

In other news, the truck's 33 year old fan and shroud catastrophically disintegrated, damaging my new radiator, a hose, and denting the hood significantly.

https://i.imgur.com/kQh8sLR.png

[dbral]

Holy shit-balls man. You can't seem to catch a break...

[Oldsnut]

You are lucky that your head wasn't near that working in the engine bay!

[[ion] C2]

yeah for real lol the dashcam video is funny, huge bang, parts scattering all over behind me, i'm like wtf was that my fan?

[[ion] C2]

Final results:

3 out of 4 runners were cracked (one completely circumferential), re-welded and reinstalled
one coil and/or its wiring was acting up, so it was replacedI really want an all-new 321 stainless manifold made but the welder insists I should just run this one as-is for now. It's true that his last repair is the only runner that didn't crack... he knows how to do it right, so maybe it will last a bit. I just know most stainless steels aren't suitable for heat cycling like 321 is. So inevitably, it will fail eventually.


Drove all the way to the shop before I remembered I took the seats out for reupholstering. Can't drive it home with no seats. Sigh.

[[ion] C2]

Interior's coming along

https://i.imgur.com/imbHkUX.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/ZYyTbrQ.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/tSaCeuS.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/epXgIIn.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/ZElA7t5.jpeg

[dbral]

That is turning out really well. The seats are spot-on and look comfortable. Do those still use the stock seat frames? How did you make the headrest-delete seat backs and cushions?

[[ion] C2]

Those are my black/blue Recaro seats from the Evo 8, reupholstered. I just have thick steel plates on the bottom that bolt to the OEM sliders, and then bolt to the seat.

[tw0123]

Looks awesome Chris!! Can't wait to see the finished product all assembled in the car!!

[dbral]

Those are my black/blue Recaro seats from the Evo 8, reupholstered. I just have thick steel plates on the bottom that bolt to the OEM sliders, and then bolt to the seat.

Okay, got it now. Good job blending an OEM look into those seats.

[LRM88]

Good job blending an OEM look into those seats.
I'll second that. The Olds logo is a nice touch.

[[ion] C2]

Made an aluminum version of the OEM dipstick. Tired of replacing broken plastic.

https://i.imgur.com/jpPuBHR.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/2UI0AQ0.jpeg

[dbral]

Dang man, nice job. CNC? Is it all one piece?

[[ion] C2]

yup, just machined 6061

it will be hotter than the plastic one but at least it will finally be durable

i also need to make a custom dipstick tube setup that's more durable, as I've gone through a few. Anytime I or someone else works on things back there and have to move/remove the tube, it tends to snap off. It's a super weak design with a thin spot.

[dbral]

Hellz yeah, that is an intricate part. Guessing a 5 axis machine? The program for that had to be a mile long, lol. Would love to learn CNC. There is one at work but it is off limits to us peons, lol. We have a manual mill/lathe in our department that is fun to use and learn new things on though we just make basic things with them. Machining would make for a fun hobby too. Would be great to have a lathe/mill at home. Some of the older brand name used stuff is not too expensive.....

Check and see if you have a Metal Supermarket in your area (if you haven't already found out about them). Went to the one in our area for the first time myself today and the selection of tubing is impressive. They might have some ss that you could use to design a dipstick tube with maybe.

[Oldsnut]

C2;668219']yup, just machined 6061

it will be hotter than the plastic one but at least it will finally be durable

i also need to make a custom dipstick tube setup that's more durable, as I've gone through a few. Anytime I or someone else works on things back there and have to move/remove the tube, it tends to snap off. It's a super weak design with a thin spot.
You could Plasti Dip the round piece to avoid getting burned by the hot metal.

[[ion] C2]

Interior's still moving along... very expensive.

Paint wants to replace the windows with new ones, but the right rear quarter is unavailable anywhere. I want to remove and install the ones from my current running Alero into the new chassis, but they are worried about damaging the trim during removal. He's a high end glass guy but I might have to get an even better one to do what I want.

Truck is back after getting very expensive long travel. It's sweet.

https://i.imgur.com/nwCVGBq.jpeg

[homegrown]

Man, that is beautiful country.

[dbral]

Wow, nice pic. Looks like that suspension would soak up some bumps. Your truck needs throwback Ivan Stewart paintwork now.