Milzy Motorsports or WOT-TECH?
 

So, it's become obvious that my only two reliable choices in camshafts are milzy and wot-tech. Sooo, which would you guys prefer when the car has a stock 3400? I'm looking at the stage 1 cams from both companies.

Also, I've heard that LS1 and LS6 valvesprings will work with 3400's. Should I look into those, or should I choose something else? Also, will the LS springs require any machining to the heads?

I was planning on getting a tune some how, although i know that milzy states that their stage 1 cam will work with a stock tune.

Everything is stock on the car except for the SLP cat-back, and I figure that it might be pointless to purchase a larger TB since I don't have a ported UIM or LIM. Although, I would like to purchase the ported exhaust manifolds from milzy due to headers costing a fcking arm and a leg.

Basically, the point of this build is to keep the car as close to stock as possible while upping the power by a noticeable mark. That's why I'm looking at the stage 1 cams. The stock cam in the 3400 is too tame. I think it has something like .420 valve lift. The milzy and wot-tech have close to a .500 lift, which is a much nicer number. Plus, there is just enough lift so that I don't have to modify the stock heads.

I can't get on the wot-tech site now. Wtf?

Slp catback? I want to see a video of it! my buddy has slp dual on his trans am and its hella loud I love it.

On to your question... I would recommend ls6 springs and better rods. I was planning on getting ported manifolds as well. I dis research comparing headers to em and from What I understand you get same amount of power but ported manifolds last longer then headers.

Between milzy and wot.. milzy seems to have alot more stuff like race block with forged internals, powder coated motors with Cam options, and a 4t65e tranny conversion kit with stronger internal options. Idk how good service is thru milzy or wot because I've never bought anything from them yet.

When I build my car I'm Probably going with milzy because they have alot more options for our cars it looks like. I'm not saying either company is bad! Just saying.

Also I don't think you need to fabricate anything for the Cam it should be just like an OEM Cam but with more power offered.

I don't know why you would reccomend rods the stock ones should surely suffice for such a mild build.

Anyways Ported exhaust manis may flow more but who knows... I would rather have headwork done first before I started worrying about something as limited in choices as the exhaust side.
As for the valve springs the ls6 springs seem to be the choice but you will need LSX valve seats as well. I'm not sure about retainers though. All and all I would go to Milzy to give a little more money in their pockets to actually keep releasing more things, since they seem to be the only ones actually trying.

It isn't even a close decision IMO, WOT-TECH all the way......you can always do a 3500 top end swap which flows better than a mildly ports 3400 upper end anyways....

I do know that the wot-tech cam offers the higher lift of the 2 choices (not sure about duration...), and naturally I would go with the bigger cam. Unfortunately though, i can't get on wot's site. Soooo, they might be sol :lol:

And remember kwhauck...

We're keeping things basic here. No top end swaps! :p

My site is up and running.

Wasn't there another thread about this? NOT trying to start this up again, but from what I remember reading was that Ben knows his way around a flow bench.

good. goooood...

Milzy > all

He probably means pushrods - custom length pushrods are recommended if not required with any performance camshaft.
It either takes one hell of a build or a something going very wrong to break a stock connecting rod.
Valve lift with the stock cam is .436" on both intake and exhaust.
Your valve springs will depend on what cam you choose.
Manley retainers and locks are of excellent quality.

For all the work of pulling the motor and the expense that comes with changing the cam, may I suggest just buying my motor? Everything's already done for you.....;)
http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32874

I'm just super attached to this one :lol:

Seriously tho... 3000 mile oil changes since new, all maintenance issues addressed, just really really well kept.

I'd lose a nut for this motor (and the car) if it were in danger. :p

So, basically it looks like i'll get...

(fr shur)
- Milzy stage 1 cam (I just checked and the wot-tech street cam is slightly tamer in lift and duration)
- LS6 springs
- LS1 seats (I' konw manwhore said LSX seats, but I think these are what he meant)
- LS1 valve stem seals

(maybee)
- longer pushrods (will the preload from the stock rods be enough, and will the difference in power between stock be enough to justify an extra $150?)
- Manley retainers and keepers (will stock retainers and keepers work for the LS6 springs? $10 versus $90)
- Complete cam install kit (will this be totally necessary or can I get away with the economy kit?)

And Idk why it dosent say, but if the wot tech street/strip cam works on stock heads, that'd be even better. I only bring it up because there is not much difference in the lift and duration from their street cam, which is usable with stock heads.

and fcking wot tech's site is down again...:(

LSx means LS with a number so LS1 LS6 etc


As for power I don't see how it would change however since they are lightweight you take some strain from your valvetrain due to its lighter mass also I believe they are also adjustable therefore you can choose the lift you want out of them

MMS and WOT-Tech are not lighter as far as pushrods go. As far as valvetrain goes, pushrod weight is not nearly the same factor as the weight on the other side of the rocker (valve, retainer, keepers). The stiffer the pushrod, the better. The lovely thing about 60v6s, is the incredibly short pushrod compared to just about every other pushrod engine.

I don't know why you say wot-tech is down, it hasn't been down for a long time. We are on the same server as 60degreev6.com. Check and see if that site is working.

Are the stock pushrods steel or what materiel?


and wot-tech is working fine

Now wot tech is wrking fr me. but only if I use the link through 60degreev6. If I type in the address, I get an error page.

idk why it's f'd up (prob my internet) :rolleyes2:

so mainly the issue is...

- stock retainers and keepers versus manley.
- keep stock pushrods?
- will the wot tech street/strip cam work without head modifications like the street cam?

swapping top ends is more basic than a cam swap, especially if you are going to be changing valves springs and anything else, you might as well swap top ends then.......

but if you are going to do that much work, seriously you should buy matt's motor, and be done with it, that is the easiest and probably cheapest option..

The only cams I sell that require head modification are the race/boost type, XFI lobe cams. You can run over .640 lift on stock heads with the right springs. The race cams need the stiffest spring I have, and those need the seat pressure lowered by increasing the install height. This is done by cutting the seat pockets down on the head. You can run the strip cam with the comp 26986 springs on an otherwise stock head.

Stock retainers and keepers are fine. Manley are closer tolerance, and lighter. The pushrods depend on the lifter preload. There is a difference between what can be ran, and what is best for performance. The mpg, street, and street/strip cam can easily be ran on the stock pushrods, but you will be .020 to .030" short on preload. This means you are giving up duration and lift.

So no matter what company you go with, you will need new pushrods for the best performance.

^^^ that is why you should go with WOT-TECH.....

lolol...


There's is nothing better than getting a big badass explanation from a guru...

Thank you whitev6!

and it looks like ur store will be getting some good "bidness" from me :lol:

so now the list is...

- street/strip cam from wot tech.
- LS6 springs
- LS1 valve seats
- LS1 valve stem seals
- new set of stock retainers and keepers
- longer pushrods (any recommended length whitev6?)
- kit with gaskets and shit for the swap lol (any suggestions?)

Doods, I fcking love u guys. I keep forgeting that I'm not the only one who has the ridiculous need to modify a car that never gets modified. :rolleyes2:

The locks and keepers are used as far as stockers go on my store. They don't wear out so there is no reason to buy more. Pushrods, I measure the cam lobes every time to be sure on the lengths needed. Probably .020" longer.

The complete head install kit
http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/3400-he.../prod_114.html

and the side cover set
http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/complet.../prod_258.html

Those 2 will give you everything you need for a cam install.

Also remember that you will need to do some computer tuning for optimum performance.

^very true^

That's one thing I didn't get right with MMS stage 2 cam, still have stock length pushrods. not sure how much power it's robbing me but the car has never come close to that grand am that ran a 13.99999 with basically the same mods.

Will new heads bolts be necessary? Or will the heads not have to be removed for the install? I only ask because you didn't bring them up.

If your having to ask these questions than I don't really think you are going to be able that far

Yes, you will need new head bolts as well. It is easier to pull the heads to replace the springs, seats, and seals.

I wanna be sure dammit! :lol:

.and what makes you think that I'm doing this all by myself.

I got an experienced mechanic by my side. (my chrissy poo)

Also, i noticed that the kit does not come with a timing chain. Milzy's complete cam intall kit includes one. However, it's short some of the seals. Question is, are all the seals in the wot head gasket necessary for the cam swap? Because if not, I could save a bit and use the milzy kit. So, instead of purchasing the wot kit and not using some of the gaskets and purchasing a seperate timing chain, I could just purchase the milzy kit. Thoughts?

kk...

$366 bucks for the MMS cam and head install kit. $230 for my head and cam install kit. My kit includes metal lower intake gaskets. I don't recommend plastic lower intake gaskets.

The MMS kit includes just a chain, no brand given. I sell the GM 1994-1999 chain kit with both gears for $145. $14 for the chain damper/guide. That's $390 vs $366 and you get a more complete kit with all of the best parts available across the board. All of the stock 00+ GM chains and all 94-present aftermarket chains stretch before 50k miles when using LS6 springs.

Go wit WOT they are real reliable you will not have any regrets buying from WOT and ya metal gaskets are the best the plastic ones will not last long also i would buy something that has a name brand than from some company that u never heard of. I am getting the 3500 competition LIM and UIM from them because they do quality work and have great customer service.

Never heard that before.. good to know.

The main reason I go with Ben is for the customer service. The know-how and awesome parts are the icing on the cake :D

Hopefully with the use of an aftermarket cam :eek: since I'm running LS6 springs on a stock cam. I was going to go with these springs on my build, but the Alero building gods strongly suggested the Comp springs. That will get switched at the rebuild.

What's better for a mild build? the 94-99 chain or the TCE double roller/crank kit?

We're waiting on results of 1 person who had his pre-99 GM timing set cryo-treated - we'll see how it held up un his semi-large cam.
Anything with XFI lobes and stiff valve springs should use the TCE duble roller for durabilty.

Omg this thread is becoming soo good.

Do you guys know how many things I've learned from this thread?

like... a lot... :lol:

Right, with a cam on those LS6 springs. Its all part of the load against the chain that causes it to stretch. Now, I am not talking about it breaking, or even cause problems. It will eventually make a lot of noise, which is bad but thats past 50k miles. Also 50k is not every instance, some are less, some more. Most we will never actually know because it just moves the powerband higher (killing some low end torque, which is how you notice mostly).

Cryotreating should help, as it does on just about everything involved wear. Especially for cylinder walls and brake rotors:) I expect Jon's setup to work for a long time with the 94-99 crytreated chain.

I do my best to help everyone, customers and enthusiasts alike. Wish I had time to work on 60v6 but I am hoping this next year working with a partner will allow me to get some articles/instructions written.

How much would a Cryo job cost? and if it works, which you are 100% correct Ben, Cryotreating helps EVERYTHING although I never heard of it used on a TC.

its cheaper in bulk per item, but I don't have a cost. I will have to see what is local to me after I move.