Milzy Motorsports or WOT-TECH?

[Redog]

How much would a Cryo job cost? and if it works, which you are 100% correct Ben, Cryotreating helps EVERYTHING although I never heard of it used on a TC.

[WhiteV6]

its cheaper in bulk per item, but I don't have a cost. I will have to see what is local to me after I move.

[WhiteV6]

Did you originally install those Felpro gaskets? We have been through this discussion on 60V6 with a GM tech that says the same thing. We both concluded that installation error will kill any lower intake gasket for these motors and since he wasn't the one to do the work, he could not verify it was not from over tightening them. Also, were the bolts coated with loctite? That is a known issue, for them to back out from vibration and cause leaks. This may have been the cause for some of the plastic gasket failures as well.

So the important part is correct installation with the loctite on the bolts.

What does lifter preload have to do with 1/4 mile times?

[WhiteV6]

The newer replacement bolts have the thread locker applied already. It is important to use the correct torque, even for boost. I wouldn't expect 9psi to be a problem for the intake gaskets.

GM has a 2nd revision, that puts metal tabs around the bolt hole near the coolant passage. This is to help prevent over torquing these bolts. Felpro has this revision as well for their plastic gaskets, but they still revised them again after that to give us the metal version.

[Redog]

Those GM gaskets suck.

I did have a set of Fel-Pro got bad on the LIM, however the shop that did the job put RTV around all the water jackets except the port where the leak occured.

If this problem where to happen and I had another car to get back and forth to work, I would have no problem doing this myself. After fixing a leaking injector I can see just how easy doing a LIMG is. You just have to move so much shit to get to it. The only 2 things that worry me is the pushrods and using RTV.

[MilzyZ34]

someone mentioned not being able to run the time that tim did, and stated they though their problem was their pushrods being too short.

i've never installed fel-pro gaskets on a 3400.

for the bolts, i just use the new bolts that GM supplies with the intake gasket kit.

[kwhauck]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

someone mentioned not being able to run the time that tim did, and stated they though their problem was their pushrods being too short.

This

Originally Posted by jackal2000

That's one thing I didn't get right with MMS stage 2 cam, still have stock length pushrods. not sure how much power it's robbing me but the car has never come close to that grand am that ran a 13.99999 with basically the same mods.

So what is his problem then, IYO

[widbyj]

If pushrods are too short you will not get proper lift/flow. Hydraulic lifters can only do so much, possibly not enough for this situation (plus they might not be working properly).

[kwhauck]

Originally Posted by widbyj

If pushrods are too short you will not get proper lift/flow. Hydraulic lifters can only do so much, possibly not enough for this situation (plus they might not be working properly).

I understand that........but......

I want to here Milzy's answer on why Jackal hasn't gone as fast.....

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by kwhauck

I understand that........but......

I want to here Milzy's answer on why Jackal hasn't gone as fast.....

what are his mods, and do you have a copy of the time slip?

[jackal2000]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

what are his mods, and do you have a copy of the time slip?

I have your stage 2 cam and heads, your chromoly pushrods, 28lb/hr injectors, TOG headers, 2.5" cat back exhaust, ported manifolds, 62mm billet throttle body, under drive crank pulley, phenolic manifold spacer, cold air intake. car made 187whp and 187lb/ft and one time ran a 14.9 quarter mile at 93mph. all other passes have been 15+ seconds.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by jackal2000

I have your stage 2 cam and heads, your chromoly pushrods, 28lb/hr injectors, TOG headers, 2.5" cat back exhaust, ported manifolds, 62mm billet throttle body, under drive crank pulley, phenolic manifold spacer, cold air intake. car made 187whp and 187lb/ft and one time ran a 14.9 quarter mile at 93mph. all other passes have been 15+ seconds.

throttle body is holding you back a little bit, even when i designed the stage 2 cam way back in winter 2004, I designed it for a 65mm tb, with the 65 flowing around 10% more than the 62. When we dyno cars over at Dynotune Motorsports in Columbus, the stage 2 cars almost always make the same numbers. a 65mm tb'd stage 2 package car will make 195-200+ whp with stock exhaust manifolds. headers usually add around 10-15whp or so, depending what they are. 187 with headers sounds low. Have you done a compression test? what plugs are you running? gap? what pcm?

as for the slip, I was looking for numbers like 1/8ET and mph, 60ft time, etc.

not sure where you're located, but if you wanted to bring your car into the shop, I'm sure we could find the problem and have your car running a whole lot better.

[jackal2000]

dayton is a long way from dc, but could possibly make a weekend trip in the spring. i am fairly certain a compression test was done after the motor was assembled in september 2006 and the results were normal. plugs are ac delco iridium 1 range colder than stock, gapped at .045. i have been tuning the pcm with dhp equipment. sprucegagt helped me out initially and i have had 2 experienced tuners tweak it over the years. i have had no trouble at all with the motor, it runs strong i just never got the results i wanted.

and i misspoke earlier, it did run a 14.9 twice. the middle slip has troubled me since it was handed to me after the run. i know i did not let off the throttle early, and the fact that it never went that fast again kinda backs that up.

[MilzyZ34]

yeah, that middle slip looks out of place. That's a very good 60 ft for a n-body car, and honestly, i think you'd need atleast drag radials to do that well of a 60ft. If I had to guess, I'd say it looks like someone else's run. I could be wrong, but it's so much better of a launch, that you should have went around 14.0-14.25 on that one.

I know DC is a long way from here, but I know we'd figure the problem out if you wanted to bring it in. Otherwise, if you wanted to I could have you do some tests, and based off that info and hopefully you could have access to a wide-band, I could figure out the problem and send you a pcm or something if that's the issue.

[Lucalare]

I don't get it, it looks like the middle slip should have been the fastest quarter mile, not the slowest. Maybe the other two screwed up?

[xXManwhoreXx]

Well shoot what about blowing out spark than

[jackal2000]

the car only has random misfires at idle due to the cam. as soon the throttle opens it smooths out. why should i think the spark is blowing out if the car is not missing?

Sorry for askng the obvious jackal, but have you scanned your car?
I recall it sounded pretty healthy at ASS a few years back, but any KR?

[jackal2000]

Originally Posted by mfuller

Sorry for askng the obvious jackal, but have you scanned your car?
I recall it sounded pretty healthy at ASS a few years back, but any KR?

it's been a while since I scanned it. I remember seeing a small amount of kr (no more than 2*) during those runs I posted but that was many tunes and years ago. the most recent dyno tune (this past spring IIRC) showed no kr and unfortunately I haven't been back to the track. I think we ended up adding 2-3* of timing at WOT. it is very possible that more power could be squeezed out of the motor via tuning, but I have exhausted my local resources in that department. I don't have a wideband o2 installed on it so there is only so much tuning I can do on the road. Mitch and Ken witnessed the car at raceway park in late 2009. It ran 15.2's all day.

In March I'll be selling the car to my little brother who lives in northeast Ohio so I may split the cost of having him bring the car down to Dayton so Mike can take a look at it.

[MMGT1]

I got 5 bucks says your trans tune holds the key to the extra second you are falling short of. Without seeing it that is just a guess, but I bet ya dollars to donuts that I'm not far off the mark.
Now if your manual, I'd like to see how your torque tables are set up and if the proper DTC's have been removed from your tune. I'd expect a 14.3-14.2 from your build at around 98mph. If you have HP Tuners I could shoot you a couple of different tunes to try out