3500 LX9 build with Milzy Motorsports parts

[dbral]

Putting together a MMS Stage 2 LX9 along with some additional parts.
-MMS fully optioned headers
-MMS stage 2 kit
-New 36lb/hr injectors
-Custom MMS pushrods
-New lifters with LS internals
-Internal crank trigger
-Double roller timing chain
-MMS milled timing cover for DRTC + powdercoat + clearance for head stud option
-MMS cold air intake
-MMS N-body swap kit
-MMS modified heater tube
-MMS EGR delete kit
-MMS billet trans mount
-MMS engine mount
-MMS Powdercoating and stainless bolt options
-MSD 8mm wires
-Spark plugs that are 2 heat ranges colder
-68mm MMS throttle body

[dbral]

Found a low mileage 3500 from a wrecked G6. Had the crankshaft sent out to have the snout machined for the DRTC gear. Crank appears to be one of the 7484 steel ones? Installed the 7X reluctor wheel at home. Instructions say that you have several seconds to line up your marks once the wheel is heated and is in position but our experience was roughly 2 seconds to work with. Next on the agenda is to clearance the block for the DRTC and verify proper preload once the lifters arrive.

[jawa]

What power numbers are you looking to get

[dbral]

MMS claims around 300 at the flywheel. Trying to get the car to run 14 seconds or so in the quarter mile.

[tw0123]

Do you have all the parts from him yet? There's some people waiting years for parts...

[dbral]

No, I do not have all of the parts yet. It is going on 3 years now.....

[[ion] C2]

✓ Early 2000s website
✓ No inventory or "in stock" indication on any product
✓ Needs a page like this: https://www.milzymotorsports.com/communication-guidelines
✓ Lawsuit http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91237

Tells me everything I need to know.

[dbral]

Clearanced for the double roller timing chain by removing some metal from the block near the main journal and screwing in the upper oil galley plugs a 1/4 turn or so and then lightly grinding the tops of the plugs as well. Thinking of not running the stock chain guide with this set-up as the double roller overhangs the guide quite a bit and the chain is surprisingly tight without it. Someone let me know if I missed clearancing anything or if I should run the stock guide.
Cleaned up the gasket surfaces, blew out all of the oil passages, and ran a tap through all of the threaded holes then drenched the block in oil and covered it back up. Will send the block out for hot tanking and cam bearings when the rest of the MMS parts arrive. Unable to find quality aftermarket pistons for the LX9 so I am planning on reusing the old ones with new rings and deglazing the cylinders. Would like to install new pistons but all that I can find are the cheap DNJ ones or the forged ones that may take years to make.

[dbral]

✓ Early 2000s website
✓ No inventory or "in stock" indication on any product
✓ Needs a page like this: https://www.milzymotorsports.com/com...ion-guidelines
✓ Lawsuit http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91237

Tells me everything I need to know.

If MMS was upfront and honest about their lead times during the ordering process I would not have a single complaint. To this day, I have no idea when the rest of the parts will arrive.
Communicated briefly with wottech a few months ago. They have a pretty interesting budget high compression build using our 3400 engine with pistons from the 3.4 DOHC and some other cool stuff. Probably could pull it off for 3k or so. Would be interesting to see if wottechs cheapo build would outrun an 8k MMS engine. They have all the stuff on the shelf too.....

[dbral]

To get the .055" clearance required for the chain it was necessary to clearance the block saddle roughly even with the bearing insert. Could not find any pics of this chain installed on a 3500. Pics of the 3400 installs looks like the block was not clearanced in this area at all...
Surprisingly, the MMS custom pushrods are quite a bit heavier than the stock ones. MMS pushrods weigh in at 44 grams for the long ones and 42 grams for the short ones. The stock pushrods are 39 grams for the long ones and 36 grams for the short ones. This is contrary to the MMS website's claim that they are lighter than stock and will help prevent float at high rpms. Understandably the custom pushrods are slightly longer in order to compensate for the changes made by the custom camshaft so that is going to add some weight however I would expect that the custom pushrods would still be lighter overall than stock to compensate for the extra length required not only because that is what is claimed but especially since this engine will see close to 7000 rpm. Still waiting for the upgraded MMS lifters to verify preload and correct pushrod length

[homegrown]

I don't think I'd fret about the pushrod weight.
At high rpm, valvetrain stability is just as (if not more) important than a reduction in weight. Besides, if you're going for lightweight, conventional wisdom says it's better to concentrate on the valve side of the rocker arm, not the pushrod side.
We do have a benefit of relatively short pushrods anyway, but I don't think 4 or 5 grams is going to make a difference. If I'm going for strength vs. weight in a pushrod, strength wins.

A decent read here - https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2019/12/why-size-and-strength-matters-with-pushrods/

[dbral]

To Homegrown, This is from the MMS website advertisement for their custom pushrods... "The weight savings these provide will decrease valvetrain weight and therefore decreasing valvetrain float and allow the engine to develop higher rpm's."
MMS is concerned about weight in this area and the custom pushrods that I received are in fact heavier than the stock ones. Thankful to have received the parts that I did so far. Still waiting for the other parts that I purchased about 3 years ago to arrive.

That is a good link with a lot of information and what I learned from that link is this... The long end of the rocker arm is on the valve stem side of the fulcrum. This gives the valve spring added leverage to push the combined mass of the rocker/pushrod/lifter back down during valve closing so extra weight on that side of things may not be too big of a deal.

[dbral]

Picked this car up to pass the time with some local motorsports fun until the rest of the parts arrive. Maybe we will try some autocrossing.

@homegrown, Thanks for putting my mind at ease about the pushrod weight. Any and all help will be appreciated from the forum if/when the rest of the parts arrive.

Looking back, I should have had a contract written up before those parts were ordered.
Still no word of a completion date........

[sleepyalero]

You’ll be waiting a little while unfortunately. Think he just takes on more work then he can handle.

I had him do a 6 speed manual swap to my alero years ago. Loved every second of it.

[homegrown]

Your mileage may vary, but my car with approximately this same setup and a manual transmission makes around about 275 hp at the flywheel.

[dbral]

Congrats homegrown! This is what mine currently makes.....lol

[homegrown]

Congrats homegrown! This is what mine currently makes.....lol
You'll get there.
It's a marathon, not a sprint.

[dbral]

Is anyone running cylinder heads that have the valve guides ported flush to the runner roofs? Should I have new full-length guides installed or leave it alone?

[homegrown]

I’d be inclined to leave it.

[dbral]

Thanks to homegrown, sleepyalero, and all of the others on the forums for the support with the years of (still) waiting and the information regarding the few parts that I did receive from MMS. For the uninitiated (Like myself) that are new to the n-body community, the whole process of trying to get the parts has been frustrating, unusual, and a bit bizarre so it is good to hear some words of encouragement from the people that have been through this process before.

Part of the reason that I decided to start this thread is that I am basically "Throwing in the towel" so to speak. If I get the parts...great. If I get refunded...okay. If it takes years longer to get the parts or I never receive the parts ....not so great. It is mainly on this last statement that I would like to keep all of you informed. Make no mistake, I have only myself to blame for throwing thousands of dollars at a 500 dollar car in the manner that I did so I do not have any ill will towards MMS in that regard at all. I guess I will deem my experience so far with this as the "Mystique" of dealing with said company and I will continue to report the facts of my current transaction, whether good or bad, as they unfold (If anyone cares to read them that is). Hopefully it will be helpful to the forum in some way.

[Shiwnath]

Wow thats really upsetting. If i was the owner of MMS i would rather go bankrupt than have people waiting 3 years for an damn engine to be built and installed. The parts that you ordered arent space aged rocket science.. other than the DRTC, its all pretty routine stuff. Rediculous.

I got my parts from WOT-Tech and Ben was good with getting my parts to me in Canada with no issues. He didnt do my build of course, but how long does it actually take to build and install an engine? 6 months would have been taking too long Jesus.

[dbral]

@Shinwath, Yeah this coming October will mark the 4th year of waiting but like I said before I have only myself to blame for the situation. Looking back on some old posts in another forum I was even warned about this possibility but still went through with it so yeah, my bad. Just trying to warn others and maybe post some good news in the end. Going to try and build and install this at home so I hope I don't screw that up if the parts do arrive.

At the time my parts were ordered, Wottech seemed to be doing a lot with BMWs so that was a big reason that I did not go with them in thinking that they would be going away from the 60 degree stuff in the future. Guess I made a bad decision about that too.

Good luck with your build! Give another update as to where you are at with it when you get a minute.

[dbral]

A few more of the MMS parts have arrived. Not too happy with the powder coated parts as the bottom (Internal engine side) of the lower intake was completely painted/coated and most of the gasket surfaces, threaded holes, and front crank seal bore are very rough/damaged from maybe not being protected during sand blasting I assume. Also, the MMS heater pipe came without a tang to secure it to the throttle body stud.

Still do not have enough parts to complete the engine build as the headers (Ordered Jan 5th 2018) and throttle body and swap kit (Ordered Dec 12th 2017) have not arrived along with some other parts that have not shown up as well.

In all fairness, if I already had the upgraded TB, headers, and ported intakes like most people do that have been involved in upgrading these vehicles for the last few decades then I would have had the Stage 2 engine completed a few years ago as the Stage 2 heads, cam, and related bits arrived Feb of 2019.

[3500Alero]

Sorry to hear how your transaction has gone with this build. But if you where only looking to run low 14's you could most likely get there wit a cammed 3500, headers, injectors, tune and a 5spd swap.

HeC ran 14.4 iirc @101 with a stock 3500, headers, TB, injectors, tune, and 5spd swap. The mph indicates that he is making around 250+ crank hp.

What is done to your car now? Stock 3400?

[dbral]

Sorry to hear how your transaction has gone with this build. But if you where only looking to run low 14's you could most likely get there wit a cammed 3500, headers, injectors, tune and a 5spd swap.

HeC ran 14.4 iirc @101 with a stock 3500, headers, TB, injectors, tune, and 5spd swap. The mph indicates that he is making around 250+ crank hp.


I would be happy with those numbers and it's nice to know that kind of performance is possible with those parts.

This Stage 2 3500 was originally intended for a Grand Am that my daughter and I kind of "fixed up" because she wanted to learn to drive. Since she was not of legal driving age, we would take the Grand Am to an abandoned parking lot and set up different courses so she could practice. This turned into lots of fun for us especially when we started timing how long it took for her to get thru the "course" and parallel park and whatnot, so the idea of taking the car to the track when she got older came from this. Our local track has a lot of people with older Mustang GTs and z28s so we were trying to get the Grand Am to have somewhat similar performance to those cars. So, yeah it would be good to run a low 14-something so it doesn't appear extremely slow and it would be even better if it would do so consistently as they have a fun bracket race competition there on Saturdays.

What is done to your car now? Stock 3400?

Yes, it is stock 3400

[dbral]

**UPDATE 01/31/2022** MMS sent out a "bulk" email to all customers mostly informing them of the fact that they need to continue to wait......time period not specified. @ 3500alero I am still waiting for the headers, tune, and TB among other items (a little over 3k worth of remaining stuff and about 4 years of waiting). If I had the items you mention I would be all for putting it together as is and seeing what it is capable of for sure.
My Grand Am buddy/driver (mentioned above) is now 18 and graduating HS this year and obviously now has very little interest in old cars/hanging around with dad (and I don't blame her lol!) but I think she will humor me and go to the track in the future and hopefully have some fun together like we used to.

[jawa]

you know the address to his shop, just road trip on over there

[dbral]

you know the address to his shop, just road trip on over there

lol! Address; Say one thing do another, USA
Doesn't work in mapquest unfortunately

Hopefully this gets resolved somehow. Could be worse. There are MMS customers that are in for way more than I am and have not gotten their items. Can't say I wasn't properly warned before my decision to purchase from MMS either. The folks over at Grandamowners tried their best to warn me years ago....

This situation is mostly my fault. I'll leave it at that.

[That01Olds]

lol! Address; Say one thing do another, USA
Doesn't work in mapquest unfortunately

Hopefully this gets resolved somehow. Could be worse. There are MMS customers that are in for way more than I am and have not gotten their items. Can't say I wasn't properly warned before my decision to purchase from MMS either. The folks over at Grandamowners tried their best to warn me years ago....

This situation is mostly my fault. I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry to hear that this has happened and you've had to wait so long to get your parts. Unfortunately like you've said this isn't the first time people have had issues with Milzy in regards to getting the parts they ordered. I think it's more of he just takes on too much work. More than he can handle and instead of turning down work to finish the stuff he has already committed to, he just keeps adding more to it and the wait times just keep getting longer and longer. I mean it's his choice to do things that way, but it's not the best way to do business imo. You just keep peeving people off and it's not the way to get return customers either.

I sincerely hope that you get your parts sooner rather than later and I can only hope that one day Milzy will either change his tune or have enough people to be able to churn out what he has already committed to. I get that the pandemic has made things hard, but people shouldn't have to wait years to receive the parts they ordered or paid for with no end timeline in sight and a spotty line of communication at best. Sorry again man.

[dbral]

@ that01olds thanks for the kind words and support...

I was okay with the waiting years over the promised lead time at first because the MMS sales pitch preaches perfection and high quality parts. Sure, take a few extra years to get the best stuff and take your time making it. Not going to complain about that (Nor would anyone for that matter.) However, the MMS parts delivered in August (4 years later BTW) were of poor quality / amateurish at best. Honestly, my daughter and I and the local machine shop could have done a better job with the powdercoat, milling, and cleaning (and actually finishing the parts)......and had fun in the process as well.

This was supposed to be a matched / bolt together / plug and play/ go racing Stage 2 "kit" that we could put together rather quickly in our backyard, as we did not have a shop at that time, and go have some fun at the track.

MMS originally stated 2 months lead time for the headers and 6 months for the rest before purchase.......

[That01Olds]

@ that01olds thanks for the kind words and support...

I was okay with the waiting years over the promised lead time at first because the MMS sales pitch preaches perfection and high quality parts. Sure, take a few extra years to get the best stuff and take your time making it. Not going to complain about that (Nor would anyone for that matter.) However, the MMS parts delivered in August (4 years later BTW) were of poor quality / amateurish at best. Honestly, my daughter and I and the local machine shop could have done a better job with the powdercoat, milling, and cleaning (and actually finishing the parts)......and had fun in the process as well.

This was supposed to be a matched / bolt together / plug and play/ go racing Stage 2 "kit" that we could put together rather quickly in our backyard, as we did not have a shop at that time, and go have some fun at the track.

MMS originally stated 2 months lead time for the headers and 6 months for the rest before purchase.......

Of course! You're not the first one I've heard of having issues with them so it's disheartening to see that nothing has changed and another person has fallen victim as a result. Yeah the fact that you waited 4 years for parts that you were originally told 2-6 months is just not cool at all. Especially when they're showing up with quality that is subpar from what you were promised or told that you would receive. It also sucks that you've lost quality time with the person that was going to be doing this build with you and that it seems like they've lost interest at least partially as a result.

I hate to say it, but it doesn't seem like you're getting much of anywhere with them. Maybe it's time to see what avenues of approach you can take to get some of your money back for the parts that haven't been delivered yet or file a claim with the BBB or something along those lines. To me these are just unacceptable terms to ask customers to abide by. Especially when you're paying for the product beforehand. That's why I am always a little skeptical when I have to pay before the product is finished because then the person has my money, but no longer has any incentive to finish the work I ordered or in the timeline I ordered it. It's just a very shitty situation and again I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I hope something good eventually comes of it and please keep us posted.

[dbral]

@that01olds that pretty much sums up the situation at this point for myself and other "customers" of MMS.

Because of my stupidity (AKA trusting in what MMS promises/length of time/etc...) the BBB and other avenues like that probably will not help protect me from myself....and that is the beauty of the MMS "business model".....for MMS....not the customers.

Moving forward, I am going to complete this project with or without MMS.
Spoke with Ben of WOTECH a while back. They have some of the parts I need and would be willing to do a contract/part payment or whatever it takes to make their customer feel comfortable with purchasing custom parts.
Been dealing with Hawks Motorsports for our Firebird project parts. (AWESOME PLACE BTW!!!) Spoke with them about this FWD project and they have the capability to dyno tune it.
Might goof around with the G6 exhaust and see if I can make it work as I have an extra subframe to hack up.

Ultimately, would like to dyno test the setup withhout the MMS headers / TB / Tune and then assuming the MMS stuff arrives, bolt that on and go back to the dyno and see if it is worth $7600 and 4-5-6-7? years of waiting. Judging by what others have experienced, I suspect that the MMS stage 2 will run like sh!t out of the box (or not at all) and is not plug and play in any way unless you have a dyno and tuning software in your garage lol. Hopefully I get proved wrong.

[dbral]

Here is a good read for anyone still thinking about dealing with MMS. This link is sort of hidden in the "policies page" and is a relatively new addition to the MMS website. https://www.milzymotorsports.com/lead-times-and-updates/
April 26, 2021 to be exact.

[That01Olds]

@that01olds that pretty much sums up the situation at this point for myself and other "customers" of MMS.

Because of my stupidity (AKA trusting in what MMS promises/length of time/etc...) the BBB and other avenues like that probably will not help protect me from myself....and that is the beauty of the MMS "business model".....for MMS....not the customers.

Moving forward, I am going to complete this project with or without MMS.
Spoke with Ben of WOTECH a while back. They have some of the parts I need and would be willing to do a contract/part payment or whatever it takes to make their customer feel comfortable with purchasing custom parts.
Been dealing with Hawks Motorsports for our Firebird project parts. (AWESOME PLACE BTW!!!) Spoke with them about this FWD project and they have the capability to dyno tune it.
Might goof around with the G6 exhaust and see if I can make it work as I have an extra subframe to hack up.

Ultimately, would like to dyno test the setup withhout the MMS headers / TB / Tune and then assuming the MMS stuff arrives, bolt that on and go back to the dyno and see if it is worth $7600 and 4-5-6-7? years of waiting. Judging by what others have experienced, I suspect that the MMS stage 2 will run like sh!t out of the box (or not at all) and is not plug and play in any way unless you have a dyno and tuning software in your garage lol. Hopefully I get proved wrong.

Yeah, it's just not cool and I read the link you posted and he's way past the lead times that he had pointed out. Custom order or not and did you happen to pay with either PayPal or a credit card? The majority of purchases using either of those these days is usually covered. Especially if you have waited years for products you have never received and also hardly gotten any updates on where they currently stand on being finished and sent out.

Nice and yeah Ben at WOT-Tech will take care of you if you end up using him. I've heard good things. He may have branched out to other cars now too, but he's still a good one to use when it comes to builds for this platform and the fact that he's willing to work with you on the payment thing especially given what you have just gone through with Milzy speaks bounds to me about who is he and how he chooses to run his business. Heck yeah that's awesome!!! Having a place to be able to dyno is always a cool thing too!

Makes sense and yeah that's a lot of money to drop on something and wait that long for it. Smh and his latest policy is basically just a way to cover his own ass and not have to deal with things or customers if he doesn't want to is what it sounds like to me. Not a very good approach imo, but again its his business soooo. I hope you get proved wrong too when/if all the stuff you ordered shows up. Like I said hopefully you hear/get something sooner than later. I'd be blowing up his phone/email everyday at this point if it were me or even better I'd just drive up to his shop. It's just not right to do business this way.

[dbral]

@ that01olds thanks for your concern and advice.

Well, I paid with credit card and paypal. I would have to talk with them both and see what they say about this. I had to personally contact paypal at one point years ago in order to get them to release funds to MMS. I still have the message from MMS on 4/20/18. MMS wrote "Thanks for taking care of that with paypal" That I had to do that with paypal should have been a big warning sign....not sure what rights I gave up in doing that. MMS assured me that "I will get my parts" lol

One way or another this will work out.....

[dbral]

Double post

[dbral]

www.milzymotorsports.com/lead-times-and-updates/

Reading back over this link from MMS.....a few thoughts come to mind

Does MMS realize how fortunate they are to have literally thousands of customers and potential customers (10/21/20 MMS was "3000" emails behind) with so much interest in their products especially in this economy and especially with such a small niche? That business should be a gold mine..... I work for one of the largest automotive suppliers in the world and I can tell you that we were and still are going thru some bad times.

This really is not about the money for me right now although that may change in the future. Hopefully, I can post back some good news and progress soon and hopefully, being able to show my mistakes on this forum helps someone to better protect themselves in situations like this. Thanks for the support

[dbral]

Progress!!!! First of the Wottech parts arrived! 65mm TB adapter
Ordered 3/4/2022-----Arrived 3/10/2022
Picked up an LX5 throttle body and bracket from local LKQ last Friday.

Milzy 68mm TB Ordered 12/12/2017----Has not arrived/no updates. You have to send in a 3400 TB for MMS to switch over the throttle/cruise cam to the new part. Picked one up from the junkyard and sent it some years ago lol.

Milzy 68mm TB total incl. core $299.50 and over 4yrs later has still not arrived

Wottech 65mm TB adapter total including LKQ TB $95.00 arrived in 1 week

So is a 3mm increase in TB bore diameter worth an extra $200 and 4-5-6-7? years of waiting? Until I get the MMS part and dyno it I can't be sure but I'm betting the answer is no.

Very sorry for not listening to you all years ago. Should have went with Wottech in the beginning....just another mistake in a long list of them

[LRM88]

Glad to see your project is back on track.
Looking forward to updates.

[dbral]

Glad to see your project is back on track.
Looking forward to updates.

Thanks! Can't wait to start putting it back together!

[dbral]

The Wottech PCM arrived today!! Ordered 3/4/2022 arrived 3/18/2022 and would have arrived sooner but I made a mistake and forgot to enter the correct injector info so they rewrote the tune for me, no charge/no complaints. This tune is a guess on my part. Hopefully it is close enough to get it up and running and do some mild break-in before the dyno.....if not I have AAA on it. Maybe they will tow it there for me lol.

Here is a comparison with MMS;

Milzy Stage 2 computer $199
ordered 02/28/2018.....have been asking MMS to kindly send it since 01/08/2022 with no replies or updates on the PCM...still has not arrived

Wottech performance computer $199
ordered 03/04/2022 arrived 03/18/2022 with excellent communications and helpful service to correct a mistake I made when ordering the computer

This project is starting to come together now!!! Thanks Wottech

[3500Alero]

Good to hear that you are getting some performance parts!

Just read the link you posted :mad: why is he even offering items for sale if he doesn't have them? Any large builds I could see a small percentage down up front but not the full amount. I understand he has to buy the stuff too but he should have a budget for this type of stuff.

Any way, just get out to the track with your new parts and have fun, then improve it from there! If you have access to a welder you could build your own set of headers for fairly low cost using a cheap/used set of v8 headers for the bends, a pair of 3400 flanges and some 3 to 1 collectors. I did this myself for my 3100 cavalier years ago!

Also if there is any parts your looking for let me know and I will see what I have or I can find!

[dbral]

Good to hear that you are getting some performance parts!
Thank you!
Just read the link you posted why is he even offering items for sale if he doesn't have them? Any large builds I could see a small percentage down up front but not the full amount. I understand he has to buy the stuff too but he should have a budget for this type of stuff.
Good question and excellent points....
Any way, just get out to the track with your new parts and have fun, then improve it from there! If you have access to a welder you could build your own set of headers for fairly low cost using a cheap/used set of v8 headers for the bends, a pair of 3400 flanges and some 3 to 1 collectors. I did this myself for my 3100 cavalier years ago!
Great idea with the headers right there and hopefully it gets up and goes well enough to have some fun with it at the track! Looking forward to it for sure!!
Also if there is any parts your looking for let me know and I will see what I have or I can find!
Thanks for the kind offer!!! I think there is enough parts collected now to get it going...it is just now mostly a matter of me getting some extra time to work on it lol!

[dbral]

Not much progress with the remaining MMS parts. Spotty communications (at best) that indicate they have an old/new/imaginary set of headers that they are coating for me along with "some" (not all lol) of the other parts ordered way back when. The company is unwilling to verify fitment of headers (Like they said they would when ordered.) or has yet to send pics of said parts so who knows. Was going to drive up there with the hopes of installing the parts on site..... MMS claims to have a cut-away N body to verify fitment......AND the Air Force Museum is located in Dayton so no matter what the trip would not be a total loss but no pics or proof of parts as of yet so i am having second thoughts.

Hoping to see the parts by the end of the month.

Oh, they are also unwilling to repair/refinish/refund or otherwise make at least somewhat okay their terrible powdercoating.

Sorry about the multi-year rant. Hopefully the next post concerning MMS parts will be of progress.

[dbral]

Meh, could always have a make milzy motorsports great again n-body meet/cruise-in lol. Hope it works out for all of us somehow.

[sleepyalero]

Milzy does have a mock up motor/front end, i have been in his shop a few times.

[dbral]

Milzy does have a mock up motor/front end, i have been in his shop a few times.

Good to hear. Hopefully it gets put to good use for all of the customers still waiting for headers / parts.

In my case, unlike what was promised at time of purchase, MMS requests that i now sign a waiver so that MMS would not be held liable for any damages incurring from a fitment check of the headers as they were "sent to the coaters" before a fitment check was performed. The headers still have not arrived. Ordered Jan. 2018

Still no updates or pics from MMS of the TCE 68mm throttle body i ordered in Dec. 2017. The information that i get from TCE is that they no longer produce these due to lack of interest. Hopefully just miscommunication......

Well, (And this is the main reason for this thread.) please take a lesson from my stupidity and protect your money. I know that it is hard not to pull the trigger and buy things for an awesome hobby (esp. if your kid is interested too) but one way i could have prevented this situation is to have taken a breath, thought about it for a minute, and had a contract drawn up to keep the ball in my court. The terms could always be redrawn if problems should arise. (Wottech, btw is completely fine with this arrangement.) Custom parts take time and problems are expected...but 5 years of waiting? (And i hope that there are not any more "MMS satisfied customers" waiting longer than this, however i did notice a recent MMS BBB complaint from yet another "MMS Satisfied Customer" from my home state of South Carolina so maybe?) Actually, the best solution might be to build the parts yourself if you have the time and space....and tools. Could buy one heck of a TIG welder for what money i am still owed from MMS.

Hope it works out for all of us somehow

[sleepyalero]

Good to hear. Hopefully it gets put to good use for all of the customers still waiting for headers / parts.

In my case, unlike what was promised at time of purchase, MMS requests that i now sign a waiver so that MMS would not be held liable for any damages incurring from a fitment check of the headers as they were "sent to the coaters" before a fitment check was performed. The headers still have not arrived. Ordered Jan. 2018

Still no updates or pics from MMS of the TCE 68mm throttle body i ordered in Dec. 2017. The information that i get from TCE is that they no longer produce these due to lack of interest. Hopefully just miscommunication......

Well, (And this is the main reason for this thread.) please take a lesson from my stupidity and protect your money. I know that it is hard not to pull the trigger and buy things for an awesome hobby (esp. if your kid is interested too) but one way i could have prevented this situation is to have taken a breath, thought about it for a minute, and had a contract drawn up to keep the ball in my court. The terms could always be redrawn if problems should arise. (Wottech, btw is completely fine with this arrangement.) Custom parts take time and problems are expected...but 5 years of waiting? (And i hope that there are not any more "MMS satisfied customers" waiting longer than this, however i did notice a recent MMS BBB complaint from yet another "MMS Satisfied Customer" from my home state of South Carolina so maybe?) Actually, the best solution might be to build the parts yourself if you have the time and space....and tools. Could buy one heck of a TIG welder for what money i am still owed from MMS.

Hope it works out for all of us somehow


You are very patient. Thats some crazy wait times. The TCE are not easy to obtain. usually made in small batches at a time. I had one myself on my 3400. It took awhile to get as it wasnt readily available.

I am well out of the Alero scene, as I sold mine years ago, but when i did have it. I was in touch quite often with Milzy, at the time. He was a great guy, a little slow and not very well at keeping customers up to date/communicating. But on the days i would be impatient i would give him no choice and just show up to the shop. In most cases he was very helpful with me, and ?had my back? even spoke about sponsors at one point and trying prototype parts. But after awhile it just seemed he took on way more then he could chew, couldnt keep employees in the shop to help him etc which created the down fall of MMS. Its very sad because he had the right mind set. Built crazy 3100/3400/3500/3800 cars (his monte 3800 turbo is sick) but he had the right idea. Unfortunately this market is a dying breed, and only a few OG?s care to dump big money into these cars. And thats hard to run a business off of.

But i wish you the best of luck, but it seems like your parts may never come about. :( (praying thats not your case)

[dbral]

You are very patient. Thats some crazy wait times. The TCE are not easy to obtain. usually made in small batches at a time. I had one myself on my 3400. It took awhile to get as it wasnt readily available.

I am well out of the Alero scene, as I sold mine years ago, but when i did have it. I was in touch quite often with Milzy, at the time. He was a great guy, a little slow and not very well at keeping customers up to date/communicating. But on the days i would be impatient i would give him no choice and just show up to the shop. In most cases he was very helpful with me, and ?had my back? even spoke about sponsors at one point and trying prototype parts. But after awhile it just seemed he took on way more then he could chew, couldnt keep employees in the shop to help him etc which created the down fall of MMS. Its very sad because he had the right mind set. Built crazy 3100/3400/3500/3800 cars (his monte 3800 turbo is sick) but he had the right idea. Unfortunately this market is a dying breed, and only a few OG?s care to dump big money into these cars. And thats hard to run a business off of.

But i wish you the best of luck, but it seems like your parts may never come about. (praying thats not your case)

Thanks for the support and my initial dealings with MMS were great also. Very much enjoyed talking with the owner but it got frustrating hearing "Yeah, your parts will be ready "next spring" or "next fall" or "next summer" etc... Anyway, you may be right. Maybe no one will receive their parts (or sub-par parts) as the original fabricator (Forcefab?) is gone. That was the real talent behind MMSs previously good reputation IMHO.

Sucks to hear about the TCE production picture. If they have not made a run in 5 years then they may be over and out.....but it does beg the question of why they are still listed for sale on the MMS website.

LOL, i'm not so much patient, mostly foolish, however it's not been a total loss waiting around. My kid and i did have a lot of fun with that old GA a few years back and we bought another car (with readily available parts lol) to goof around with so no regrets there. Also, it was awesome to find out that other people share the love for these old GM FWD cars too. I enjoyed reading about your car's evolution and the many others on here as well. Will always have a soft spot for these vehicles lol.

[dbral]

In the interest of trying to keep the issues between just MMS and the people that are still involved with the GM FWD scene, i think that sharing this email would be in everyones best interest. If i am wrong, please delete this or maybe instead, someone can kindly tell me and the rest of the current MMS customers what we should be doing differently. Also, it would be nice to get a response from the business in question as i see that they are a part of this forum.

To MMS,

Still no response, however that does not surprise me as this is not unusual. Send pictures of the parts from the list of parts that MMS claims to have ready please so this "transaction" can hopefully begin to be finalized. Did I not pay in full? Did I not go to bat for MMS with paypal? Did I not have to buy duplicate parts from your competitor because MMS still has not fulfilled their end of the bargain? Have I not been waiting 5 years? What did I fail to do on my end? Why does MMS still not send the parts? I know one thing that I did wrong, and that was trust what the owner of MMS told me when I ordered those parts. That is what MMS banks on, I believe, to take advantage of "interested and trusting customers".. My initial impression of MMS was that they shared the same passion for turning these old FWD cars into cool sleepers, but come to realize that MMS instead may only be passionate about taking advantage of the trusting people that actually still care about these vehicles. If you are going to respond back with the normal MMS 5 year old rhetoric of "its the holidays, and we are so busy shipping parts" or " too busy answering emails to get anything done" then I will save you the time and kindly ask that you do like the rest of us are forced to do this Christmas, and spend a few days with your family and then get back to work and get us our parts. Work some weekends too. The rest of us do. I remember your "Schedule Page" No weekend work for MMS. If MMS actually cared (and this was not a scam), then MMS would not stop until all was made right. Personally, I believe now that there is a good chance that MMS is not talented enough to come through anyway regardless of how much time is spent so maybe it does not matter. If this is the case, then do the right thing and refund me and the other customers as well. Pull the plug if you and your employees now lack the talent and brains to perform this kind of service. No shame in being honest. What has been going on for years at MMS appears to be a some type of scam..... But hopefully this is not the case. I read the Muransky vs. Miller case. Really MMS? That was shameful..But seen the pics of that build and noticed that the fab work was top notch. I wish that I could have the kind of talent the original MMS fabricator has and I bet you wish you could have that kind of talent as well. Good luck

Edit: In the interest of possibly helping MMS out with their "backlog" and so customers that have been waiting for years have an idea of what is going on, maybe MMS can share the contact information of their coaters, fabricators, and parts suppliers. A lot of what i am waiting for is most likely not produced in house so maybe others are in the same boat? Would be nice to know what our money is being spent on and it would give MMS a "break" from update reports.

Hopefully MMS comes thru for everyone involved

[dbral]

Update: MMS did recently respond and they finally did offer to repair their powder coating mistakes. A few years back, i offered MMS the option of no powdercoat and that they can keep the funds too....Just send my cores back ASAP. Wish they would have taken me up on that, but it was nice to hear that MMS admitted fault and they were willing to do good by their customer. So, thanks MMS, but i will fix them instead. Personally, i don't care what the part looks like, i just don't want paint inside my engine. There was no reason whatsoever to paint the underside of that lower intake.

It was nice to hear that MMS addressed the one minor concern that i have, however the major concern of still no parts after 5 years of waiting has not been addressed at all. Still no updates or pics. It looks a little more hopeful now, but we shall see....Maybe a late Christmas gift will come for all of us that have been waiting from MMS? Hoping for the best

[leroBob]

Well hopefully you get these parts back before this page shuts down lol.

[dbral]

Well hopefully you get these parts back before this page shuts down lol.

lol i hope this site does not ever shut down. As for the parts, well that may never happen....

[dbral]

Well, for what it's worth, here is the current situation. After waiting over 5 years for the parts, MMS now wants to "refund" me for the headers and will "send" the rest of the parts owed. Of course it is a totally open-ended offer from MMS where they are refusing to give dates/amounts/method of fund transfer etc...No surprises there. What is odd though is that they recently claimed that the headers were ready to ship and that my order status also shows "ready to ship" Even more odd is that they are offering a "refund" on a non-refundable part but refusing to refund me on refundable parts. Not sure what to make of all of that. The company is also refusing to state their reasoning behind why they broke our agreement terms or the whereabouts of the headers either so who knows.

Anyway, being that MMS has now defaulted on the terms of our 5+ year agreement, i said no to that "offer" and instead gave them 2 options. Refund in full on the remaining parts OR send me the rest of the parts so that i can do a dyno comparison. Would love to see if a cheepo budget build would outperform the MMS Stage2. The window of opportunity has passed for the father/daughter project so maybe the dyno idea would be a fun substitute?

Quite disappointed that MMS dropped the ball after 5+ years but we shall see...
Hopefully i am not being too unreasonable....

[tw0123]

You are not being unreasonable at all. I wouldn't settle for less than a full refund plus interest.

[dbral]

You are not being unreasonable at all. I wouldn't settle for less than a full refund plus interest.
i am hoping that is the case and the "plus interest" is a nice touch too.

Hoping this works out for me and others caught up in it too.

[dbral]

Maybe MMS will respond to this message as they are part of this forum or maybe this conversation will help others to make an informed decision before paying up front and ordering online as well. Protect your project and your money or this could be you.....

to Mike
Edit #7 of the same email of 2/13/2022. Your delayed responses allow me time to keep adding to the original text when something else comes to mind.

You are running out of time. You have not given any reason as to why you broke our agreement terms nor do you offer any acceptable compensation for failing to fulfill your terms. If you do not respond by the date that I gave then I have to assume that you and your company have, by default, negative intentions and will move forward with that in mind. This was supposed to be a fun build that my daughter and I could enjoy together but instead we have "this". Times up. I technically could argue quite successfully that I no longer need any of those parts, including the ones that have been sent. You have my current terms but those could change at any time.

MMS--My business is ran on my terms, not yours. We'll be doing the refund my way or not at all. I'm trying to refund you for the headers order now. If that's not good enough, then I guess we don't have to do a refund if that's how you want it. Take it or leave it."
---Well, that is not how I read your "refund offer" This is what you are actually trying to get by with and I quote...

MMS-"I will be mailing you a check as a refund for the order of the N-body headers and the associated parts on that order. I will not be charging you any restocking fee on this refund.

We will send you the remaining parts like the throttle body, pcm, etc"

--- That is not going to work. It is not fair to me because it is open ended, does not include dates or amounts, does not protect me from receiving a bad "check" and based on my 5 years of experience of dealing with MMS after paying 7600 upfront and still being owed thousands of dollars of goods and services, I would be foolish to accept that. My more than fair terms are stated in my last email. Take it or take it. You are the one who admitted that you could not come through and broke our agreement, not me. You have refused all of my more than fair past offers and ideas to help you fulfill your end of agreement YEARS ago, including a refund. I more than did my part and have waited 4 and a half years over promise time as well. Your turn. You are not the victim here. What would you do if the tables were turned and I was the cause of ruining your father/son project and I was treating you the way you are treating me? Either refund me per my terms, or send me the parts per my terms and ironically those are the same terms that we agreed upon over 5 years ago and the same agreement terms that you recently broke. Only difference is that I now added a completion date and a recourse for me if you fail to meet the date. You are getting a second chance to do the right thing and fulfill your obligation as per our agreement of over 5 years ago or you can refund me for what you still owe me. Take it or take it.

MMS---"it was a direct result of the customer trying to man-handle what is usually my job of picking out the correct parts, and because this was part of a lawsuit at the time....."
---Well, that right there tells me all I need to know. "Because it was part of a lawsuit at the time." How you managed to lose the trust of someone clearly willing to spend Mega Bucks on that build is something that I unfortunately understand all too well after dealing with you after 5 years myself. This is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable hobby, not some years long/say one thing do another/ frustrating/wish I never made the decision to deal with you mess that always seems to be the case when dealing with MMS for almost everyone. I really feel bad for that customer and others like him. Take a lesson from Wottech. I and many others love dealing with them. I look forward to dealing with Wottech and have fun doing so and I have always received my parts and received them quickly. Ironically, Wottech sent me, in a matter of days, the same parts that I have been waiting over 5 years for MMS to send. Possibly emulate their business model and maybe you can start to make a positive difference in MMS, your customers, and the N-body hobby as well. Just a suggestion.


Would love a chance to do the dyno comparison idea that I previously mentioned, but based on feedback from another stage 2 customer that you personally tuned, it would probably just keep stalling.... much like MMS. Oh, and It took that customer years to get their car back too. You are very inept at what you do. Just like me when I foolishly trusted what you said over 5 years ago. I am inept at not protecting myself from scams. It sucks to be inept. I can empathize with you on that.

MMS-"I mean I don't care really if you don't answer it for another year, I just find it kind of ironic."
-----I find it ironic that MMS is offering a refund on a non-refundable part and refusing to refund me on a refundable part.

Your competitor was able to provide me with some of the needed parts in days, the same parts that I have been waiting over 5 years for MMS to send. To be clear, I am not asking for a complete refund of 7600, just what MMS still owes me in parts. More than fair, especially considering the years of waiting, having to buy duplicate parts from your competitor, MMS ignoring the multiple, more than fair previous offers and opportunities to finish this build (and refund me as well btw), and obviously the main reason that this build was started in the first place. The "main reason" is well documented and public in case you forgot. I probably should be asking for a complete refund, but like I said before, I foolishly trusted what you told me over 5 years ago and did not protect myself. My 2 terms are clearly stated in my last email. Pick one please.

MMS- "There are so many things wrong with the things you say I don't know where to start. The only thing that cost more than $50k were the lawyers. His bill was $35k which never even was paid off. $5k was spent on a billet crankshaft we didn't need and I recommended against."
---- Post from MMS on 11/08/2017 "Anyways the total for all the parts and labor that we did is about $48,000." That is a quote from MMS directly. "About $48,000" is what MMS posted. That sounds like an estimation to me. So, between $46k and $51k maybe? As far as the time frame is concerned, according to the public record, MMS had the vehicle for 7 years. So after $50k, 7 years of waiting, AND a lawsuit, the customer got 370 unreliable whp from MMS. Pathetic. In my case it is over 5 years and $7600 for 0 whp. Pathetic again. There are so many things wrong with what you do (and say), I don't know where to start.

Come to think of it, this $50k build/lawsuit thing was going on during the time that I was ordering almost 8k of parts from you. The same parts that you now admit, after 5 years, that you either do not have or refuse to refund in full. The MMS lawsuit should have been disclosed to me at the time of purchase as well, especially since you admitted the profound effect that it had on your business as far as not fulfilling orders just like mine and others as well. MMS posts on 1/16/2020 "Why was MMS slow at developing parts and finishing projects" and gives the 50k build/lawsuit as the ONLY excuse.

MMS-This address I've been asking for, you sit here bitching about time over and over, but you realize I've been asking for the address for the better part of a year right? I mean I don't care really if you don't answer it for another year, I just find it kind of ironic.
---- Like your communications guidelines suggest, " please refrain from swearing." The information requested was sent 6 months ago to MMS btw.

You can refund me for the rest of the parts or you can send me the rest of the parts. The terms are in my last email. Carefully read and comply with those terms. Very simply stated and fair with more fairness shown towards the business than towards the customer in my opinion, especially considering the circumstances involved. If you disagree, kindly explain in detail.

Again, I am very disappointed that you dropped the ball after over 5 years of waiting. My headers were ready to ship by your own admission. My header order status shows awaiting shipment too.
On the bright side, your response times are improving. Not even close to on par with your competitor but an improvement nonetheless. Customers like me that have been waiting 5+ years for goods and services that were supposed to take "6 months" to complete do appreciate being considered somewhat of a priority, that is unless there are MMS customers waiting even longer than that. Hopefully you have a plan in place to turn your business around too. Would be a shame to have even less options for the n-body hobbyist, but since it appears that MMS is not capable of fulfilling paid-up-front orders over 5 years old, or even offering a simple refund on all of those parts either, then the n-body crowd would be better off without you now. MMS had a good reputation years ago. I believe now that MMS is a scam. You are not doing a very good job of proving me wrong so far...

[tw0123]

You are being far too kind towards him... I'd be demanding the full 7600 refund. You've waited 5+ years; the time has p passed for the dad/ daughter build as she has moved on... I've realized the timeline with kids is short enough... to be waiting on a joke like milzy is a shame... I'd be going for a full refund, no exceptions. Continue dealing with Ben at Wot-tech and finish the build that way.

[dbral]

All things considered, i am partly to blame here for ignoring good advice from you all and trusting in what was promised by the business. Hard to ask for a full refund at this point under those terms. Gonna see if they do right by me and others as well. The window of magic with your kids is way too short for sure but i think that we made the best of it though. Thanks for the support.

Yes, can personally verify that Wottech is the real deal and will be doing more business with them in the future as well.

[dbral]

Well, the BBB was kind enough to take on this case and at least make it public. Unfortunately, just tried to send my response to the business and it sent a blank page instead. No do-overs either. I emailed the BBB and let them know. Hopefully they will fix that. Fingers crossed, just can't seem to catch a break lol. Hope it works out ok for all of us "customers" somehow.

[dbral]

The BBB was very understanding and processed my response today. Hopefully something good happens for someone.

After 5+ years of waiting, here is my 2 cents for what it is worth; If you don't have the tools/time/know how/etc.. to make the parts yourself or if Wottech does not have the parts you need, maybe pick a Mustang or a Camaro to modify instead and for godsakes, do not ever pay for something up front.

[dbral]

The BBB did post some of our conversation (Went pretty much like all of the other customers did) and tried to help out even though this issue is well past the BBB 12 month maximum time frame rule. Have not heard back from the company nor have the parts arrived as of yet.

Best of luck everyone. Hopefully it works out for us all somehow. Here is how the conversation ended. I agreed to have Miltzy Motorsports send all of the owed parts. Guess we will see if MMS comes thru for one of us maybe. Not holding my breath though.

[dbral]

i posted this back in 03/2021
Part of the reason that I decided to start this thread is that I am basically "Throwing in the towel" so to speak. If I get the parts...great. If I get refunded...okay. If it takes years longer to get the parts or I never receive the parts ....not so great. It is mainly on this last statement that I would like to keep all of you informed. Make no mistake, I have only myself to blame for throwing thousands of dollars at a 500 dollar car in the manner that I did so I do not have any ill will towards MMS in that regard at all. I guess I will deem my experience so far with this as the "Mystique" of dealing with said company and I will continue to report the facts of my current transaction, whether good or bad, as they unfold (If anyone cares to read them that is). Hopefully it will be helpful to the forum in some way.

Still no response from the business or tracking numbers either. This situation is mostly my fault as i was way too trusting and kind for the first 3 or 4 years.
According to http://www.clerk.co.montgomery.oh.us/pro/ Milzy motorsport is currently dealing with yet another lawsuit from yet another customer for the same issue.

Asking for a full refund at this point. Gave MMS the same deal they gave me 5+ years ago. Pay me in full, upfront including shipping and then i will send the parts back.

[dbral]

Update 4/28/2023 Well, i think that is it folks. The company refuses to send all of the parts and refuses to refund me for all of the parts and does not respond to communications. Best of luck to all of those in similar situations and hopefully somebody finds this thread helpful.

From the MMS website; "These headers are considered a custom order, as they are built to order rather than being a stocked item. All custom orders are non-refundable....."
If milzy motorsports demands that customers adhere to their policy then customers also expect milzy motorsports to do the same, especially after waiting for many years....and being denied a refund years ago as well.

Posted by milzy motorsports 11/17/2017 grandamgt.com; "As I said, everyone gets their parts."
False statement.

[dbral]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qFUj68w2so

A new video has appeared made by yet another satisfied customer

Here is an email sent to me 2.5 years ago by the featured company....

I wish I had more time to spend on a reply for you. I understand your frustration, and acknowledge and appreciate the patience you've shown. I would love to give you concrete dates of completion, but that's just not how this stuff works. The headers project is not being farmed out, just the bending process, which technically was already being farmed out. Rather than buying pre-bent pieces in nominal bend angles, and then cutting them to size and welding them together, we are now moving forward to have the tubes one-piece mandrel bent, drastically reducing the necessary labor on our end, which Milzy Motorsports will still be doing, in fact during 2020, I have learned to TIG weld, so I will most likely be doing the bulk of the work on those and every other fabrication project here..

I will work on getting you the parts as I said on my last e-mail. Everything will be fine, and your father/daughter project will get done. Just have some faith.

Once again, appreciate your patience. If you become available for a phone conversation some time, let me know, and I can reach out.

lol "Voicemail full" and blah blah blah.... i'm beating a dead horse here, but just to be fair, the "company" contacted me and wants me to agree to their terms of reimbursing me for the headers and sending me the rest of the parts. So, i said sure, reimburse me for not being able to do what you promised almost 6 years ago, and send me the rest. Or, you can have an additional 6 months to complete the headers if you would like. That was around 2 months ago and still nothing but we shall see.

Dear Potential Customers, there is enough info out there on this "business" currently that it is now YOUR fault if you choose to roll the dice. 2 words...due diligence. i'm not saying to not deal with said company. What i'm saying instead is to write up a contract...a very good contract that is, before you do any dealings and make it worth your while....ask the "company" to deduct your legal fees for drawing up said contract from the purchase price....or something along those lines anyway. Protect yourself, please.

In short, don't be stupid and foolish like me.

i'll let the forum know if milty motors actually comes thru.....lol

Oh, and one more thing. Maybe all of us milzty motor "customers" can get together and do a "Group Buy" on what it is we can do together to rectify our situations. Need a minimum of 6 to move forward lol. PM me please

[[ion] C2]

MMS is quite the terribly operated business. I'm so glad I had Ron Davis Racing Products make my radiator instead of waiting on this joker to have an inferior design (never) made.

By your fourth lawsuit as a very small business, it's time to make a change.

[dbral]

Went to the Ron Davis site and was impressed. First i have heard of them. Nice to actually have an option like this.

So fortunate i did not order that rad. from milzy motors.

[[ion] C2]

Yeah I have the only one at the moment. It's amazing. I wanted a radiator that would be able to handle anything I throw at it. Took measurements and pictures, gave them a stock radiator for reference, and now I have the best one there is and learned a lot about the cooling system talking to Ron himself.

[dbral]

Would love to have one of those. The cooling system seems like a such weak area for these cars. Our v6 car runs a line or two above 210 on the gauge during hot weather....doesn't matter if it is going 70mph down the highway or sitting in traffic. Your upgraded radiator is worth every penny esp. when modifications have been done.

[homegrown]

I can't tell you how sick this whole thing makes me. Now we know why aftermarket performance shops have such a bad rep - it's because of things like this. I wish I could help you out, but I doubt I'd be able to get any movement for you.

[dbral]

I can't tell you how sick this whole thing makes me. Now we know why aftermarket performance shops have such a bad rep - it's because of things like this. I wish I could help you out, but I doubt I'd be able to get any movement for you.

Thanks for the concern and yeah, there is nothing that anyone can do to help out those in this situation, esp. because it technically is the customers fault too for being trusting/foolish/caught up in the moment. You guys tried to warn me and i did not listen, so i understand why people fall for this scam. Let's face it, we could have spent way less $ on other cars for at least X2 the performance and value but we don't...mostly because we still love these cars and want something different. Money really does not factor in.

Maybe the best help possible is to spread the word and ask people to protect themselves and research before pulling the trigger on parts.

Still think it is funny that ion's 4cyl single turbo makes almost twice the HP of milty motors twin turbo v-6 crazy-high dollar / 7 year long build. Well, funny but not surprising......Guessing that the customer does not find it funny though

There are still good shops out there thankfully and even the best ones make mistakes.....but part of what makes them the best is that they own up to it and keep you informed too.....and actually send you what you paid for.

[dbral]

https://www.bbb.org/us/oh/west-carrollton/profile/car-racing-equipment/milzy-motorsports-llc-0322-14905

Just noticed yet another 1 star review from yet another satisfied customer today..........

[dbral]

LOL!!! milty motors sent me an invitation to review a part that I "currently" purchased so i will share my review

Part ordered 2018. Arrived 2021.

Sure, I'll review!! Been a customer here for 6 years now. Still waiting for thousands of dollars of parts ordered almost 6 years ago!! Just AWESOME!!!! This part arrived in 2021 at my current address with awful outgassing pits in the finish and damaged sealing surfaces but at least it was not painted on the internal engine side like another part. HOURS OF FUN removing some of that powdercoat..in the spots where it actually stuck that is. To make things even better, the company falsified one of my invoice details to appear that this part was shipped on 8/11/2023...so I have an opportunity to write this review!!! Do some searches on the web/n-body forums/BBB/youtube and find out what an awesome time you could have with your powdercoated part and your "friends" here at MMS!!! They even offered a used throttle body as a no cost upgrade to the new one I ordered back in 2017!!!! AND STILL HAVE NOT RECEIVED!!! Y'all gonna love it here!!!! Oh, and don't forget to have a very good legal team draw up a contract before you buy anything from here!!! Just part of the fun like getting your father daughter project ruined!!!! GOOD TIMES HERE!! PITTED/DAMAGED/TIME TRAVELING/POWDERCOATED TIMING COVER FOR FOR THE WIN!!!

Actually, milty decided to falsify my invoice info a week ago for the parts sent here on 2021. Trying to hide the fact that they know my current address i assume? Who knows?? It really is this ridiculous folks. They will not correct my invoice either lol... Hope my awesome Timing cover review gets immortalized on the milt motor website...it is "pending review' lol

Still waiting on those parts......

[dbral]

LOL read back thru my "review" and have to admit what i did was childish, but improved my mood greatly, however i pretty much had enough at this point. i understand fully how others feel going through this.

Will post back if i get sent parts or take a trip up there. Maybe gonna pull a KMaffitGAGT (youtube lol) road trip with the GA and see what's up.

[dbral]

Yet another lawsuit for the same.... https://pro.mcohio.org/

My suspicions from the above post have been confirmed. The company claims they have no record of the parts shipped here in 2021. They are asking me for a tracking number so that they can "look into it". lol This same address is also listed in their website "customer info" section and has been confirmed over multiple emails and invoices but they still refuse to ship the parts, send pictures, or give any updates.

i am not a social media user however i will make an exception and edit/compose a youtube clip detailing my experiences with this company when all is said and done. Most likely i will only come back with pictures of the Air Force Museum...if i go up there at all. Is it even worth it at this point?

[dbral]

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=164702

[sleepyalero]

He was definitely slow, i liked his products though. I had a set of his headers. Very well made product.

He had my car for about 6 months to a year i dont recall. Definitely needs to just close shop at this point. All the angry customers and lawsuits aint worth it. Idk why he is still hanging on.

[dbral]

He was definitely slow, i liked his products though. I had a set of his headers. Very well made product.

; ""These headers are considered a custom order, as they are built to order rather than being a stocked item. All custom orders are non-refundable. We are currently working on completing our first batch of production headers (as opposed to the hand-made sets have been making up until now). We anticipate that we will finish this batch in spring 2022.
Wording in the website description circa 2021

"These headers are considered a custom order, as they are built to order rather than being a stocked item. All custom orders are non-refundable. We are currently working on completing our first batch of production headers (as opposed to the hand-made sets have been making up until now). Expect longer than usual lead times, most likely into the multiple months (4-6+) until this process is complete.
Current wording in the website description

I had heard that the old style headers were well made from other customers too. The original fabricator must have been quite talented. The current fabricator, by his own admission, is the owner of the shop who "learned" to tig in 2020. Still do not know what kind of quality the current headers posses as i am still waiting for my now prototype headers basically 6 years later. Told me in 2018 that it would take 2 months and that they were being built to the old spec by the original guy too.

He had my car for about 6 months to a year i dont recall. Definitely needs to just close shop at this point. All the angry customers and lawsuits aint worth it.

Custom performance parts take time and there are a lot of variables. Customers know this and are willing to be patient as long as there are valid reasons holding up the works. That requires good communications.....and actual valid reasons from the business's side of things lol. It also requires that the customer does not allow the company to have all of the balls in their court in the beginning so to speak. Being too trustworthy unfortunately leaves the customer open to be taken advantage of.... Just my .02 based on my experience with this "company" and for the record i'm only upset at myself lol Edit. Customers don't appreciate lies and deception though. A business should be mindful and respect/abide by their own policies. I can see where this could lead to some frustrated customers with hurt feelings for sure because what is a customer's recourse in a situation like this really? There is a way to protect yourself in the beginning for sure but my guess is that this "business" with all of it's pages of fine print, would not do a deal like that. Wottech will, and that speaks volumes to me. It should also speak volumes to any potential customers as well.

Happy you got your car back in a reasonable amount of time and that you got to enjoy it as well. As for the current crop of customers.... i just don't know. Dropped in for a visit last week and the place looks abandoned to me. But sometimes appearances can be deceiving i suppose

Idk why he is still hanging on. i have my suspicions..... Should be confirmed by Dec 1, at least in my case anyway

[dbral]

Update; Some parts have arrived. Still waiting for more parts, about $1700 worth.

Status since Dec.1 on two packages shows "Shipping label created, USPS has not received item" lol. USPS suggested to contact seller. No response as of yet.

[leroBob]

Was it USPS smart post?

[dbral]

No, it is priority mail.